e55 baller

All,

I have no idea what the heck the root cause is here but I expected to see 470rwhp and 520-540 rwtq with all the mods that I have on my E55.

The mileage is 25K. The car's coolant is full. I have had one pass while bone stock at 1.84 60-foot with a 12.29@113.6 SAE corrected for a bad 28.4 barometer (DA = 2,000) ft. brings the car at around 12.1@115. So my point is that the car was not a slow stocker.

Dyno #1 in 2003 with Speedtuning s/w and snorkle: 401 rwhp/439 rwtq (4th gear on mustang dyno)

Dyno #2 2 weeks ago again on a mustang dyno.
run 1 -- 378 rwhp @4200 rpms and 521 rwtq (3rd gear). Dyno cut off at 4200 rpms due to car not in dyno mode.

run 2 - 388 rwhp 475 rwtq (4th gear),

Dyno #3 - image below. 394 rwhp, 491 rwtq, 4th gear pull on dyno jet. I figured if I made a pass with this power I would perhaps get a 12.0@114. I feel entitled to a 120mph pass with all the mods.

Performance Mods on Dyno 2 & 3:

I am stumped as to what the heck is going on. Before everyone jumps in and says its easy you have 3 products by 3 companies I am not convinced that a header or cooling mod from one tuner should make much of a difference.

I am however concerned that the Hennesey pully is too big and not working well with the Kleeman s/w. Hennessey claims it works fine with the stock ECU yielding 40rwhp.

Given my nuclear level intake air temps (IATs) of 151 F and 181 F pre WOT on 2 dyno attempts with a 5 minute cool down with end IATs at 236 and 279!!! it is no doubt that the timing is being pulled, fuel is being dumped causing the A/F to drop BELOW 10.0 near redline. This explains why the rwhp is anemic but what I am curious is the root cause.

Is it heat and pulley related? Perhaps the IC or water pump has failed or is blocked? the air temp sensor is giving wrong data to the ECU, the pulley/ECU combo is messed up, the Evo cooling system has a blockage/bubble in it. Ideas?

If you were to remove mods which order would you do it in?

Btw, before I went with the Kleeman s/w i had the Speed tuning chip and 50% of the time my supercharger would NOT come on. As I understood from Cory the supercharger will not engage at the onset of WOT if the IATs are > 225 F. I am surprised that during WOT when my temps went way past 225 F that the car did not go into limp mode.

Help please :-)

Vadim I will call you today, thanks.

dragonAMG

Maybe a bad MAF sensor?

Vadim @ evosport

E55Baller: Call me at 714.901.3100x70. Like I said in previous thread, you either have no fluid or pump is not working.


Please DO NOT drive car hard until you find out the cause of intercooler circuit not working. This is why you are down 80-90HP from where you should be.

Jakpro1

Hi Baller,

Weren't you the guy that had the bogging problems a few weeks ago. What ever became of that.....sounds like it is still around...somewhere.

Sorry you are having trouble.

Gotta be a sensor or something messing with the system.

I am serious.....I just hate that snorkel mod.....it was sucking piping hot engine air on me. The odd shape did not come close to matching the oval of the original.....we need every degree we can get and even a little 200+ degree air seeping in hurts. That would be my my first thing to try swaping out Baller.

***update....of course listen to Vadim before me.....but when all is done and you get up back to normal, really check that snorkel mod to see if she is sucking hot air around the radiator connect area. **

e55 baller

Jak pro,

I had tons of problems about 2-4 months back about the supercharger not coming on. Happened when RPM racing in Long Island installed my Hennesey pulley and Evo headers (i had the speed tuning chip at the time).

went back 2 weeks later and installed the EVO cooling kit and still had the same issue...however realized there was a hose that had gotten cut...went back again to fix it and no more issues with the charger not coming on until just last week...but only once.

I kust spoke with Vadim, going to do a flow test on the Johnson pump and check the coolant levels.

houston

So true. I took that thing out long ago. I had originally bought the SL55 tube and then the S500 tube. None of which fitted properly like the OE E55 tube. I just left the stock on instead. it's bad enough we suffer from heat issues, let alone bring more heat to the problem.


baller, hope you find out what the problem(s) are and fix them.

Hansxotic

sorry i have no input to your problem but seeing Altered Atmosphere reminds me of my MD days and the NSX

vrus

E55 Baller,

Wow.. Didn't realize the intake temps were that high... Here are a couple of thoughts I have:

1) Check the EVO intake spacer installation. Remove the air boxes on both sides of the intake manifold and inspect each side to see if the spacer is sitting properly with the 2 gaskets on the top and bottom of the spacer. The installation requires a 6ft lb of torque (from what I remember) on the intake manifold bolts. Verify that the bolts are all tight and that the manifolds are snug up against the spacers so that it isnt sucking hot engine air.

2) Remove the snorkel and put the stock one back on just like everyone mentioned. Make sure both snorkels are attached properly where they meet the front of the car.

3) Check the bolts on the air filter covers and make sure the air filter covers are seated properly and not taking in hot engine bay air. An easy way to verify this is to remove the top of the covers and look at the top of the filter. If there is sand, dirt, debris on the filter that tells you it isnt sealed properly. The airflow should be from bottom of air box up through the filter and then into the Y-shaped rubber tube to the throttle body. The top of the filter should never be dirty!

4) Check the Y-boot going to the throttle body. Make sure it is seated properly and that the lower clip that hooks onto the bottom of the throttle body isnt BROKEN OFF. It is a piece of plastic and during re-installation if you are not careful it could snap which would cause the boot to not seal properly against the throttle body.

5) If all of the above checks out properly, I would remove the Hennessey pulley and either: a) put the Kleemann pulley on there, or b) remove the Kleemann ECU programming and go back to stock. The kleemann ECU software probably will not be a good match with the stock pulley on there so you will most likely have to change both on or off. Verify IAT and engine power on the dyno and then from there you can eliminate a few possibilities.

Personally I dont think the pump is bad. If the fluid level is moving in the fluid reservoir then it is working. Hopefully when they installed the cooling system there was no sand/debris that entered the fluid pump when they were feeding it the fluid.

Also, that Johnston pump is sensitive to being run WITHOUT fluid. I hope the installer didnt activate the pump when it was dry because that would of damaged it.

These are some things that came off the top of my head.. If I think of anything else I will post here..

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress!

e55 baller

Victor,

Yes the temps are skyhigh. Probably another 30 F and my engine would begin to melt. My engine tems though seem to always range from 80-100 C, I don't think I have ever seen it go 1 bar over 100 C but it probably did on the dyno.

I am going to get rid of the snorkle mod tonight then do a pump test this weekened. Thank you for your list...I have a feeling it all comes down to a faulty Evo cooling system install by RPM Racing Inc.

MikaelSS

Doesn't have one, speed density system. Hope you figure it out baller.

Cory @ Kleemann

Not possible- 113K engine's use a Speed-Density system-(MAP and IAT sensors), there is no MAF to go bad.

e55 baller

Cory,

Any reason to think that the interaction between the Kleemann ECU and the Hennessey pulley would be the critical driver here. I assume it is not too likely but would like your feedback. I know the Kleemann ECU was optimized for your specific pulley but I would not think IATs, A/F would go out of normal ranges like posted above.

Thank!

vrus

Just thought of a couple more things to check out...

1) Take a peek through your bumper grille and see if you can visibly identify the orientation of the pump. It needs to have the OUTLET pointing straight UP towards the top of the engine bay. The inlet part should be facing you when you look into the grille.

2) Also, see if you can jack up the front of the car, crawl under there and remove the black plastic tray directly under the front end of the car. Check the coolant hoses and make sure there are NO KINKS anywhere. It's possible you have a kink in one of the fluid hoses and it isnt letting the fluid by, hence, the tremendous heat buildup.

3) Lastly.. I dont want to say this part, but heck, anything is possible.. If you gave RPM the installation instructions, there is one part of the instructions where it says to remove a hose from a T-fitting and put a cap on it. There are 2 hoses that are very close to eachother. Hopefully they didnt make a mistake at that point and separated the wrong fluid hose.

I assume your supercharger cooling system has been filled with distilled water & Water Wetter.. If you look inside the reservoir does it look like clear water or does it have any blue fluid in it (representing engine coolant) ??

Just some thoughts I had...

e55 baller

.

vrus

You know that the 2 reservoirs have nothing to do with eachother right? One SHOULDNT affect the other unless RPM made a mistake during install.

What are you putting into the EVO reservoir?? I would suggest you use plain water and water wetter. Using something different than the car's coolant and inspecting the EVO reservoir will give you a good indication of whether or not the 2 systems really are isolated. If you put the same stuff in there that you use in your car, you can never look at the fluid and tell if it is mixing with the car's coolant system.

If your reservoir is going bone dry and there are no leaks on the floor, then maybe your circuits are not separated and it is circulating back into the main cooling circuit????? Just guessing....

I know that Vic55 and even myself are getting level drops in the reservoir.. I am working with Vadim to try and figure out what is causing the level to go down.. I have NO LEAKS in my system that I can visibly see but my level goes down a little bit each day.

I am using Evans NPG-R Racing coolant and at $28 a gallon, it gets expensive to keep topping it up.

I'll have to do some more investigations and talk with Vadim about the result... Hopefully its nothing major.

Cory @ Kleemann

The Hennessey pulley is HUGE- over 175mm in dia. it's no wonder your discharge temps are so high, not to mention how much power it's eating up spinning the SC that fast. The ECU is doing it's job, but because the air density isn't there, it's probably pulling quite a bit of timing, hence your low numbers. I'd be willing to bet that if you put our pulley on the car, it would make more power. Air density is EVERYTHING. Give me a call if you want to discuss this in further detail.

vrus

Any new info on this ??

Curious if you found the culprit.

e55 baller

Well for starters I put in some water into the Evo resovior, turned the car on...60 seconds later it came right out the bottom of the car. I couldn't see any loose hoses.

Next step will be taking off that black plastic tray. I wasn't able to get a good look at the Johnston pump. I still hear it buzzing as loud as ever.

I changed the snorkle back to stock -- I noticed the small gap and I am certain that the increase in temp probably is worse off than the positive increase in air flow. More to come....

Vadim @ evosport

Isaac, can you take your car back to the shop that did the install? Without water in the cooling system there will be no cooling.

vrus

Isaac,

Sorry to hear about all the troubles.. Definitely sounds like RPM did something wrong during install.. Could be as simple as they forgot to put a hose clamp back on or didnt tighten one of the clamps enough..

If you get under the car with the tray removed you will probably be able to identify the problem and probably be able to fix it yourself.

It only takes 10min to remove the tray.

e55 baller

Yeah the messed up thing is that this would be the SECOND time that RPM goofed up the install. In addition I took a flash light looking after the headers for the Evo primary cat by-pass tubes and low and behold I still see the primary cats, but they gave me back the cats....gotta be someone elses. Something doesn't add up.

Victor -- Btw, I just ordered all the heat wrap stuff you recommened, came to $250 from Summit racing...does that sound right?

vrus

I think you are confusing the RESONATOR with the cats. EVO doesnt sell primary cat delete pipes. They sell RESONATOR delete pipes.

The resonator is probably 13 or 14" long.. It has 2 inlets and 2 outlets side by side and if you look inside you will be able to see right through it.

Not sure really.. I didnt keep track because I ordered in different batches... Sounds close though..

BoostedV8

Rules to live by for anyone upgrading a car:

1. Get a stock baseline dyno test - perferably on a dynojet.

2. Dyno your car the same way everytime - cold or driven to the dyno shop then run hot.

3. Re-dyno your mods one at a time. If you mod 3 things at once and you dont get the power you think you should then how are you going to know which upgrade is screwing you?

4. Get your upgrades from one source. if you get a part here and a part there and get some internet advice and then add some split fire plugs and playboy air freshener and then your car dont make the power or runs like crap - who are your going to blame? thats right - Yourself! if you get all the stuff from one supplier and it dont work, then who you going to blame? the Supplier!

I know these facts to be true as I have been down this road a few times. Sorry you are in the place you are in. But if you want to get it fixed, then I suggest you put it all back to stock and start adding back the mods one at a time and using the dyno each time to verify. It will cost you some time and money but will be worth it for your peace of mind.

Ted Baldwin

................The above mentioned rules are key. I have been both the victim and beneficiary of car mods. Anything that does not show up on your before vs after dyno, does not exist. It does not matter what the vendor claims is the excuse..........temp, altitude and whatever else they claim. Ask for your money back. I also agree that you must dyno each component separately. If not, each vendor will blame the other. kleemann will blame the Hennessey pulley and Hennessey will blame the Kleemann chip and your installer will blame everyone else but himself. Choose one company, ask for expected gains in numerical RWHP terms, not mumbo jumbo then perform before and after dyno. And finally, ask for a written warranty. If the vendor does not have a warranty, you may still choose to proceed at your own risk, but do not accept oral or implied warranties like "we are here for you if something happens." As you can see, when something happens, you are largely on your own.

Ted

vrus

And that's exactly why I am upgrading 1 piece at a time and dyno'ing...

Gotta see what works and what doesn't... Dyno time isn't cheap, but at least you have piece of mind in knowing that your car is running perfectly after every component change.

I am sure E55_Baller will be fine once he gets the cooling system working properly. I suspect even if he does, the Hennessey pulley is just making way too much boost and his dyno graph will probably show some serious drop-off at high RPM.

E55_Baller: Any updates on the situation?? Is RPM taking care of you?