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You guys catch Marcus's post...SBC is bye bye in 06 >

You guys catch Marcus's post...SBC is bye bye in 06

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You guys catch Marcus's post...SBC is bye bye in 06

 
Old 11-28-2005, 12:04 PM
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
You guys catch Marcus's post...SBC is bye bye in 06

Wow, I thought it was for the 09 rollout, but she's toast with the facelift next year. I bet new brakes will be great....finally all the car mags can get the hell off our back. It's all they talk about when the review our cars.

https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-tech-talk/128163-brake-wire-no-more.html
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Old 11-28-2005, 12:32 PM
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Halleujah! No more brake by wire!

The original idea is stupid and they finally recognize it. I hope this is the first sign that Dieter is doing something for DCX.
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:02 PM
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okay what exactly is brake by wire? Whats so bad about? Excuse my ignorance
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:18 PM
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Not like this affects us that already have E55's with it.
I never had any complaints.
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:31 PM
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I dont care what magazines said, i liked it.
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Old 11-28-2005, 01:56 PM
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1967 Morris Cooper "S", 1983 911SC, 1997 Toyota Tacoma, 1999 HD FXSTB, 1998 C43
Originally Posted by medici78
Not like this affects us that already have E55's with it.
I never had any complaints.
Obviously you have not read the very numerous complaints on this forum regarding this problem (some very, very serious by the way, like COMPLETE brake failure)....it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now that MB has yanked it..it infers there's an existing problem with their system. So if you have one now with this SBC system, i.e. E55 - keep you eyes peeled.
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Old 11-28-2005, 02:17 PM
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1967 Morris Cooper "S", 1983 911SC, 1997 Toyota Tacoma, 1999 HD FXSTB, 1998 C43
Originally Posted by MHaynes772
okay what exactly is brake by wire? Whats so bad about? Excuse my ignorance
Never apologize for not knowing, that's what this forum is for. Here's a condensed 'reader's digest' version.

Basically instead of having a brake pedal plunging a piston up through through a master cylinder and displacing hydraulic fluid through the various brake lines and ultimately compressing the pistons and pads against the surface of the rotors and clamping down and ultimately slowing the auto down.

The SBC system, uses the physical placment of the brake pedal with a position sensor. There is no mechanical linkage, other than pivot points, per se. Depending on the amount the pedal is depressed, speed of the vehicle and other algorithms. The different factors are 'chiseled' out by the car's onboard computer and will apply braking via electro-hydraulic pistons (electrically actuated) versus totally hydraulic, although MB supposedly has hydraulic backup.

Mercedes is supposed to have hydraulic back-up for this system.

My knowledge is still rudimentary on MB's specific systems, I'll post some more links later. I'm very skeptical of this kind of leap of technology in such a litigious country like ours by MB. Also, the posts I have read thus far on this very forum are very, very scary.

Here's an article about SBC failure. I'll post more stuff once I find some good posts for you guys.


Mr Bobcanada, you better care your very life could depend on it!



http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_mer...rking_brake_2/
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:27 PM
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'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
Originally Posted by StapleGun
Obviously you have not read the very numerous complaints on this forum regarding this problem (some very, very serious by the way, like COMPLETE brake failure)....it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now that MB has yanked it..it infers there's an existing problem with their system. So if you have one now with this SBC system, i.e. E55 - keep you eyes peeled.
I've been around enough to know that some cars have problems.

I'm in no way implying that failures do not occur. However, this could happen in any vehicle, with or without SBC. Out of millions of miles covered by all the cars with SBC, I would be willing to bet the amount of complete brake failures, statistically speaking, is on par with other systems. Thousands of recalls go unheard of all the time. However the press will target this one in particular because it is a premium brand and an exclusive technology.

If M-B was so worried about failures, it would have pulled the plug on the system a lot sooner than allowing 4 entire model years (5 in Europe), worth of production to pass by. It would have actually saved them a lot of money to have simply re-engineer the car with a conventional braking system than to go on with SBC. I'm willing to bet the real problem lies in the complexity of the system, not so much the chance of failure. Just because one part may fail, does not imply you will be left with no brakes. However, it would be much more time consuming and labor intensive to fix than a conventional system. This hits DaimlerChrysler where it hurts most, in the pocketbook.

By your logic, I should drive in fear that my brakes will fail at any moment. Thanks for your concern, but as long as the car is covered under warranty, I'll just enjoy it instead of assuming there is impending doom.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:38 PM
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Truth is, brake by wire hasen't even started in ernest. SBC was an attempt in the right direction, complete brake by wire will become reality someday:

http://www.eweek.com/slideshow/0,1206,a=160254,00.asp
http://www.siemensvdo.com/press/rele...509-005-en.htm

Just think about the added benefits like reduced maintenance, lower cost etc - it will happen rather soon.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:48 PM
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1967 Morris Cooper "S", 1983 911SC, 1997 Toyota Tacoma, 1999 HD FXSTB, 1998 C43
Medici78 take the chance at your own peril. The classic hydraulic system has been around for many, many decades and the chances of failing are miniscule compared to a non-hydraulic system. For the most part, brake failures occur with hydraulic systems are due to negligence and poor maintenance...this does NOT happen on a new car. Secondly, do little research on the topic, on this very forum. Complete and utter failure is exactly what happened. This is not a minor problem, not by a long shot.

I won't argue the fact that the concept is novel and in time may come to pass as commonplace. SBC has been fielded too early, in my opinion. From what I have read thus far, this is gonna bite MB hard in the wallet and rightfully so.
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Old 11-28-2005, 06:07 PM
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1967 Morris Cooper "S", 1983 911SC, 1997 Toyota Tacoma, 1999 HD FXSTB, 1998 C43
Originally Posted by CA_E55
Truth is, brake by wire hasen't even started in ernest. SBC was an attempt in the right direction, complete brake by wire will become reality someday:

http://www.eweek.com/slideshow/0,1206,a=160254,00.asp
http://www.siemensvdo.com/press/rele...509-005-en.htm

Just think about the added benefits like reduced maintenance, lower cost etc - it will happen rather soon.
Can you cite me an example of when a 'new' innnovation has actually meant passed on savings to the consumer or when it might be even better sometimes, think BMW's I-drive?
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Old 11-28-2005, 06:30 PM
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I haven't had any problems w/ my brakes, but did have the recall work done.
My cousing however had complete failure in his 04 E55, he said it wasn't too fun.
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Old 11-28-2005, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWEATR
I haven't had any problems w/ my brakes, but did have the recall work done.
My cousing however had complete failure in his 04 E55, he said it wasn't too fun.
Maybe you'll be the next to die!!! It's inevitable, ALL E55's are DOOMED!!!!We're all in danger!!!!!!

Right, StapleGun?
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by StapleGun
Can you cite me an example of when a 'new' innnovation has actually meant passed on savings to the consumer or when it might be even better sometimes, think BMW's I-drive?
Staple - try the use of LEDs as brake lights rather than using regular bulbs... They light over 50 ms faster which increases the change of some moron running into the back of you when you have to hit those massive AMG rotors in a hurry
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Old 11-29-2005, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by medici78
Maybe you'll be the next to die!!! It's inevitable, ALL E55's are DOOMED!!!!We're all in danger!!!!!!

Right, StapleGun?
Suit yourself buddy....that's a really grown up response. Did you even purchase that car yourself or did daddy buy it for you???

Anyways, if you think I live my life in fear you're sadly mistaken...sad to say you don't even know me. I can't believe that I'm pointing something out to you, about the vehicle you drive and I'm getting unsolicited wise-a$$ remarks for it. It just shows your ignorance I hope I'm wrong and maybe you're just being facetious. Complete brake failure IS NOT a serious concern to you in a friggin NEW car. That must be BC bud you're toking, becuase it ain't the run o' the mill Mexican schwag.

I don't have a dog in this fight...and hey it's your substandard engineered car that MB decided to roll the dice on and hope you die instead of live to sue. I hope I don't have one of my 'friends' scooping your rotting remains into a bag someday and you when you wake up (hopefully not with flames underneath your feet thinking, "....damn, that schmuck staple was right). Lord forbid, it happens when someone you possibly love drives your precious car and it happens when they are behind the wheel. Judging from what I have read you're much too selfish and could really care less about that.

But hey what the hell do I know...

mrankovic....your response is duly noted and well, I'll leave it at that....pretty much the same applies

Last edited by StapleGun; 11-29-2005 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:02 PM
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i've owned three cars in my life, all older used vehicles, in which the master cylinder of the ol' skool hydraulic brake system kakked out on me in the pinch, leaving my ride up some guy's *** in front of me. fortunately, all said events (which happened over a 15 year period, not all at once!) occurred while just getting started from a traffic light, where traffic ahead suddenly stopped. had the damn cylinder not failed at that point, in each instance, i would've been able to stop the fargin' car. there's nothing as bewildering as when your pedal goes to the floor under your foot and nothing happens. what's even worse is when, after the "bang crash", you pump the pedal again and it works just fine. i've never been able to get my mind around that one (which also was the case with each car - some weird way in which these power assists fail, it seems), but hey, if the brakes are gonna fail, they're gonna fail, and whether they're old fashioned technology or new-fangled futurism, the odds say most of us will be lucky, while some smaller group will be numbered among the unfortunate. in 10 or 20 years when cars are hyper-electronic and no longer have any non-electronically-controlled drivetrain and brake parts, all the systems will probably have no different failure rate than the systems in use now.

but that's progress, of a sort.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by StapleGun
Suit yourself buddy....that's a really grown up response. Did you even purchase that car yourself or did daddy buy it for you???

Anyways, if you think I live my life in fear you're sadly mistaken...sad to say you don't even know me. I can't believe that I'm pointing something out to you, about the vehicle you drive and I'm getting unsolicited wise-a$$ remarks for it. It just shows your ignorance I hope I'm wrong and maybe you're just being facetious. Complete brake failure IS NOT a serious concern to you in a friggin NEW car. That must be BC bud you're toking, becuase it ain't the run o' the mill Mexican schwag.

I don't have a dog in this fight...and hey it's your substandard engineered car that MB decided to roll the dice on and hope you die instead of live to sue. I hope I don't have one of my 'friends' scooping your rotting remains into a bag someday and you when you wake up (hopefully not with flames underneath your feet thinking, "....damn, that schmuck staple was right). Lord forbid, it happens when someone you possibly love drives your precious car and it happens when they are behind the wheel. Judging from what I have read you're much too selfish and could really care less about that.

But hey what the hell do I know...

mrankovic....your response is duly noted and well, I'll leave it at that....pretty much the same applies
I was being facetious.

Nope, I don't know you. But you really seem to know a lot about me.
I'm selfish, daddy bought my car, and oh yes, I'm also immature.

You dont even know what I do for a living, nor how old I am, nor my education level. But hey, I'm the immature and "selfish" one and you figured me out anyway.

From someone who does not live their life in fear, they sure do want others to do so.

From your responses it sounds like you are offended that someone who would spend $90k on a car would rather enjoy it than worry incessantly about a brake failure which, whether you believe it or not, is not a common occurence.

I guess I'll just join all the other W211 E55 owners who will the perilous drive home this afternoon in our "substandard" $90k 500hp cars.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by medici78
I was being facetious.

Nope, I don't know you. But you really seem to know a lot about me.
I'm selfish, daddy bought my car, and oh yes, I'm also immature.

You dont even know what I do for a living, nor how old I am, nor my education level. But hey, I'm the immature and "selfish" one and you figured me out anyway.

From someone who does not live their life in fear, they sure do want others to do so.

From your responses it sounds like you are offended that someone who would spend $90k on a car would rather enjoy it than worry incessantly about a brake failure which, whether you believe it or not, is not a common occurence.

I guess I'll just join all the other W211 E55 owners who will the perilous drive home this afternoon in our "substandard" $90k 500hp cars.
Hey if you're being facetious fine, how would I know? Like I said we don't know each other and I'm not saying live in fear by any means.

All I know, is that it has been two or three different members with a relatively new car (all of them E55's), experience these pretty serious problems. That is all I wanted to convey to you, not to instill fear, by any means.

I have, many years ago, and with a car as old as me....experience a complete brake failure and fortunately in that lil' Mini Cooper the only person I probably would have killed is myself. After pumping the brakes frantically I was able to build up the presssure enough to stop. I only blame myself for that though, a broke college kid which should have parked the car until I could afford a restore, but I was stupid. Every junction in that hydraulic system was rusty from previous years of neglect.

With a car with 300+ ponies - I figured you would like to keep it intact along with yourself that's all. So happy motoring no one's wishing you ill here in FL.
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