pinoyk20

hi guys! im interested on buying the pulley but then my friend tld me that i will not be safe for the engine most importantly the internal parts on the engine like crankshaft,rods, bearing etc.. cause he said that the engine is balanced internally that any changes on the external parts may change the balancing of the engine that could lead to engine damage. so my question is how safe is the ams pulley for our engine? will it cause internal damage? will it change the engine balance? will will it have long term effect that could cause engine failure? and is it worth it? thanks im really intereste on this item . so if anyone can prove the safetyness of this part for our engine then ill get one. thanks

l pagan

i have one on my 99 E430 for about four months now with no problems

pinoyk20

oh but what im afraid of is the long term damage it will make. im concern how it will affect the reliability of the engine.

timdf

this thread makes for interesting reading if you've got the time.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...torsports.html

pinoyk20

thanks for the info. i guess ill stick with my stock pulley and go for other safer mods! thanks

saintz

There are at least two companies that make pulleys for the W210 E55: Evosport and AMS. Evosport are administrators on this board and AMS is a sponsor. There are some people on this board who don't like Evosport. There are some people on this board who don't like AMS. I would take any opinions about a company with a grain of salt.

The next issue is whether an aftermarket crank pulley is safe. I ran an aftermarket crank pulley on my Subaru boxer engine for about 30k miles without issue, but do not have one on my Mercedes currently. Some people contend that the Mercedes V8 requires the OEM pulley to act as a harmonic dampener and that a lightweight aluminium pulley is not sufficient. Others contend changing the pulley will not cause a vibration/dampening issue because the engine is sufficiently dampened without the pulley, because the lightweight pulley still functions as a dampener, or for other reasons.

One thing is for sure, the stock pulley is a two piece design and it has been proven it can separate, causing potentially severe damage to your engine bay. So, while you can argue that an aftermarket pulley will cause a dampening issue within your engine, you can also argue that a stock pulley will separate and punch through your radiator (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/1628009-post33.html), oil pan (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/2246186-post3.html), or timing chain (goodbye engine).

There are theoretical pros and cons. There are seemingly knowledgeable and respectable vendors selling aftermarket pulleys. There are knowledgeable people who choose to use aftermarket pulleys, and also knowledgeable people who stay away from them. There is no clear answer. It's up to you to read, think, and decide.

greg12m3

OMFG, just read this.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...y-come-14.html

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutone
Are any testimonial from benz world members available, who have installed your pulley?
It would be a good idea not to advertise the product until such time.

omeyhomey - hehe, thats exactly why I'm offering to people to try it out. I have torture tested it for 6 months & 5000miles and it works flawless, I know it works flawless. Its just a matter of adoption thats all. Not advertising, trying to get people to try it out. Thx"

Less than 1,000 miles a month? Wtf, I drive 3,000 a month....

I'm no engineer, but "6 months & 5000miles" doesn't sound like torture testing to me. I would want something that has the potential to destroy my engine to have been test far beyond any mileage i would reach... not just a month and a half of driving for me.

Save yourself the headache and just do a full exhaust(headers,high flow cats, x-pipe, stk muffler), filters and maybe the new Renntech R.A.T. if it's available to us.

Also I hate to bring it up but that guys comments, omeyhomey, are just retarded, he says in the link above that he wants to take on modded c5 z06s..... which, for stock, can run under 12 in a quarter mile (02-04, 01s can run around 12.5)..... yeah f'ing right, my fat e55 will never keep up with one of those with just a lighter pulley...

Found this too, from the link I posted,

"Omey could not back up his claim for BIG power and MPG gain and has been drummed off the BenzWorld, and AMS is no longer a 'supporting vendor' here.

HooleyBoy over at MB-World installed one of the AMS pulley and had to take it off as it was wobbling badly. He even took a video of it.

Omey try to savage the situation by sending him a new replacement (as Omey had been referring to HooleyBoy as a satisfy customer over and over), but HooleyBoy wanted nothing to do with Omey or AMS anymore. So the new replacement pulley just sits on his desk as a pencil holder (he even posted a picture)"

hooleyboy

The one that sat on my desk was the old broken one. Note: AMS sent me out a new pulley the very next day. Customer service was excellent I must say.

After I went superchargered I sold the AMS pulley to a local guy about 5 months ago. He seems to like it.

The bottom line is: Pulleys can fail. Some of the leading tuner companies all have had some sort of issue relating to pulleys failing. Even MBZ.

The truth is what it is, a few people have had issues and a number of people like the pulley alot.
Being 100% honest here. More people have had issues with ECU tunes than pulley problems. Is that along the lines of flying is statistically safer then driving? IDK?

What I will tell you is: After I installed the pulley the shift were smoother, I did pick up HP and TQ on the dyno. And under Highway driving I thought I seen some small gains.

Does that mean rush out and get the pulley? No. You have to do what you think is right for your car and take both sides in account (good & bad) when making a mod choice.

pinoyk20

thanks for sharing your experience and your opinion on this item! thanks

timdf

Do not suffer from torsional resonance issues as a short (4cyl) crank has a resonance which is way above the RPM limit.

Once you move into 6 or 8 cyl engines the crank shaft gets longer and thus the resonant frequency drops into the RPM range at which point it's a serious problem.

To counter act the resonance by damping it out it's vital to have the correct amount of mass on the other end of the crank from the flywheel.

This is just engineering fact which is why light weight pulleys on 6 and 8 cyls engines are inherently dangerous - not mention the power gain is < 0.5HP anyway !

saintz

Agree. Also, the Subaru boxer motor, because of its opposed nature, is supposed to have fewer issues with resonance and balance than a corresponding V or inline motor. In my research when putting this mod on my Subaru, I came across an email where a Subaru engineer was asked and confirmed that the Subaru crank pulley, although being a two-piece, rubber isolated design, was engineered to be only a crank pulley and not a harmonic dampener.

When I changed to a solid 1 piece pulley on the Subaru, I noticed a difference in performance and a rather dramatic difference in engine response. Double clutching and rev matching in particular was very noticeably faster (not that it would make much difference on a slush box).

This is obviously apples to oranges compared to the Mercedes M113, as you noted. Just out of curiosity, it seems the AMS pulley is designed as a harmonic dampener (two piece, rubber isolated) and not just a single piece of aluminium (see picture).

Is your contention that the pulley, although designed as a dampener, is not massive enough to be effective on this motor? Or that it is not designed correctly to be effective? You've been very vocal about AMS, but Evosport makes what appears to be a very similar product. Do you have the same feelings about the Evosport model, or do you feel it is a better alternative?

timdf

Correct - no where near enough mass to dampen the crank torsional resonance - MB has that big heavy pulley for a reason.

Note I emphasize crank torsional resonance - this has everything to do with the crank and nothing to do with the inherent balance of the engine which is often confused with torsional damping.

The reason I'm vocal is I've seen first hand when torsional resonance is not controlled - it's down right dangerous, especially on high torque / high HP 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

I have the same concerns about Evosport - the difference is that Omey AMS makes additional outrageous claims which are like a red flag to a bull to those of us who know better about the engineering aspects :-)

Small 4 cyl high revving engines with less rotating mass such as your boxer is different altogether and there is some benefit, albeit limited. Much like a light weight flywheel.

armaniE55

I have this Mod and haven't had any issues with it at all. I drive the car pretty hard daily with over 15k miles on the pulley with no hiccups. This is an interesting discussion/debate as the W210 is a much older car and response from other members will be light. My Indy a.ok my pulley when ever I go for an Oil change. Engine is running smooth as silk and no wobbling from the pulley. As the prior member stated w210 E55 engine was designed to have a heavier pulley but then again why do we mod our engines when AMG designed it that way for a reason?

AMS Performance - Care to take part ? Stats would be nice. I'll leave the details to you my friend.

Armani

Vadim @ FD

As the one who designed evosport pulleys, let me tell you that they have nothing to do with harmonic dampening.

Evospot pulleys simply replace factory alternator, water pump and power steering pump pulleys with slightly larger and significantly lighter billet aluminum design. The gains come from reducing rotational speed and inertia of the accesories. They do not replace harmonic damper.

Gains have been documented by numerous independent clients and range from 7-10HP.

A' La F1

AMS pulley on my SLK 55 for well over a year and no problems. AMS pulley on my CLK500 daily driver for 6 months and no problems. Only side affects were better MPG and much improved throttle response. I does make my stock belt squeak a bit on start up, but a little belt dressing on occassion cured that problem.

timdf

When I stated I have the same concerns about EVOSport, this was in relation to any lightweight pulley attached directly to the crankshaft.

Clearly reducing the mass / rotational speed of the accessories by means of a larger pulley (edit: directly attached to the accessory) will not have any adverse affect on the crank torsional resonance and will clearly reduce the load on the engine.

Apologies to Vadim for the misunderstanding.

pinoyk20

so it means that the evosports pulleys are safe to use? thanks

saintz

My mistake, I thought the Evosport pulley kit replaced the crank pulley as well. It's hard to find a picture of the kit so it's hard to tell for sure.

Fabio D

Vaim said "THEY DO NOT REPLACE THE HARMONIC DAMPER" only the accesories pulleys --maybe he have some pics for the kit

Fabio Daniel

suicidal4life

Evosport's pulley kit for the M113 NA consists of the water pump pulley, power steering pulley, and alternator pulley. It does not include a crank pulley.

Here is a pic of my Evo pullies before I installed them

pinoyk20

does it have any effect on the waterpump supply? and alternator power supply? pros and cons pls... thanks

saintz

Generally underdrive pulleys are safe if you're not running a very large stereo that is going to take a lot of electricity. I'm sure these are engineered so they're not starving the accessories, again, so long as you don't have a huge electrical draw like a mega stereo or a flat screen TV in the trunk.

pinoyk20

thanks! im planning on geting the evo pulleys also.

suicidal4life

I seem to remember the Evo water pump pulley being the same size as stock but weighing less. The alternator pulley is larger then stock. I don't have a lot of high power items on my car but I do have illuminated door sills, Sirius satellite radio, Valentine 1 radar detector, V1 concealed display, and a Laser Interceptor jammer. I have not had any problems with my charging system since installing the Evo pulleys.

pinoyk20

thanks for the inputs!