MBH Header Feeler
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
MBH Header Feeler
A good friend of mine has a W210 E55. I was tossing around the idea of having long tube headers made for it. The only way I will make a fixture ($$$) is if people are interested in a set of top quality stainless steel, long tube headers. I might even do it as a group buy small production run. IF there is a legit interest I'll make the fixture. Otherwise I'll just put them on my friends car and be done with it. Let me know.
In all honesty the headers would not be the most affordable headers, but they won't be make of cheap material or made in China. Rather right here at MBH in Arizona.
Let me know
In all honesty the headers would not be the most affordable headers, but they won't be make of cheap material or made in China. Rather right here at MBH in Arizona.
Let me know
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Richmond, CA
2001 E320 Wagon, 2006 LBZ Silverado, 2007 E63 (sold), 2001 E55 (sold)
Any idea on what the price might be like (ball park within a few hundred maybe)? Since they'd be long tubes, I take it that they won't be smog legal in CA (for the visual at minimum)?
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: PDX
1999 C43, 2008 P30 E63, 2014 SQ5, 2024 Model Y Performance
I feel sorry for you guys in Cali. They don't even look under my car or ask to pop the hood in Oregon.
They just scan the bar code in the door jam and plug into the OBD II port. Less than 15 minutes and I am done (this doesn't include the 45 minutes I spend waiting to get into the bay
)
They just scan the bar code in the door jam and plug into the OBD II port. Less than 15 minutes and I am done (this doesn't include the 45 minutes I spend waiting to get into the bay
)
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,249
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From: Richmond, CA
2001 E320 Wagon, 2006 LBZ Silverado, 2007 E63 (sold), 2001 E55 (sold)
It's all about finding the right shop.
Back when I had my 5.0 Mustang (long time ago) I was running an off-road pipe on it and had dumped exhaust, both of which are illegal in CA. The place tried to smog it without the cats just to see what would happen. That didn't work so they swapped the stock cats back on, smogged it and put the off-road pipe back on. They could have lost their smog license because of that.
Some of my friends know of places that will ignore the visual, but it will cost a lot.
Back when I had my 5.0 Mustang (long time ago) I was running an off-road pipe on it and had dumped exhaust, both of which are illegal in CA. The place tried to smog it without the cats just to see what would happen. That didn't work so they swapped the stock cats back on, smogged it and put the off-road pipe back on. They could have lost their smog license because of that.
Some of my friends know of places that will ignore the visual, but it will cost a lot.
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Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
I'm guessing $2500. I know its a lot for an aging car. Thats half the reason Im skeptical about doing it. Basically paying someone a whole work week just to make the jig is pricey. Then the lost of stainless steel along with the time it takes to make a header set. There will be over $1000 in materials alone. Every other N/A 55 header we have done has been a flat out flop. Only selling a few sets of each.
Back when I was building the MBH brand, I dumped money into making fixtures and all that stuff for a lot of cars. Now I'm trying to focus on projects that make sense, from a business perspective. So what really has to happen is... I need to offset the cost of materials in the jig, the jig itself, and cost of materials in each header system.
With that said, This is a feeler thread. I'm trying to do some market research. Realistically, I would need to move 6-7 sets of E55 (210) headers to not take a loss. I think thats a lot to ask, but worth asking none the less.
I just want people to have a clear understanding as to where I'm coming from. I don't mind breaking even on projects like this, but I can't do it at a loss.
We won't have a clear understanding of what materials are needed until I have the car on the life. If we have to use expensive tight radius bends, it really could be a deal breaker when it comes to final end price.
Back when I was building the MBH brand, I dumped money into making fixtures and all that stuff for a lot of cars. Now I'm trying to focus on projects that make sense, from a business perspective. So what really has to happen is... I need to offset the cost of materials in the jig, the jig itself, and cost of materials in each header system.
With that said, This is a feeler thread. I'm trying to do some market research. Realistically, I would need to move 6-7 sets of E55 (210) headers to not take a loss. I think thats a lot to ask, but worth asking none the less.
I just want people to have a clear understanding as to where I'm coming from. I don't mind breaking even on projects like this, but I can't do it at a loss.
We won't have a clear understanding of what materials are needed until I have the car on the life. If we have to use expensive tight radius bends, it really could be a deal breaker when it comes to final end price.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
You could do some mild steel with a ceramic coating. Should easily be able to do a run of 5 or 6 for around $1,200 each and still make a profit. May not be enough profit to be worth you time though. At $2500, it would be a big flop and you would not be able to sell more than one or two.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 289
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From: Woodland Hills, CA
1999 e55 (past), 2002 CLK55 (past), 2004 E55 (present), 2008 Z06
Sounds like a compelling product. I've been thinking about headers myself, and for me, though I have some means $2500 would be too much. Considering it will cost at least $500 to have the headers installed there there's the additional cost for tuning to turn of the CEL or sort out other issues you're looking at a $3,000 investment for a car that may be worth $12,000 on a great day.
Have you considered something similar to the Kleeman setup, perhaps with a different or more efficient design? Or maybe reusing materials from your existing inventory?
I don't mean to be negative and do appreciate your interest in developing something great for our cars. Please don't be offended by my opinion.
Have you considered something similar to the Kleeman setup, perhaps with a different or more efficient design? Or maybe reusing materials from your existing inventory?
I don't mean to be negative and do appreciate your interest in developing something great for our cars. Please don't be offended by my opinion.
Last edited by jordanst2; Nov 30, 2011 at 12:14 PM.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
I appreciate the feedback. When I set out to do a project even it its just in the idea stages. It has to be done using only the best materials available. Build quality and craftsmanship is always number 1 in my book. I won't sacrifice any of that just to make a buck or to sell something. I just want to be flat out honest with you guys. Its very hard or almost impossible to make a header system for a extremely small market using 16g U.S. made stainless steel and have it be affordable. While still being build to our standards.
In the end I want to be flat out honest with you guys. Just because one local guy wants this system done does not mean its for everyone. However I wanted to put the offer out there for all you guys and be realistic with you as to what the cost area will be around.
We do many 1 off header systems for sand rails, Baja trucks, Hotrods and exotics. For a 1 off header system for a V8 starts at around $3000. When we do a 1 off system we have to factor in R&D time, lift time labor and materials. A one off project can tie up a lift for a week or even more.
Not a lot of companies are willing to go backwards when developing new products on modern cars. Part of the reason is price of the car vs the cost of the header system. So if you have a $15k car its unrealistic to have a header system worth 30% of the cars value. I completely understand that.
Again I appreciate the feed back, I didn't want to come here, release a product and blow your mind with the cost of a header system. Rather ask you guys directly before we more forward or not. I hope people have a better understanding that if we did this, what it would take to do it.
In the end I want to be flat out honest with you guys. Just because one local guy wants this system done does not mean its for everyone. However I wanted to put the offer out there for all you guys and be realistic with you as to what the cost area will be around.
We do many 1 off header systems for sand rails, Baja trucks, Hotrods and exotics. For a 1 off header system for a V8 starts at around $3000. When we do a 1 off system we have to factor in R&D time, lift time labor and materials. A one off project can tie up a lift for a week or even more.
Not a lot of companies are willing to go backwards when developing new products on modern cars. Part of the reason is price of the car vs the cost of the header system. So if you have a $15k car its unrealistic to have a header system worth 30% of the cars value. I completely understand that.
Again I appreciate the feed back, I didn't want to come here, release a product and blow your mind with the cost of a header system. Rather ask you guys directly before we more forward or not. I hope people have a better understanding that if we did this, what it would take to do it.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 998
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From: Central Connecticut
86 190D (Exported to the Nerderlands), 87 300TD (Sold), 82 Ford F150 3spd, 99 E300D (RIP), 02 E55
If you can get it down to $1500 then I might go for a set. The AMS short headers are $800 hence with a one piece long once would definately increase the smoothness of the flow...
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: PNW
2001 E430
This probably makes the most sense on these older models. Probably still last longer then most people would hold on to these cars. IIRC Evosports W211 headers were coated mild steel.
It sounds like MBH wants to focus on high quality headers and doing these in mild steel might dilute their brand so I could understand them not wanting to go this route.
It sounds like MBH wants to focus on high quality headers and doing these in mild steel might dilute their brand so I could understand them not wanting to go this route.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,437
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From: PDX
1999 C43, 2008 P30 E63, 2014 SQ5, 2024 Model Y Performance
If I had an E55 I would be all over this, regardless of the cost. Then again I am a ***** for limited production items. It would bring a tingle in my pants if I was 1 of 10 E55's with custom MBH headers...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,249
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From: Richmond, CA
2001 E320 Wagon, 2006 LBZ Silverado, 2007 E63 (sold), 2001 E55 (sold)
I'd be all over them as well if I didn't work for peanuts. However, I would have a hard time dropping $2,500 on headers for a $10,000 car anyways. Even more so since I'd have to swap them out every 2 years for smog and have to worry about the rest of the exhaust since it wouldn't be a straight swap.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,411
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
I'd be all over them as well if I didn't work for peanuts. However, I would have a hard time dropping $2,500 on headers for a $10,000 car anyways. Even more so since I'd have to swap them out every 2 years for smog and have to worry about the rest of the exhaust since it wouldn't be a straight swap.
Its not going to be only $2500, don't forget the installation normally runs $600 for long tube. And probably need to reprogram the ECU for O2 sensor. So the complete job will cost at least $3K for 30hp to 40hp. From my understanding it takes about 6 hours job to install it. I wouldn't pay anything more than $1500 for the header.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 998
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From: Central Connecticut
86 190D (Exported to the Nerderlands), 87 300TD (Sold), 82 Ford F150 3spd, 99 E300D (RIP), 02 E55
Long Tube Header Group Buy Interest
This is from Schweinhund...benzworld forum...the wholesale price for ceramic coated would be around $350 to $400....
So I've been discussing details of a long tube header with Mac Performance in Temecula CA for a while now.
for a group buy we would need the following:
MAC has been around a long time and is very trustworthy. Their products are distributed nationally. Mac Performance - performance accessories for cars, trucks, and motorcycles
I do not have time to coordinate the group buy but if anyone is interested, let me know.
I think we would easily find 50 units of interest in the community at large. Although I have no proof, I strongly suspect these cars will really respond to long tubes.
I would imagine their will be passing smog check questions many will be interested in.
Last edited by Schweinhund; 11-29-2011 at 10:21 AM.
So I've been discussing details of a long tube header with Mac Performance in Temecula CA for a while now.
for a group buy we would need the following:
- Minimum 50 pieces order.
- A donor car for at least a week at their shop.
- A shop owner or dealer to coordinate the purchase. They would need to be licensed and bonded.
- Payment in advance or secured. Each participant would need to pay the coordinator ahead of time.
- They are really busy right now and could not begin the work until June. So we have time to reach 50.
MAC has been around a long time and is very trustworthy. Their products are distributed nationally. Mac Performance - performance accessories for cars, trucks, and motorcycles
I do not have time to coordinate the group buy but if anyone is interested, let me know.
I think we would easily find 50 units of interest in the community at large. Although I have no proof, I strongly suspect these cars will really respond to long tubes.
I would imagine their will be passing smog check questions many will be interested in.
Last edited by Schweinhund; 11-29-2011 at 10:21 AM.
Last edited by snooozie; Dec 8, 2011 at 08:35 PM. Reason: readjust paragraph
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 69
From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
This is from Schweinhund...benzworld forum...the wholesale price for ceramic coated would be around $350 to $400....
So I've been discussing details of a long tube header with Mac Performance in Temecula CA for a while now.
for a group buy we would need the following:
MAC has been around a long time and is very trustworthy. Their products are distributed nationally. Mac Performance - performance accessories for cars, trucks, and motorcycles
I do not have time to coordinate the group buy but if anyone is interested, let me know.
I think we would easily find 50 units of interest in the community at large. Although I have no proof, I strongly suspect these cars will really respond to long tubes.
I would imagine their will be passing smog check questions many will be interested in.
Last edited by Schweinhund; 11-29-2011 at 10:21 AM.
So I've been discussing details of a long tube header with Mac Performance in Temecula CA for a while now.
for a group buy we would need the following:
- Minimum 50 pieces order.
- A donor car for at least a week at their shop.
- A shop owner or dealer to coordinate the purchase. They would need to be licensed and bonded.
- Payment in advance or secured. Each participant would need to pay the coordinator ahead of time.
- They are really busy right now and could not begin the work until June. So we have time to reach 50.
MAC has been around a long time and is very trustworthy. Their products are distributed nationally. Mac Performance - performance accessories for cars, trucks, and motorcycles
I do not have time to coordinate the group buy but if anyone is interested, let me know.
I think we would easily find 50 units of interest in the community at large. Although I have no proof, I strongly suspect these cars will really respond to long tubes.
I would imagine their will be passing smog check questions many will be interested in.
Last edited by Schweinhund; 11-29-2011 at 10:21 AM.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
First and fore most I know that what we do is not cheap. What I also know that the materials and build quality are second to none. There will be a very select few who would want a mod like this for there W210 E55. So that really does not constitute the jig.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 553
Likes: 3
From: Los Angeles
W210 E55
Nothing against MBH, I am sure what is proposed here is top quality and materials.
Just because the usually exclusive and high-end MBZ aftermarket may be able to realize a price that is typical for less expensive vehicles with huge aftermarkets (Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, etc), does NOT mean that a part is cheap. It means someone other than the Euro-aftermarket shops can make products for our cars too and we get the benefits.
Last edited by Schweinhund; Dec 9, 2011 at 12:59 PM.
