SLS/R197/C197 AMG: RENNtech SLS Products and Development
03-28-2011, 03:50 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Now that is a good chunk of power gain from just changing wheels 
03-28-2011, 07:47 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Actually he was talking about your brother since he believes he can gain nearly 70 hp using only an ECU tune from a naturally aspirated engine 
I see you're still burning.... it's okay, it'll take a while to settle in
I see you're still burning.... it's okay, it'll take a while to settle in
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03-29-2011, 03:23 PM
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03-29-2011, 03:39 PM
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I actually said the wheels maybe good for 10 hp. I did not say bhp. It is usually implied that weight savings (especially in rotational mass) frees up hp to the wheels not at the crank. A very impressive example was shown one time by Evosport when they dynoed the CLK Black Series before and after the use of Dyma's carbon fiber wheels and showed 24 hp gains at the wheels Now that is a good chunk of power gain from just changing wheels
Now that is a good chunk of power gain from just changing wheels
03-29-2011, 03:41 PM
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03-29-2011, 04:33 PM
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LOL... one can tell when a person runs out of ideas, they resort to personal attacks. It's okay though, I think you can't help it Einstein
Wow... I think you missed the point of my post completely
. Let me spell it out for you: do NOT rely on a dyno sheet that is provided from the company in question because dyno sheets can be manipulated. It happens all the time. The dyno operator can add a correction factor or dyno in different conditions in order to show pretty much whatever gains he/she likes.
LOL.... I take it you don't know how dynos work. Here is my thread where my car made over 500 whp with 100% stock configuration:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tang-dyno.html
I knew immediately the dyno was incorrect and there has to be some type of caliberation issue with the machine or there was some type of problem with the correction factor because my car can NOT dyno at 500 hp to the wheels. However, that does not prevent a dyno operator from producing a high (or low) dyno sheet. This should show you that any dyno operator can produce any dyno sheet they want. You just manipulate the correction factor before and after the runs. This has been happening in the M3 world for a long time and every couple of months you'll find a big debate/scandale about it in one of the forums.
The question was not whether they had twin turbo system for all the models. The question was this: if they were such a big power tuner, then why don't they offer a LOT of mods for the rest of the 63 line up? They lack presence in the rest of the 63 models. And even with the ML63 twin turbo system, it can NOT be ordered in the US even through Brabus directly, and I'm guessing it probably can not be ordered in many other countries as well, which means those customers would be left with a tune + sport cats for $20k
Oh okay.... I get it now.... are you a Middle Eastern who got butt-hurt when you thought someone was screwing you?
When you feel you have to resort to that level, it usually means you ran out of intellectual ideas. Anybody can get into a pissing contest to get the thread closed or two members banned
I like how you try to dodge points that you know you can't answer.... it became part of the discussion and I answered your question. But if you want to leave this issue aside, no problem
I can't believe I just read that last sentence... you are making very good progress Yes.... customers should be critical and careful before believing any claims by any company no matter how good the company's reputation is. The magazine/website which claims that MKB had an exhaust mod along with an ECU tune and air filters must have gotten that information from somewhere. They didn't just invent it. They probably asked MKB or one of their employees/representatives, and they told them what was installed on the car. I know that does not prove what was actually on the car and it also does not disprove it. However, it does raise a reasonable enough doubt to start checking into the details more carefully.
Brabus, as one of the big German tuners, is (unfortunately) limited in their product line; they tend to be way overpriced, and takes a very long time to deliver a product.
Yeah... I would like to see those photos And if RENNtech was so good to you in tuning your E55, why would they all of a sudden be bad when tuning your 63?
LOL... this comment shows that you definitely were not involved in the "tuning arena" for 10 years
First of all, Evosport does not tune files, they actually use Powerchip for tuning and Powerchip is Australian. Also, MHP does not tune files locally, they also use a German tuner. So none of them are American. You must've been very involved in the "tuning arena" for a very long time to know this information
What I was trying to explain to you was that eventually every tuning company will see other company's tuning files. Consider this hypothetical situation: lets say someone here in the US purchased an MKB tune for a C63. Then after a while that customer became unhappy with the tune or maybe got bored with it and wanted something new. So the customer goes to Powerchip to re-tune his car. Well... guess what? Powerchip now has a MKB tune. They have the ECU at their control and can read out the file. This is all hypothetically speaking of course. Anyways, then the customer doesn't like the new tune so he goes to Kleemann for a new tune. Guess what? Now Kleemann has a Powerchip tune. Then the customer goes back to MKB. Guess what? Now MKB has a Kleemann tune. Any competent tuner can read out any file and see what changes were made. Tuning is NOT a secret. The top tuners modify (mostly) the same parameters. Yes there are differences, but they are much more common than they are different.
I started my discussion about Brabus in response to this post by Nimir Qatar. Here it is quoted in case you missed it:
He claimed one tuner was better than the other. So I tried to explain that Brabus maybe better for a couple of models, but for most of the Mercedes lineup, his statement is incorrect. Also, the prices he gave for RENNtech were also in correct. RENNtech charges $3500 for ECU tune and the gains are 30 hp NOT 20 hp. I think he confused the long-tube header information with the ECU. Anyways, then (all of a sudden) you budged in here and started defending Brabus and crying about it and tried to turn the discussion into only the 63 models that Brabus twin turbos and tried to eliminate one of the best and most important engines that Mercedes/AMG developed: the 55k
I know you want it to be off topic because you can't answer it. However, it is on topic and it was part of the discussion about tuners
Oh my God.... I just stated that point in the comment you quoted. Can you read? Of course I know that MKB has a 1000 hp Black Series. Go back and read what you quoted me. Here is what I said:
But here is what you still don't realize. RENNtech's CL65 (which is only 800 hp) beat MKB's Black Series (which is 1000 hp) in the 1/4 mile. Not to mention that RENNtech's car was bigger, heavier, older, so it should of lost to MKB big time. However that was not the case. I would be pissed if I spend all that money for the MKB 1000 hp package and then lose to a RENNtech CL65.
Here is RENNtech's CL65 1/4 mile race video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyUYI2sdJSI
In comparison, MKB's 1000 hp Black Series only ran 11.1 despite having more power and costing $170,000
Wow... I think you missed the point of my post completely
. Let me spell it out for you: do NOT rely on a dyno sheet that is provided from the company in question because dyno sheets can be manipulated. It happens all the time. The dyno operator can add a correction factor or dyno in different conditions in order to show pretty much whatever gains he/she likes.LOL.... I take it you don't know how dynos work. Here is my thread where my car made over 500 whp with 100% stock configuration:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tang-dyno.html
I knew immediately the dyno was incorrect and there has to be some type of caliberation issue with the machine or there was some type of problem with the correction factor because my car can NOT dyno at 500 hp to the wheels. However, that does not prevent a dyno operator from producing a high (or low) dyno sheet. This should show you that any dyno operator can produce any dyno sheet they want. You just manipulate the correction factor before and after the runs. This has been happening in the M3 world for a long time and every couple of months you'll find a big debate/scandale about it in one of the forums.
The question was not whether they had twin turbo system for all the models. The question was this: if they were such a big power tuner, then why don't they offer a LOT of mods for the rest of the 63 line up? They lack presence in the rest of the 63 models. And even with the ML63 twin turbo system, it can NOT be ordered in the US even through Brabus directly, and I'm guessing it probably can not be ordered in many other countries as well, which means those customers would be left with a tune + sport cats for $20k
Oh okay.... I get it now.... are you a Middle Eastern who got butt-hurt when you thought someone was screwing you?
When you feel you have to resort to that level, it usually means you ran out of intellectual ideas. Anybody can get into a pissing contest to get the thread closed or two members banned
I like how you try to dodge points that you know you can't answer.... it became part of the discussion and I answered your question. But if you want to leave this issue aside, no problem
I can't believe I just read that last sentence... you are making very good progress
Yes.... customers should be critical and careful before believing any claims by any company no matter how good the company's reputation is. The magazine/website which claims that MKB had an exhaust mod along with an ECU tune and air filters must have gotten that information from somewhere. They didn't just invent it. They probably asked MKB or one of their employees/representatives, and they told them what was installed on the car. I know that does not prove what was actually on the car and it also does not disprove it. However, it does raise a reasonable enough doubt to start checking into the details more carefully.Brabus, as one of the big German tuners, is (unfortunately) limited in their product line; they tend to be way overpriced, and takes a very long time to deliver a product.
Yeah... I would like to see those photos
And if RENNtech was so good to you in tuning your E55, why would they all of a sudden be bad when tuning your 63? LOL... this comment shows that you definitely were not involved in the "tuning arena" for 10 years
First of all, Evosport does not tune files, they actually use Powerchip for tuning and Powerchip is Australian. Also, MHP does not tune files locally, they also use a German tuner. So none of them are American. You must've been very involved in the "tuning arena" for a very long time to know this information
What I was trying to explain to you was that eventually every tuning company will see other company's tuning files. Consider this hypothetical situation: lets say someone here in the US purchased an MKB tune for a C63. Then after a while that customer became unhappy with the tune or maybe got bored with it and wanted something new. So the customer goes to Powerchip to re-tune his car. Well... guess what? Powerchip now has a MKB tune. They have the ECU at their control and can read out the file. This is all hypothetically speaking of course. Anyways, then the customer doesn't like the new tune so he goes to Kleemann for a new tune. Guess what? Now Kleemann has a Powerchip tune. Then the customer goes back to MKB. Guess what? Now MKB has a Kleemann tune. Any competent tuner can read out any file and see what changes were made. Tuning is NOT a secret. The top tuners modify (mostly) the same parameters. Yes there are differences, but they are much more common than they are different.
I started my discussion about Brabus in response to this post by Nimir Qatar. Here it is quoted in case you missed it:
He claimed one tuner was better than the other. So I tried to explain that Brabus maybe better for a couple of models, but for most of the Mercedes lineup, his statement is incorrect. Also, the prices he gave for RENNtech were also in correct. RENNtech charges $3500 for ECU tune and the gains are 30 hp NOT 20 hp. I think he confused the long-tube header information with the ECU. Anyways, then (all of a sudden) you budged in here and started defending Brabus and crying about it and tried to turn the discussion into only the 63 models that Brabus twin turbos and tried to eliminate one of the best and most important engines that Mercedes/AMG developed: the 55k
I know you want it to be off topic because you can't answer it. However, it is on topic and it was part of the discussion about tuners
Oh my God.... I just stated that point in the comment you quoted. Can you read? Of course I know that MKB has a 1000 hp Black Series. Go back and read what you quoted me. Here is what I said:
But here is what you still don't realize. RENNtech's CL65 (which is only 800 hp) beat MKB's Black Series (which is 1000 hp) in the 1/4 mile. Not to mention that RENNtech's car was bigger, heavier, older, so it should of lost to MKB big time. However that was not the case. I would be pissed if I spend all that money for the MKB 1000 hp package and then lose to a RENNtech CL65.
Here is RENNtech's CL65 1/4 mile race video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyUYI2sdJSI
In comparison, MKB's 1000 hp Black Series only ran 11.1 despite having more power and costing $170,000
jacob502 =
seriously though, i never realized how limited brabus's line for most of the 63s was until I read this post then went to their website
Last edited by ExtremeSpeed5; 03-29-2011 at 04:36 PM.
03-30-2011, 03:53 AM
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By the way if you are not convinced that MKB can tune up to 638 Hp, fine that's completely up to you.
But here is the thing. Other tuners offer better power increase than Renntech, such as the following:
OE Tuning: 615 Hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will pull you up to 635-645.
RENM: 610 HP only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-640 hp
MHP: 615 hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-645 hp.
PP-Performance: 600 hp tuning, removing cats or installing headers gives upto 630 hp.
Now let's see Renntech, hmmmmm tuning only 593 hp
and costs $3495, more expensive than others and less power.
Last edited by Nimir Qatar; 03-30-2011 at 04:23 AM.
03-30-2011, 04:38 AM
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It wasn't me how started the fire. The discussion was between me, you, and my brother. Then came someone from nowhere and started insulting. So I guess you should rethink of who should be banned.
By the way if you are not convinced that MKB can tune up to 638 Hp, fine that's completely up to you.
But here is the thing. Other tuners offer better power increase than Renntech, such as the following:
OE Tuning: 615 Hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will pull you up to 635-645.
RENM: 610 HP only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-640 hp
MHP: 615 hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-645 hp.
PP-Performance: 600 hp tuning, removing cats or installing headers gives upto 630 hp.
Now let's see Renntech, hmmmmm tuning only 593 hp
and costs $3495, more expensive than others and less power.
By the way if you are not convinced that MKB can tune up to 638 Hp, fine that's completely up to you.
But here is the thing. Other tuners offer better power increase than Renntech, such as the following:
OE Tuning: 615 Hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will pull you up to 635-645.
RENM: 610 HP only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-640 hp
MHP: 615 hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-645 hp.
PP-Performance: 600 hp tuning, removing cats or installing headers gives upto 630 hp.
Now let's see Renntech, hmmmmm tuning only 593 hp
and costs $3495, more expensive than others and less power.
One More thing I wanted to add.
No disrespect but Renntech Tuning is a joke. Their ECU is miles away from MHP, MKB, or pp-performance, and other German Tuners. Their reflash is so laughable. Renntech doesnt raise shift points, improve ignition, and their improved throttle response is not even noticeable, what's worse nothing is done about time delay
For goodness sake look at their C63. ECU reflash only 517 HP, Wooooow very advanced.
03-30-2011, 11:07 AM
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in Renntechs defense, they could get more out of it, though the streetability factor comes in, and the fact most MB dealerships will warranty a vehicle with Renntech. I seen a video of the MHP vehicle, it doesn't look too much as a daily driver anymore... at least reliably. It was the vehicle that did the fast quarter mile on drag times. I am not saying that one is better than the other, but I am saying when all the 3 letter tuners have gone broke or have been sued penniless, Renntech will still be around. I am not even saying that people care about a warranty... I am just keeping it real.
and the 10hp gain on wheels comment... pretty funny, but it just goes to show that people take things to heart or believe them because it was posted on the internet. I wish it was all true... but I like to keep it a bit real.
and the 10hp gain on wheels comment... pretty funny, but it just goes to show that people take things to heart or believe them because it was posted on the internet. I wish it was all true... but I like to keep it a bit real.
03-30-2011, 12:27 PM
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03-30-2011, 12:53 PM
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'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
renntech
All I know is my Renntech SLK55 has been without any problems for over 70k miles now.
Could you maybe get a few more horse out of a Supercharger kit? Maybe, but in reality you wouldn't be able to get it to the ground.
I'll stick with a tuner that is reliable vs one that has the most HP. Honestly, we all know how much of a pain it is to get these massive HP cars to put it down on the road.
Could you maybe get a few more horse out of a Supercharger kit? Maybe, but in reality you wouldn't be able to get it to the ground.
I'll stick with a tuner that is reliable vs one that has the most HP. Honestly, we all know how much of a pain it is to get these massive HP cars to put it down on the road.
03-30-2011, 03:53 PM
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All I know is my Renntech SLK55 has been without any problems for over 70k miles now.
Could you maybe get a few more horse out of a Supercharger kit? Maybe, but in reality you wouldn't be able to get it to the ground.
I'll stick with a tuner that is reliable vs one that has the most HP. Honestly, we all know how much of a pain it is to get these massive HP cars to put it down on the road.
Could you maybe get a few more horse out of a Supercharger kit? Maybe, but in reality you wouldn't be able to get it to the ground.
I'll stick with a tuner that is reliable vs one that has the most HP. Honestly, we all know how much of a pain it is to get these massive HP cars to put it down on the road.
But what do you mean by reliability?
03-30-2011, 07:03 PM
#66
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for instance, someone tried supercharging a 550... and engine fail.
Renntech on the other hand avoided it and offered an expensive engine tune with minimal gains. However the few people I know that has had the S550 tune notice the throttle response over the hp gains, are happy with it, and it has been problem free.
I work hand in hand with the MB dealer across the street on a weekly basis, the owner went with an ECU tune from a local tuner who hired an ex-employee of Renntech and pretty much plagarized their tunes... I said pretty much, as the mans vehicle had a check engine light on. remedy... flash to factory, and send ECU off to Renntech.
Further the way it was presented to the owner was that it would be half the cost of the Renntech tune. smoke and mirrors aside, in the long run you get what you pay for. some sacrifice money for the ability to drive worry free, some pay for HP gains that push the envelope or mechanical integrity of the vehicle not worrying about longevity of the vehicle.
Thankfully we all have choices, sometimes common sense is put aside.
Renntech on the other hand avoided it and offered an expensive engine tune with minimal gains. However the few people I know that has had the S550 tune notice the throttle response over the hp gains, are happy with it, and it has been problem free.
I work hand in hand with the MB dealer across the street on a weekly basis, the owner went with an ECU tune from a local tuner who hired an ex-employee of Renntech and pretty much plagarized their tunes... I said pretty much, as the mans vehicle had a check engine light on. remedy... flash to factory, and send ECU off to Renntech.
Further the way it was presented to the owner was that it would be half the cost of the Renntech tune. smoke and mirrors aside, in the long run you get what you pay for. some sacrifice money for the ability to drive worry free, some pay for HP gains that push the envelope or mechanical integrity of the vehicle not worrying about longevity of the vehicle.
Thankfully we all have choices, sometimes common sense is put aside.
03-30-2011, 08:19 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Oh and he also claimed to have been involved in the "tuning arena for over 10 years" while at the same time posting that he didn't really care about the 55k engine - one of the most mod friendly high performance engines Mercedes/AMG ever developed
Then he couldn't respond to my question of what else Brabus offered for the other 63 models besides tune and sport cats: E63, C63, CLS63, S63, CL63, etc... Here is Brabus's website if you don't know the answer http://www.brabus.com/en/raster.php. Oh I almost forgot.... somewhere in there he implied that there was no way dyno sheets could be manipulated, so I posted up a link to a thread showing dyno sheets of my stock E63 putting down 500+ hp at the wheels (almost 600 hp at the crank) incorrectly. I guess he couldn't respond to that post, he just skipped it.... yes dyno graphs can be manipulated - very easily at that Oh and I almost forgot.... he said he would not post here again but he just couldn't resist In my opinion, Brabus maybe a good tuner for a few models and they sure do some of the best "cosmetic" upgrades and engine swaps, but for the entire 55k model lineup and for the entire 63 model line up (except for ML and SLS), they offer limited upgrades - and that is NOT good for a company as big and as respectable as Brabus.
you'll see that I never said it could not be done or that MKB could NEVER do it. I clearly said that I am very critical that nearly 70 hp can be gained (safely) from just an ECU tune (91 or 93 octane) especially from a Naturally aspirated engine that is so highly tuned - and that direct customers of MKB should be even more critical of such claims than I am.But here is the thing. Other tuners offer better power increase than Renntech, such as the following:
OE Tuning: 615 Hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will pull you up to 635-645.
RENM: 610 HP only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-640 hp
MHP: 615 hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-645 hp.
PP-Performance: 600 hp tuning, removing cats or installing headers gives upto 630 hp.
OE Tuning: 615 Hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will pull you up to 635-645.
RENM: 610 HP only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-640 hp
MHP: 615 hp only tuning, remove cats or install headers that will give 635-645 hp.
PP-Performance: 600 hp tuning, removing cats or installing headers gives upto 630 hp.
And what's worse, is that you proved your brother wrong in the process If you don't realize it, here is that point again: I posted that most of the top tuners usually fall within 10 to 15 hp from each other. Then your brother replied here saying that it was all BS. Well guess what? Using the figures you posted above for an ECU tune-only, it seems that:- RENM is 10 hp away from PP-Performance
- RENM is 5 hp away from OE Tuning
- MHP is 5 hp away from RENM
- OE Tuning is 0 hp away from MHP
- RENNtech is 7 hp away from PP-Performance
- RENNtech is 17 hp away from MHP
To add to the humiliation, Brabus offers a tune-only upgrade here in the U.S. for the SLS, which raises the power up to 600 hp (according to their representative this is american hp rating NOT European). This means...
- Brabus is 0 hp away from PP-Performance
- Brabus is 10 hp away from RENM
- Brabus is 7 hp away from RENNtech
Try to average out some of the differences in hp ratings, and see if the difference is within 10 to 15 hp or not
You just owned your brother.... very embarrassing Also, if all of the top respected tuners you listed bring up the power to an average of 610 hp, why would you believe that MKB can add nearly 30 hp on top of all those top-quality tuners?
Do they know something that all the other top-rated tuners don't know or are they using magic juice? LOL... I'm not saying they can't, but I'm saying it is very suspicious and should be looked at very critically.Double Ownage in one post anyone?
This is too easy....Here is their website by the way in case you're too lazy to look it up...
http://www.pp-performance.de/slsamg420kwv1.htm
One More thing I wanted to add.
No disrespect but Renntech Tuning is a joke. Their ECU is miles away from MHP, MKB, or pp-performance, and other German Tuners. Their reflash is so laughable. Renntech doesnt raise shift points, improve ignition, and their improved throttle response is not even noticeable, what's worse nothing is done about time delay
For goodness sake look at their C63. ECU reflash only 517 HP, Wooooow very advanced.
No disrespect but Renntech Tuning is a joke. Their ECU is miles away from MHP, MKB, or pp-performance, and other German Tuners. Their reflash is so laughable. Renntech doesnt raise shift points, improve ignition, and their improved throttle response is not even noticeable, what's worse nothing is done about time delay
For goodness sake look at their C63. ECU reflash only 517 HP, Wooooow very advanced.
You don't think light-weight wheels free up horsepower? LOL.... Brabus provides wheels that are 12% less than stock and nearly every performance company in the world provides very-light forged wheels to free-up horsepower
Also, Evosport must be retards for posting a dyno of before and after the Dymag wheels and showing 24 hp gains
Last edited by MB_Forever; 03-31-2011 at 04:19 AM.
03-30-2011, 08:58 PM
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Okay, you just proved one of my points retard And what's worse, is that you proved your brother wrong in the process If you don't realize it, here is that point again: I posted that most of the top tuners usually fall around 10 to 15 hp from each other. Then your brother replied here that it was all BS. Well guess what? Using the figures you posted above for an ECU tune-only, it seems that:
- RENM is 10 hp away from PP-Performance
- RENM is 5 hp away from OE Tuning
- MHP is 5 hp away from RENM
- OE Tuning is 0 hp away from MHP- RENNtech is 7 hp away from PP-Performance
- RENNtech is 17 hp away from MHP
To add to the humiliation, Brabus offers a tune-only upgrade here in the U.S. for the SLS, which raises the power up to 600 hp (according to their representative this is american hp rating NOT European). This means...
- Brabus is 0 hp away from PP-Performance
- Brabus is 10 hp away from RENM
- Brabus is 7 hp away from RENNtech
Try to average out some of the differences in hp ratings, and see if the difference is within 10 to 15 hp or not You just owned yourself bro.... very embarrassing
And what's worse, is that you proved your brother wrong in the process If you don't realize it, here is that point again: I posted that most of the top tuners usually fall around 10 to 15 hp from each other. Then your brother replied here that it was all BS. Well guess what? Using the figures you posted above for an ECU tune-only, it seems that:- RENM is 10 hp away from PP-Performance
- RENM is 5 hp away from OE Tuning
- MHP is 5 hp away from RENM
- OE Tuning is 0 hp away from MHP- RENNtech is 7 hp away from PP-Performance
- RENNtech is 17 hp away from MHP
To add to the humiliation, Brabus offers a tune-only upgrade here in the U.S. for the SLS, which raises the power up to 600 hp (according to their representative this is american hp rating NOT European). This means...
- Brabus is 0 hp away from PP-Performance
- Brabus is 10 hp away from RENM
- Brabus is 7 hp away from RENNtech
Try to average out some of the differences in hp ratings, and see if the difference is within 10 to 15 hp or not
You just owned yourself bro.... very embarrassing
04-01-2011, 06:36 PM
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2011 Mercedes Benz SLS AMG
04-04-2011, 03:13 PM
#71
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