Clyde

I just watched the 4MATIC technical demonstration-video @ mbusa.com; and it seems like the ideal system for having the best traction on the road. It even looked better then just having 2 wheels do the work like the AMG models.

So why isn't the E55 equipped with this? Is there a special reason for...?

xraymd

Do a search and I'm sure you'll find a thread on this. In short, the all wheel drive transmission is not sturdy enough to handle the torque of the E55.

Jakpro1

I just don't get that....Lambos have been running AWD for years pouring mountains of torque to them with no problems. Do you think it's a weight issue...not to many 2 ton Lambos I guess.

FThornton666

weight and the tranny. Lambo uses a much different tranny than that of an AMG model. i believe AWD adds what 400 lbs more?

Clyde

The Audi RS6 has also got all wheel drive; but the styling is a bit too aggressive. I like it more elegant like MB..

Clyde

I noticed that the E500 4MATIC is the fastest MB sedan with 4 wheel drive, but as I heard you cant get a ultra fast 4MATIC @ MB (like an E55) cos of the torque thing.

So its either the ultra fast E55 with 'only' 2 wheel drive; or the 'fast' E500 (V8, 5.0L, 302 hp, 339 lb-ft) with outstanding all wheel drive grip.

So its either absolute power or awesome traction. What do u think? Which one of the two gives you the best driving kick??

xraymd

Hey, it's the E55 forum. We like POWER!!!!!!!

RossN

If Mercedes builds it, we will come......, and in large number's I would imagine.

Bilal

Well I am going to quote Tobias Moers, AMG's head engineer on this issue:

All AMG cars are based on MB models, if the base car exists, we can make an AMG version of it, but this is not the case with the CL/SL/S class cars. When the S500 4 Matic was launched, engineers explained that the ABC suspension was physically larger than the Airmatic units, precluding the use of the front driveshafts. It followed, even though ABC is an option on V8 cars, you cannot have it on an S500 4 Matic, the Airmatic is only the possible option

The torque issue is also paramount, 4 Matic can't take the torque of the standard AMG V8K, let alone the V12's. Also, AMG's past experience of 4WD has led them to believe it is not a popular option with their customer base. A W210 E55 with 4Matic was offered, but only 50 to 60 cars were sold over the entire model life. <-- However it could be argued that this needs rexamination after making 700Nm+ capable engines.

Due to these reasons, the standard AMG cars come with ESP/ASR/BAS and ABS. You can turn the ESP off, but the ASR will remain to act as a traction aid, braking the rear wheels individually. The ESP in later cars like SLK55/CLS55/CLK-DTM and C55 has also been programmed to allow a certain slip angle to act like an electronic LSD so you can get better drifts. Works in theory but in practice, only a real LSD will do. The reason it wasn't offered on the SLK55 is due to the handling becoming very aggressive and only being handled by exerienced drivers, calling all M3 owners. :p

AMG also have an LSD available but it has a very low take-up rate with customers, regardless of it not being offered in NA. AMG experimented with LSD but found lap times around Hockenheim to be the same. The ESP works up to top speed, and so far is proving adequate.

G55K

I do believe the the tranny can handle the power and weight is also not the issue. After all, you can buy a 500 hp G Class. Demand must be the issue that prevents Mercedes from building a E55 4matic.

RossN

If Mercedes wants to, they can "Engineer" a AWD system to handle ANY hp amount, as silly as it seems even 1000hp is not out of the question. It is all about Customer Demand and will MB make money from the effort. They can make it handle to if they want. As for ABC, if it doesn't fit, redesign it to.

Bibal, do you think that same car the engineer tested on the track would have the same performance with a properly engineered AWD system?

The US market is very different from the ROW market IMO. We Americans like options, the more the better. Especially ones that improve safety. AWD is a great Safety Option, especially with 430 rwhp.

If Mercedes offered AWD, my guess is at least 20% of potential buyers would opt for it. Many AMG owners have 2, 3, and 4 vehicles already, so it's not uncommon for the "Wife" to grab the keys to the AMG. AWD in the AMG car line would allow more potential buyers to safisfy their signifigant other. And it is smart marketing plain and simple.

In my case this is a very valid point. I can't always justify spending X amount of $$ for a high HP sedan (that could be considered "to powerful and dangerous" to my Wife), but if that same sedan now can have a "blanket" safety feature in my Wife's mind, well that makes the buying decision all that much easier. Even 2 AMG's in the household is not a hard pill to swallow. I am not saying that the typical Wife gives the approval to purchase, but with AWD there are less negatives about the car to argue about.

I believe AWD would bring in new owners to the AMG brand as well. This might be the case with the E55 wagon because of its utility feature.

Maybe a poll in order for this AWD question?

fastneutron

It was mentioned to me by Ronald (AMG Owner's Club in Germany) that 4-matic versions of AMG cars are available in Germany. This was last year when I met with him in Munich.

Clyde

I was thinking... maybe I can have it both in a way (power and awesome traction). Like getting the E500 4MATIC with his excellent 4wheel drive; and then doing a little Kleemann supercharger upgrade on it. It will not have the amount of torque the E55 has, but it will be faster then a stock e500.

In that way it will be fast + 4wheel drive. Do u think that is possible? (the kleemann upgrade on the 4matic)

Frank Wiesmann

as was the wagon, but only in Europe. I guess they may have discontinued it due to lack of demand but if enough people ask for it, they may bring it back and also to the US, just like the new E55 wagon.

Bilal

No doubt Mercedes could make a good AWD system, but would it be really necessary? I mean sure the traction issue is horrendous, but I would still prefer RWD car with an LSD, preferably one that has an aggressive lockup for better traction.

The problem with AWD is inherent understeer and increased weight. The E500 4 Matic has a shorter final drive just for this very reason. It may seem quick but it won't do 170mph+ like its other 500 sibings...(not that it matters)

I would say if AMG doesn't do something then its not worth doing. AMG does not take extensive trouble to do its own R & D, if Mercedes has it...AMG can modify it. But AWD....hmmmm

Vetluver

I would be happy with a 2 wheel drive E55. LSD should be stock not a $4000 add at the dealer.

AMGfan

Have you looked into the Kleeman LSD? Supposedly, it is only $2500.

ThemisN

Has anyone here driven a 4matic car a couple of times?
I have driven my father's S430 4matic, and while it is very good in snow, it is very aggravating in rain. The second it hits a puddle on one side, it pulls the other way. I feel like i must constantly have 2 hands on the wheel to counter the "smart" moves by the car. The car with 4matic becomes much less predictable in how it will react. For us drivers who know how to DRIVE and are able to react to everything, this is a big difference.

If I were to like 4matic in an amg, i would want it part-time, where i can pick when its on (when it snows). Otherwise, i feel much more comfortable in a rearwheel drive car in everyday scenarios and a difft vehicle, be it an suv or a 4matic car on days when it is needed. Now if THAT were available, sign me up.

Vetluver

I talked to the MB dealership and they'll do the AMG but I'm not sure about the Kleeman. Unfortunately the closest place that I can have Kleeman put in is Colorado Springs. Unfortunately Kleeman doesn't have a Dallas branch. I could swing that.

04E55 AMG

My OEM AMG LSD system should be arriving at my dealer within the next few weeks from Germany. I will keep you posted on the results.