Autostream

ever since the 211 E class came out, about 75% of all new posts on what used to be the 210 forum are about the 211.
the non amg e class's have their own forums.

mbmb

I had the same thought. Since reading C&D's review of the W211 E55, I have very little interest in the car.

Many of the W211 posts have been "how much is it going to cost?", "what colors", etc.

I figure that once the people who are going to get W211 E55s actually have them, most of the noise will go away. In addition, people will probably start labeling their 211 messages and 210 messages as such. Besides which, I would probably lurk on the 211 forum out of curiosity.

amg55

1. C&D's summary impression of the 211E55 as per the November initial review was as follows: "It's inevitable that one day there will be quicker sedans than the E55 AMG. But we can wonder if any will possess the same balance of refinement, poise, and performance that makes the E55 so brilliantly complete".
Hardly a damning/critical appraisal.

2. Virtually every car mag favors the M5 over the E55 (even the 211 vs the outgoing E39 M5) for a variety of reasons, among them the lack of manual transmission in the AMG's.

3. The 210E55 was never favored over the E39 M5 by any car reviewer whose opinion I read.

4. Sounds like a bit of sour grapes on your part. Why? Because you have a car that's out of production? Does that really diminish your enjoyment of your 210E55 that much? Is it your opinion that the 210 is superior to the 211 AMG, having never seen or driven the latter? Those who have driven the 211E55 offer a handful of complaints: styling cues are too similar to E500 (just like the 210E55 vs E430), torque and power may be excessive and difficult to control at times (tragic), no manual transmission (as with all AMG models), would benefit from bigger/wider tires (as with many other AMG models), handling not as good as M5 (a perennial limitation same as with 210E55).

mbmb

No sour grapes at all. Without commenting on the forces that might compel someone to have the newest toys on the block, I'll just say that I don't feel compelled to have the latest model.

I've always said, and still maintain, that if I had unlimited funds and room for one car, this would be it. I'm driving my dream car; I put 2,000 fast miles on it every month, and I plan to drive it until it falls apart. I got a spanking deal on it because I bought it in its last year. I also put enough down that I'll never be upside-down, so I can always get out of it if my enjoyment does diminish. I'm not in love with the COMAND system, but other than that DBAG built exactly the car for me with the W210 E55. If I ever yearn for another 150+ HP, maybe I'll drive up to Colorado and hang out in the mountains while Kleemann adds forced induction.

Those are my own totally subjective feelings about the W210. On to the W211.

I don't like the W211's styling, but that's not something that would bother me while driving (which is what I buy cars for). Too much power or torque? They must be joking. Tires too narrow? The US model will have wider tires. Tranny? Handling? If I lived somewhere with hills (or even bends in the roads) I might care. Some quibble that the E55 weighs too much. Call me crazy, but I really don't mind being surrounded by an extra 400 pounds or so of steel.

If I recall correctly, there's a newer and more thorough C&D review of the new E55 than the 11/02 article. March '03, I think. (I threw away the magazine.)

What turns me off to the W211 is what I'm reading about its brake-by-wire system -- grabby, with not enough feedback. I would rather have less power and perfect brakes (W210 E55) than more power and imperfect brakes (the '67 Firebird 400 I had last year is the extreme example).

I don't think there's anything inherently bad about electrohydraulic brakes. BMW introduced them on the R1100RT a few years ago; they took too much control away from the rider. Since then BMW has worked out the kinks enough that the R1150RT brakes get pretty darn good reviews.

Maybe next year the E55 brakes will feel right. Maybe at the end of the production run they'll have the car ready for me. Until then, as AMG55 wrote:

"I've read nothing to support the notion that the new electrohydaulic braking system is an improvement."

sledgehammer

This guy is just pissed that all he got was a "new" car that is now out of production. If these guys want their own W210 forum, let them have it. We can label it the graveyard.

amg55

Mbmb:

I am a big proponent of making careful, informed decisions about major purcheses, then standing by the decision unless it proves to be flawed in some way.
You bought your 210 because you knew it suited your needs and tastes. You got a good deal on it. It seems to be satisfying your expectations in every way.
That's a very good thing.
You need not defend the 210 or try to trash the competition to make the 210 look better by comparison.
I don't think you'll find many people at this forum who will denigrate it. Most all of us think it's a true supercar.


My issue with your comments is that you seem to indicate that you feel the 211E55 will be such a disaster that you plan to, as you put it, "...lurk on the 211 forum out of morbid curiosity".

Waiting for all those who have bought 211's to come here to whine about what a piece of trash it is? How they wish they had 210's instead?
You could be prescient.
I doubt it.
MB has invested about $100 million to make sure you're wrong.


It makes you look a little foolish to come here all but predicting the 211E55 is going to be a bust and that you're going to be laughing to yourself about it. It could happen, sure. You could be right. Just like each of the 65 teams in the NCAA hoops tourney has a chance to win 6 straight games. But we all know how the odds stack up against the longshots.

mbmb

amg55-

You're right. "Morbid" is the wrong word. I've chopped it.

I sometimes follow the 928, M5 (E34 and E39), Audi, and WRX forums out of curiosity -- to see what else is out there, because I love cars. Once people start posting substantial messages about the W211, I'll look forward to reading them too.

I don't think the W211 will be a disaster. It just doesn't interest me much. I'm sure it will be a great success and make its owners very happy. And I'm sure DB will sell a lot more W211 E55s than it did W210 E55s. I don't see the W211 as "competition" to the W210 any more than the E55 is competition to the 500E (or the 6.9, or the 6.3). And if the brakes are even as bad as the reviews indicate, DB will fix them. Then I'll be more interested. I might buy one if I'm in the car market in its last production year.

Dr Chill

Currently the plans are to build just about the same number of W211 E55 as W210 E55's with approximately 800-1200 coming to the US annually. Regarding the brakes, I've regularly driven a 2003 w211 E500 for about 7 months now (my mother-in-law's who lives a few houses away) and have to say the brakes are excellent. They took a little getting used to, but they have performed very well and I do not feel they need any major changes. This new feature-SBC Hold-coming in all March 2003 and later W211's will hold the car still when idling in traffic even if you remove your foot from the pedal. This is an excellent feature that I hope will be available as a flash update in the near future for all W211's in use currently. We are very lucky also that her E500 has not had any issues in its first 10,000 miles of use.

Lastly, in comparing the two vehicles, the W210 E55 is a nice sports sedan with good performance while the W211 E55 is a bonafied musclecar. The W211 from my personal experience is clearly a superior car from an overall design, comfort, and handling perspective. From a pure power standpoint they are leagues apart, unless you drive a highly modified W210 like Cannon's ride. I'm in no way degrading your vehicle, mbmb, because I like it too, but 516 lbs-ft of torque does it for me.


I do think there will be a place for a separate W210 E55 forum about a year from now. Now, regarding that comparison to a 67 Firebird small block 400 with 1967 brakes--that's quite a stretch. My heavy 442 big block doesn't stop like a modern car either, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying driving it frequently.