pinoyk20

hi guys! what are the pros and cons in using a kleenman exhaustmanifold (headers) with the design how much power can we gain and also will we lose torque in the bottom end due to the long primaries unlike the stock design manifold.... will it give big gains on top end power and also will it require ecu tuning or stock amg ecu is ok???? will i have a CEL if i use a kleenman header with stock ecu??? thanks!

ABALONE

Here are my opinions.

Only headers = More top end HP, but loss of low end torque

Headers+ECU = Same low end as stock manifolds,more mids and more top end HP and free reving engine

I would guess my car added aprox 20-30 WHP with my Kleemann headers+ECU
And thats based on those 50-250 Km/h races i've been doing before and after headers.

And another thing, the sound

wawy

My concerns exactly but as Abalone said, "Headers+ECU = Same low end as stock manifolds,more mids and more top end HP and free reving engine". You could email Kleemann about these concerns also. You'll have to get them to adjust your ECU to take care of the CEL from having no primary cats. So, when you do this you might as well get their full tune also..

suicidal4life

I didn't notice any loss of low end power when I installed Kleemann Headers. I also installed high flow cats at the same time so that may be why. I did feel a noticeable increase in mid to high RPM. I was actually pretty surprised because I wasn't expecting to feel much increase.

I was getting CEL's from time to time but I sent Kleemann my ECU and they agreed to take care of that problem for free. I just had them turn off the CEL I didn't have them do the full tune.

My only regrets with my Kleemann headers is that the price has dropped so much from when I bought them. Kleemann's prices now are very competitive with several other brands shorty "headers".

pinoyk20

what im talking about is the kleenman long type of headers..... so there will be top end gain on hp how about the effect on torque?? bottom to top end will there be a gain???


why will i have a CEL with the primary cats removed??

what im planing to do is kleenman long headers, remove all cats (primary and secondary) change the exhaust pipng to 2.5 inch stainless piipes, change the resonator to 2.5 inch hi flow resonators put an X pipe then retain stock AMG muffler. what do you think of this set up???? is ecu tune needed? will i gain big amount of power??? im sure its gonaa sound fantastic! eheheh

wawy

I believe there are O2 sensors in the primary cats so removing them will cause the CEL. Kleemann can take care of this easily. I would definitely get an ECU tune to fully take advantage of everything..

pinoyk20

oh ok what if i will custom made a bung on the freeflow pipe that will repalce the primary cat where i can re put the stock 02 sensor??? will it still have a CEL? and also where can i send my ecu to be tuned? how much will it cost me? thanks!

wawy

I'm not too sure as I've never done that. You can send your ECU to Kleeman USA or one of their dealers. They can take care of the CEL and program your ECU to fully take advantage of the Kleemann headers and other mods. I would send Brandon or Cory there an email as they would be able to give you better answers to some of these questions. Keep us updated if you do!

suicidal4life

Kleemanns are not a true "long" header. They are more of a mid length but people tend to call them long because they eliminate the primary cats (Kleemann does offer a high flow primary cat option for people who don't want to do that)

Here is a link to pics of my Kleemann headers which are the same ones that fit the 99 E55
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ader-pics.html

As far as high vs low gains/losses I already posted my results.

There are two sets of o2 sensors on our cars. One before the primary cats and one after the primary cats. If you remove the primaries you will get a CEL. If you keep the stock secondaries and extend the o2 wires past the secondaries you might be OK. In my case I swapped the secondaries to high flow cats and got occasional CEL's. Kleemann can turn off the second set of o2's and you can run catless with no CEL's if you want but I preferred to keep my car legal.

I think most people remove the resonator and replace it with an x-pipe. I don't think most people keep both. I think you will gain some noticeable power but "big" is a subjective term. Obvioulsy you will gain more with an ECU tune then without but the headers work fine even without an ECU tune.

Yes. If you remove the cats and don't have Kleemann turn off the o2's you will get a CEL. Kleemann turned off my o2 for free but the full ECU tune will cost some money.


As far as pricing is concerned you are going to have to do some shopping. Heres a couple places to start.

Kleemann's Asian dealers.

http://www.kleemann.dk/Contact/DealersASPA.aspx

GMP was doing a pretty good sale on Kleemann M113 headers recently. You might see if they are doing the M113 W210 headers too.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...rformance.html

And finally as Wawy has said. Get in touch with Cory at Kleemann USA and he should be able to answer any questions you have.

pinoyk20

Kleemann header pics

with this header what im planing to do is put a hole into the collector of the headers where the 4 pipes merge into 1 then insert the 02 sensor on it. same thing as what other car tuners do on their hondas, mitsu etc.... so there will still be a working 02 sensor for the primary and do the same thing on the secondary cat . i will replace it with a straight free flowing pipe then put a hole on it to insert the secondary sensor as well so there for there wont be a need to request kleenman to remove the cel on the ecu...... waht do you guys think of my plan?? thanks!

pinoyk20

how much is the ecu tuning from kleenman? thanks and how long does it take?

suicidal4life

The Kleemann headers already have a hole in the collector that the first set of o2's screw into. Its kinda hard to notice in my first pics but if you scroll down my thread you can see it in this picture.



The o2's in the collector read the exhaust straight out of the engine. The second set of o2's are supposed to read the exhaust after it has passed thru the cat and has cleaned up the emissions. If you don't have a cat the second o2 will not see any reduction in emissions and will give a CEL. Kleemann can turn the second o2 off so there are no CEL's. There may be other ways to trick the second o2 (anti fouler trick, o2 simulators, etc) but the easiest way is to have Kleemann turn it off.

I'm not a Kleemann dealer so I don't know the price. Give them a call or email them and I'm sure they will give you a price.

My ECU was shipped back the day after Kleemann received it but I just had them turn off the CEL. Not sure about the full tune.... Once again call or email Kleemann.

suicidal4life

Not trying to be rude and, I know you are from the Philippines so English may not be your first language....Just a heads up its Kleemann not Kleenman.

pinoyk20

thats what im planing to do put a anti fouler plug on the 02 sensor. it like a extension screw tp put back the o2sensor on the same exact place and distance as the stock cat its like a spacer before the o2sensor so the o2 sensor can sense a little amount of emissions thinking it still has a cat. i did it before with my s2000. and it work great.

pinoyk20

im sorry sir i was kinda rushin and i didnt get to check what i had typed. ehhehe my bad. sorry.

pinoyk20

the extension is called CEL fix.



http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...sigb=12cqbp2gl



http://www.lancershop.com/files/t_1259.jpg


http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...sigb=13tbi1lh0


http://www.ichibausa.com/o2siad.html

do you guys think this will work? thanks!

Esh

Why don't you try it and let us know whether it works or not. You seem to have it pretty figured out.

suicidal4life

I remember at least one member getting it to work (maybe E55russ?) but it took them several tries to get the placement correct.

pinoyk20

cool thanks! so there is someone who had it done and work already???

Fabio D

i have one set of O2 sensors only ( Just befor the exhaust manifold & after the primarys) only in the Euro cars? or just the Us spec have the 4 O2 sensors!?

pinoyk20

i wa nt to avail kellenmann's or ams ecy buit the problem is i think they dont want to insure the shipping. that they are affraid that the ecu myt get stolen on shipping process thats why im looking for alternatives on how to ypass the 02sensor cel. so i wont need a cel delete on my ecu.

suicidal4life

Don't know about the euro models. Only speaking from my personal experience on my US car. However I think that the o2's that are before the cat are the ones that the ECU uses to adjust the air fuel ratio and the ones after the cat are just to make sure the cat is functioning correctly. I would think that it would not be able to adjust the AFR as accurately after the cat but I could be wrong. Are you sure you don't have o2's pre cat?

pinoyk20

how about the jdm e55 how many 02sensors does it have?

Esh

The Japanese spec E55? I have NO CLUE whatsoever.

pinoyk20

i guess i have to check mine . thanks!