What is the maximum power can be produced by a supercharger?
12-18-2005, 05:03 PM
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What is the maximum power can be produced by a supercharger?
Maybe it s a noob question but where is the limit of output for a supercharger?
12-18-2005, 08:04 PM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Originally Posted by BoBcanada
Maybe it s a noob question but where is the limit of output for a supercharger?
The amount of boost a supercharger provides is measured in cfm (cubic feet per minute) at a maximum rpm. Provided the engine internals, the fuel delivery system and the computer can cope with all of the additional air then the max cfm the supercharger provides should have a non limiting relationship with the amount of horsepower you end up with.
12-18-2005, 08:25 PM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Excellent.
Infinite horsepower.
Infinite horsepower.
Clearly you are just kidding or you have a problem with comprehension.
Last edited by WyattEarp; 12-18-2005 at 08:28 PM.
12-18-2005, 09:24 PM
#7
Originally Posted by WyattEarp
No. I was very clear. I said the the supercharger would not have a limiting relationship. Clearly the engine and fuel delivery systems would become the limiting factors then.
Clearly you are just kidding or you have a problem with comprehension.
Clearly you are just kidding or you have a problem with comprehension.
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12-18-2005, 09:34 PM
#8
Power is airflow. Current 55K kompressor is somewhere around 2.2L of displacement. An old rule of thumb for positive displacement superchargers was 300HP per liter. That brings up to 660HP, given that srew is around 8-10% more efficient than roots type. Our limit out of this blower is in low 700s.
12-18-2005, 09:38 PM
#9
Originally Posted by WyattEarp
No. I was very clear. I said the the supercharger would not have a limiting relationship. Clearly the engine and fuel delivery systems would become the limiting factors then.
Clearly you are just kidding or you have a problem with comprehension.
Clearly you are just kidding or you have a problem with comprehension.
12-18-2005, 09:53 PM
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2003 CL55 Kompressor Horizon Blue Metallic
Originally Posted by Vadim @ evosport
Power is airflow. Current 55K kompressor is somewhere around 2.2L of displacement. An old rule of thumb for positive displacement superchargers was 300HP per liter. That brings up to 660HP, given that srew is around 8-10% more efficient than roots type. Our limit out of this blower is in low 700s.
Last edited by mclarenm8d; 12-18-2005 at 09:57 PM.
12-18-2005, 10:08 PM
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If you keep spinning a supercharger faster and faster w/o modifying the engine to increase flow, boost will build and you will run up against the adiabatic efficiency component of boosted engines. The boosted air will become hotter and hotter until it reaches a point when no more power can be made. Go any farther with boost and you will start to lose power. Where this point is on the E55 engine will probably be determined by the somewhat limiting IC used on these engines. I doubt if they'll make it to 700 HP w/o juice.
12-18-2005, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
No! Whoops. I guess I was misunderstood. I'm a very very sarcastic person as a lot of my friends will tell you.
12-18-2005, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BoBcanada
what if the engine will have stronger internals? What the limit of that then?
12-18-2005, 10:54 PM
#15
Vadim, thanks for the info on this ... IMC, 2.2 L also happens to be a popular displacement for the Kenne Bell set-ups on America V8's, and in the ~700hp range.Today 06:38 PM
If you keep spinning a supercharger faster and faster w/o modifying the engine to increase flow, boost will build and you will run up against the adiabatic efficiency component of boosted engines. The boosted air will become hotter and hotter until it reaches a point when no more power can be made. Go any farther with boost and you will start to lose power. Where this point is on the E55 engine will probably be determined by the somewhat limiting IC used on these engines. I doubt if they'll make it to 700 HP w/o juice.
MKB apparently squeezed 730Hp out of the SLR. I don't know how different the SC/Block/Internals are from the 55 but I'd guess they'd be comparable
That sounds about right, they are at the limit on the kompressor airflow.
The engines are the same, except SLR is a dry sump.
12-18-2005, 11:04 PM
#16
Agree. Intercooler setup and head flow will eventually limit how much more air can go through the engine. Stock head does not flow very well on exhaust, barely over 170 cfm at 0.450''.
12-19-2005, 08:34 AM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Originally Posted by R. Range
Actually your original post is incorrect. Boost is a measurement of pressure and is expressed in psi, not cfm. Airflow is measured in cfm and is a separate concept. The combination of the two is sometimes expressed as massflow. Moreover, a given supercharger has an upper limit beyond which it can no longer efficiently move air and therefore your claim that a supercharger would not limit the potential horsepower of a given system if the fuel delivery and engine management can keep up makes no sense. If power output were limited ony by fuel delivery and engine management there would be no need for more than one size and type of supercharger.
Thanks for your correction
12-19-2005, 09:51 AM
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2012 C63 Coupe Iridium Silver
Originally Posted by BoBcanada
what if the engine will have stronger internals? What the limit of that then?
now thats reliable
Really bob is this plain random curiousity or are u planning something outrageous. Surely nobody knows the exact limit of these engines but derek with his stage 2 + nos resulting in the sellling of his engine/car seems to be the benchmark around here
12-19-2005, 02:04 PM
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
Centrifugals can boost up to 30PSI.
In fact, Procharger makes 12 units that can go beyond 30 PSI: http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml
12-19-2005, 04:10 PM
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Oh man, you can go to the moon with superchargers if you upgrade/match all of the other integral internals and electronic control settings controlling everything else -- look at the ricers getting over a 1000 hp......
But who'd want to do that to their German (sports) luxury sedan?
But who'd want to do that to their German (sports) luxury sedan?
12-19-2005, 04:25 PM
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2003 CL55 Kompressor Horizon Blue Metallic
Originally Posted by ClayJ
Oh man, you can go to the moon with superchargers if you upgrade/match all of the other integral internals and electronic control settings controlling everything else -- look at the ricers getting over a 1000 hp......
But who'd want to do that to their German (sports) luxury sedan?
But who'd want to do that to their German (sports) luxury sedan?
"Uber Deutschelander Panzer Wagen" doesn't fit on license plates in Illinois, so I'm thinking of going with "NEOMOPAR" instead.
Joking, of course, on the above statement ... but true story, a friend of mine didn't understand why I wanted a Motorhead sticker for the back glass of my CL55.
12-19-2005, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
There are lots of superchargers that can go beyond 30 PSI. In fact, Procharger makes 12 units that can go beyond 30 PSI: http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml
In fact, Procharger makes 12 units that can go beyond 30 PSI: http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml
12-19-2005, 04:56 PM
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I was going to have built and bring an EV12 into the country -- just for the fun of it. I am seriously considering having an S65 built now that the 07's are out. I still think about a Maybach 57S with the biturbo 12....
But I have performance cars which were designed around their 600-plus horsepower, and they are always satisfying to drive for that reason. I think that one could easily 'ruin' an E55 with too much power, especially if all of the other mechanicals weren't modded to cope....
Can one ever have too much horsepower? Nope. Can one put too much horsepower in a given vehicle? Yep.
Just my thoughts.....
But I have performance cars which were designed around their 600-plus horsepower, and they are always satisfying to drive for that reason. I think that one could easily 'ruin' an E55 with too much power, especially if all of the other mechanicals weren't modded to cope....
Can one ever have too much horsepower? Nope. Can one put too much horsepower in a given vehicle? Yep.
Just my thoughts.....
12-19-2005, 07:29 PM
#25
Vadim, speaking of heads, has anyone tried ported heads on a 55K engine?
Exhaust valve is shouded and going bigger on the valve only kills flow. With some welding and reshaping of combustion chamber more improvemets are possible.
In the end exhaust flow is what is going to limit these motors.
