MB_Forever

I finally took my E63 to a local dyno shop today to get it dynoed for the first time. The shop has the latest and greatest Mustang Dyno with all options, latest software, and many features. Anyways, the results were very confusing.....

First run, we set the dyno to "dynojet mode" (which I guess is also called "inertia" mode) and dynoed in 5th gear. The car pulled 503 whp and 427 wtq. Of course, the numbers were completely off......



Second run, we use the regular Mustang Dyno mode but still in 5th gear. The car dynos at 507 whp and 429 wtq. Again, the numbers are not only wrong, but were actually worse than the previous run.

At this point, we stopped to diagnose the machine and try and figure out what was going wrong.... The technician re-calibrated the dyno and even called a Mustang Dyno technical rep who logged into their network and made sure everything is fine.

Third run, we are still in Mustang Dyno mode and still also in 5th gear, and again the car dynos at 510 whp and 431 wtq. The graph looks almost identical to the one posted above. Looking at the charts, we noticed that each of the runs we did were too long (38 seconds) and somehow we were hitting the speed limiter at around 185 mph slightly before the 7000 rpm limit in 5th gear.

At this point, I start getting frustrated as we can't get an accurate reading from this machine but I give it a couple of more tries.....

Fourth run, the machine is still in Mustang Dyno mode but we tried it in 4th gear and made it only a 10 to 12 second run. And this is where the numbers start to look more reasonable: 440 whp and 394 wtq.

Here is the graph for that run......



The numbers still seemed a little high, as I was expecting to make only 410 to 420 on a dynojet and even lower numbers on a Mustang dyno. So we made 2 more pulls and the numbers were between 435 to 443 whp.

We tried the 1/4 mile run feature a couple of times and we got these numbers: 11.994@117.4 with a 1.78 60' time and 12.13 @ 116.8 with a 1.82 60' time. The fastest my car has gone on the track was at 12.21 @ 115.x mph and I believe 60' time was 1.87 (but that was at 75 F and 1500 ft DA).

We talked to 3 different technicians from Mustang Dyno and apparently they couldn't find anything wrong with the dyno machine yet. They also said, they were helping the shop dyno tune a drag car for some official race last week and numbers were dead on accurate (yeah right..... ). Anyways, they will look into why 5th gear is giving incorrect numbers and they'll give me a call later next week...... I'm not really sure what could be causing this? Does anybody know?

Can a long dyno run or wrong gear cause the E63s to read as high as 500 whp on a Mustang Dyno?

Oh and by the way, all numbers were weather corrected. Uncorrected numbers were slightly higher. The temperature was between 64 to 68 F today during the dyno sessions.

Max.H

5th gear? Why not 4th? I think they are sampling the run way too long. Should not take a long time. You want to make a run using intertia mode. NO LOAD!!

The mustang has a simple setup procedure that takes a few seconds. How did they get tach signal? through obd2 port? or right off one of the coils No need to recalibrate the machine. I'm sure its fine. Sounds like "possible" user error. Once you get it down, it's a walk in the park.

I dynoed several AMG's on the same type of dyno without any issues. Like serg's SL55 and psk's E55. They all made what they were suppose to given the conditions. Not sure what happened on your runs.

1/4 looks to be spot on as they claim. (accurate within 1 tenth of a second) I seen some cars get crazy 60 foots, resulting in great et's. But they cannot duplicate on a real track due to varying track conditions. It's a great way to measure your progress and a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing Mo!

c32AMG-DTM

4th is the best gear for your 5-spd E55. 5th is the best option (if possible) for the 7-spd E63.

MB_Forever

5th gear is the 1:1 gear for the E63, so I figured it would give us more accurate results

Inertia mode gave us numbers that were way too high, so we had to switch to the other mode.....

He did not touch any coils, it was all through OBDII scanner..... Should we have gotten the tach reading from one of the coils? Is it more accurate?

Why does a longer run give incorrect results? I've never really heard of that before

All the runs that were short, gave "okay" results, but longer runs were completely out of wack..... the car does NOT make 500 to the tires. What makes things even more strange is that the 1/4 mile feature gave pretty darn close results

c32AMG-DTM

MB_Forever,

Thanks for sharing all of your data. It really is intriguing... after some of the recent threads about getting weird results with Mustang Dynos, I'm not sure I'd use it as a measurement tool (IMHO) - which I never would've known had the MBW community not shared their findings; did the shop you went to frequently dyno MB's, or was yours one of their first?

It sounds like a Mustang dyno can truly be set-up to give whatever numbers the tech/owner wants to see... the degree to which results can be altered/fudged now makes me cautious of Mustang Dynos.

chiromikey

user error. the 1/4mile gave proper results because the machine sets all the run parameters. the other results are skewed because the operator sets the parameters.

don't worry, at least it has nothing to do with your car. give him some time to learn his new machine and try it again.

MB_Forever

But according to him, there is not much to set..... he gets the load numbers from a PDF sheet provided directly from Mustant Dyno corporate, which they get based on specs obtained directly from Mercedes. I told him maybe you messed up on some settings, so then he showed me all the things he can set, and it was only a couple of things: max speed, vehicle weight, etc....

Also, why were we getting more realistic results when the run was 10 to 12 seconds vs 40 seconds? What's the difference? The reading was off by 100 whp....

What's funny is that he says most people stay here and argue with me because their cars made much less hp on my dyno than they ran else where while you're arguing with me because you think your car made more hp than expected. It's a joke....

Is Dyno Dynamics the same way? Should I bother finding one and trying it or should I just find a dyno jet?

chiromikey

i've honestly never had a problem with either dd or mustang. both of the local machines i use and trust (because of the operators) read within 2% of each other at any given time!

either their machine is calibrated wrong or there is some sort of user error and since it's a new machine i'd suspect the latter. who knows, it could be as stupid as him haiving his coffee mug sitting right next to the ambient conditions sensors!

MHP

Mo,
That's what you get with MDs, inconsistancy. They are fine to tune on (we have one in Columbus) but if you're looking for before/after mod numbers find a DJ.
Pulls in 5th gear with MDs are long no question, but they should still be more accurate given the 1:1 gearing. Stefario ran his MHP tuned C63 on a MD and netted 443rw SAE in 5th gear, as you can see by the vid it's a long pull: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...xperience.html

AMS Performance

I agree, If you want consistency with a loading dyno Dyno Dynamics is the only way to go, plus its more accurate. To find a DD dyno near you, use their dyno locator:

http://www.dyno.com.au/dyno/controller/locator

juicee63

Mo your car is strong, very well could dyno in the 430's..and 400 rwtq. the 500 reading is likely what your car produces w/o rolling resistance calibrated correctly. Did you see what they put as a weight?

Also you did multiple runs and the car should have dropped off a bit after heating up?

great details as usual man,

nrgy

Sorry to stray a bit off topic, but when using a Dyno Dynamics or any dyno for that matter, which option is the best to use? Just looking at a local dyno shop, they have these packages to choose from:

Single baseline pull w/printout $40.00
Three baseline pulls w/ printout $70.00
Three baseline pulls w/ printout, Wideband o2 and MAP/BOOST ref. $85.00
Install wideband o2 Bung and Cap(stainless steel) $45.00

hooleyboy

Mustang Dyno fail because of user error. Dyno Jets have no Load and its all based on how fast you can spin a huge drum. Dyno Dynamics will give you a better streetable number.

Something to think about.
If you drag race, Do you even get your car into 5th gear? If not, being 1.1 in 5th gear wont help if you never get there.

I would seek out a Dyno-Dynamics dyno if will give you the most consistent real numbers.

AMS Performance

Well said hooley,

It is best to dyno in 1:1 for the most accurate results, however if you can't because you will run into top speed limiter or the dyno's top speed then you can always use the next lowest gear. Nothing beats Dyno Dynamics when it comes to real world consistent results, it really is the best dyno out there.

MB_Forever

But I was told that Dyno Dynamics uses the same eddie-current load process used in Mustang Dynos? So what will be different? What can the user change in Mustang Dyno to alter the results? I tried to get him to change some settings, but there wasn't much to change?

UT_AMG

Holy cow! Than my car putting 475rwhp on an MD wasn't too bad! I'll have to take it back to Autoscope for another dyno run just to see.

AMS Performance

Its in the software, DDs new software is better. Also Mustang does use some sort of a "fudge factor" for lack of a better term. You have to input a specific group of settings for each specific make & model (you look it up in their database they provide you of all makes & models) and then punch in the numbers. Depending on what variables you enter it can change the numbers quite significantly. Its not as easy to do on DD, one of many differences.

I hear the new Windows based DD software now is even more precise and accurate (they just switched over as off mid to late 2008, was @ SEMA show). Other then that most of the changes on the new DD have to do with ease of use. The new dynos are quieter with better retarders. Also it has wireless touch pad control unit so no more old school controller & keyboard as well as upgraded weather station (the old DDs weren't as good in extreme weather changes between runs so this was a necessary improvement). Lots of other little things as well.

One new feature I particularly like is the ability to export the data plots directly into Microsoft office now to print it out easily, trying to print data plots on the older style DD was annoying and it would force you to print out all the dyno charts in the customers file and it would sometimes do it with odd rpm intervals. The new DDs are the best but older ones will suffice.

hope that helps.
~AMS~

UT_AMG

Actually Mo, that doesn't sound to bad compared to mine dyno run. 375rwhp on a Mustang dyno. I'd thought it would put out a little more power.

MB_Forever

My car does NOT make 500 hp to the wheels, trust me on this. I've ran side by side with an E55 that makes 500 to the wheels and they do NOT run 12.20 in the 1/4 mile, they run 11.50s or faster. The dyno settings were off and they're trying to figure out what's going on.

But actually, 375 rwhp seems perfect. That is exactly what I expected and wanted to get because that is exactly 10% lower than the dynojet numbers of 420 whp, which shows the dyno mustang you dynoed your car at was set correctly.

I will update this thread again when I re-dyno. And I will also try to dyno the car on a dynojet for comparison purposes.