*** 80mm AMG Throttle Body ***
05-30-2006, 08:02 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by Grumpy666
The dimpled surface of the golf ball is addressing a different problem than air flowing through a port. As a golf ball flies through the air (or any object traveling through a fluid), it leaves behind a pocket of low pressure, which causes drag. The dimples cause turbulence near the surface of the ball, which causes the airflow to follow the curvature of the ball more closely. This reduces the size of the low-pressure pocket, which reduces drag. The ball travels farther.
Air flowing through a port needs to be kept as laminar as possible to produce the most flow. Any turbulence that causes drag will hinder flow. This is also true in a dry intake system, where no fuel is present. If there is fuel mixed with the air, a rough surface is beneficial. The turbulence caused near the rough surface helps keep the fuel atomized and prevents droplets from forming on the surface, which would happen if the surface were smooth.
Air flowing through a port needs to be kept as laminar as possible to produce the most flow. Any turbulence that causes drag will hinder flow. This is also true in a dry intake system, where no fuel is present. If there is fuel mixed with the air, a rough surface is beneficial. The turbulence caused near the rough surface helps keep the fuel atomized and prevents droplets from forming on the surface, which would happen if the surface were smooth.
05-30-2006, 08:44 PM
#77
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04 E55
Originally Posted by eclou
Just for clarification there are almost no wet-manifold systems anymore. The last of the TBI cars died off thankfully in the late 1980's. The only wet systems nowadays tend to be NOS and water/meth injection add-ons.
05-30-2006, 08:54 PM
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S600TT, R350
Notice inside there is a V groove.. Weird how they put that air splitter there.. Not sure why but it is interesting..
In my experience playing with screw compressors, they need a lot of inlet airflow from the throttle body side.
That V restrictor could be there not to improve the airflow, but to limit it.
The only way to find out is to test one with it and one without. Although the piece itself is fairly cheap, the labor will be expensive. If am I not mistaken it is over 11 hours to install compressor inlet. It will have be done at least twice or even three times.
I am guessing in the end of the day you will be at 510-520 RWHP.
05-30-2006, 09:08 PM
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Parts are Parts so let's Go Fast.
Vrus,
If these parts do kick ***, I'm going to need to do the same thing to my 05'
MachC5
If these parts do kick ***, I'm going to need to do the same thing to my 05'
MachC5
05-30-2006, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Eleanor Owner
Please excuse how naive I may sound (you're obviously quite knowledgeable about this type of physics), but does this relate to the rough surface of our diffusers? I had mine sanded smooth and painted and, while I can't imagine it causing a measurable difference, I'm starting to reconsider decision in doing so...
05-31-2006, 11:09 AM
#82
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2003 E55 AMG
Install date set... Dealer is doing the install next Monday. They are replacing my supercharger clutch pack with the latest 2006 model and installing my 80mm TB and related parts... Let's just hope that once they take it all apart they dont find something that doesn't fit...
05-31-2006, 11:17 AM
#83
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2003 E55 AMG
Hey Vadim,
I hear you... The re/re of the inlet is time consuming.. Everyone keeps saying that you have to pull the SC out to do it, but when I look at the piece installed in the car and look at this piece off the car, there are only 3 bolts at the bottom that need to be removed/tightened to get the inlet off.. Why does the SC have to come out to replace this part? It looks as though it can be done while the SC is still in the car???
If I do end up at the 520rwhp that means I have to make up another 54rwhp between heads & cams.. I need 574rwhp to be at the 700hp mark.
Everything I have seen so far tells me this mod is good for 25 - 30rwhp so it should deliver the goods. If it works out, you are welcomed to purchase one if you want it.
I hear you... The re/re of the inlet is time consuming.. Everyone keeps saying that you have to pull the SC out to do it, but when I look at the piece installed in the car and look at this piece off the car, there are only 3 bolts at the bottom that need to be removed/tightened to get the inlet off.. Why does the SC have to come out to replace this part? It looks as though it can be done while the SC is still in the car???
If I do end up at the 520rwhp that means I have to make up another 54rwhp between heads & cams.. I need 574rwhp to be at the 700hp mark.
Originally Posted by Vadim @ MBSB
Victor:
In my experience playing with screw compressors, they need a lot of inlet airflow from the throttle body side.
That V restrictor could be there not to improve the airflow, but to limit it.
The only way to find out is to test one with it and one without. Although the piece itself is fairly cheap, the labor will be expensive. If am I not mistaken it is over 11 hours to install compressor inlet. It will have be done at least twice or even three times.
I am guessing in the end of the day you will be at 510-520 RWHP.
In my experience playing with screw compressors, they need a lot of inlet airflow from the throttle body side.
That V restrictor could be there not to improve the airflow, but to limit it.
The only way to find out is to test one with it and one without. Although the piece itself is fairly cheap, the labor will be expensive. If am I not mistaken it is over 11 hours to install compressor inlet. It will have be done at least twice or even three times.
I am guessing in the end of the day you will be at 510-520 RWHP.
Originally Posted by MACHC5
Vrus,
If these parts do kick ***, I'm going to need to do the same thing to my 05'
MachC5
If these parts do kick ***, I'm going to need to do the same thing to my 05'
MachC5
06-01-2006, 11:52 AM
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S600TT, R350
Everyone keeps saying that you have to pull the SC out to do it, but when I look at the piece installed in the car and look at this piece off the car, there are only 3 bolts at the bottom that need to be removed/tightened to get the inlet off.. Why does the SC have to come out to replace this part? It looks as though it can be done while the SC is still in the car???
If I do end up at the 520rwhp that means I have to make up another 54rwhp between heads & cams..
Good Luck!
06-01-2006, 02:40 PM
#86
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2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by Vadim @ MBSB
Victor, there is a bypass valve that is mounted below. I do not think you will be able to disconnected it without removing whole SC assembly.
That is very feasible, stock cams are very mild and stock heads flow rather poorly. The key will be getting everything tuned to work together.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
I am still looking for them.. The dealer wants $8,600 for a pair of BARE heads!!!!!As for cams, I am going to move forward with the SLR cams as soon as the TB is installed and verified to be working properly. Then, using my stock cams I'll get someone to make a custom grind by copying the stockers and making some modifications.
54rwhp should be no problem between those 2 elements.. I am more worried about my transmission holding up..
06-01-2006, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Vadim @ MBSB
Victor, there is a bypass valve that is mounted below. I do not think you will be able to disconnected it without removing whole SC assembly.
06-01-2006, 08:41 PM
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BMW E39
Originally Posted by vrus
54rwhp should be no problem between those 2 elements.. I am more worried about my transmission holding up..
06-05-2006, 03:21 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
Car was dropped off for TB install this morning.
We hit our first snafu....
After taking the TB off the car to do a preliminary inspection we found out 2 things:
1) The new 80mm AMG TB WONT bolt up to the stock supercharger inlet so a new inlet or an adapter is required.
2) The 2003 Euro SL55 that we used to research this and find this part doesnt seem to have a RECIRCULATION VALVE/FLAP on it and therefore this new supercharger inlet is missing the hole for the recirculation flap to mount up to.
I never noticed this the whole time I had this piece in my hand. Either the Euro cars dont have the recirculation flap at all or it was missing from the early production cars and then introduced later to help limit onset of boost and thus save the transmission.
Now, I need to do a bit more research and see if I can find the proper inlet piece for this TB.
Ho hum... back to the drawing board...
We hit our first snafu....
After taking the TB off the car to do a preliminary inspection we found out 2 things:
1) The new 80mm AMG TB WONT bolt up to the stock supercharger inlet so a new inlet or an adapter is required.
2) The 2003 Euro SL55 that we used to research this and find this part doesnt seem to have a RECIRCULATION VALVE/FLAP on it and therefore this new supercharger inlet is missing the hole for the recirculation flap to mount up to.
I never noticed this the whole time I had this piece in my hand. Either the Euro cars dont have the recirculation flap at all or it was missing from the early production cars and then introduced later to help limit onset of boost and thus save the transmission.
Now, I need to do a bit more research and see if I can find the proper inlet piece for this TB.
Ho hum... back to the drawing board...
...
06-06-2006, 09:23 AM
#93
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Another thing might be a help...
There is this German (www.evotech.de) company quotes that is has 700HP package for E55K...for 40000 EURO...
Its includes in German:
Bestandteile
ELS+Pully+FächerK.+DK+Luftführung+Ladeluftkühler+A irbox+Getriebeverstärkung
There is this German (www.evotech.de) company quotes that is has 700HP package for E55K...for 40000 EURO...
Its includes in German:
Bestandteile
ELS+Pully+FächerK.+DK+Luftführung+Ladeluftkühler+A irbox+Getriebeverstärkung
06-06-2006, 11:12 AM
#94
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2003 E55 AMG
Well.. to keep this project moving, this is what I am doing now..
Ordering a new stock supercharger inlet. I will have it milled down and bored out to 80mm opening.
I will get a CNC aluminum adapter plate made up which will adapt the mounting holes on the stock inlet to the AMG 80mm TB.
In the meantime I will try to get some more info on the 2007 SL55 and its TB & inlet assembly to see if the part #s are different than the previous years. If they are I might order them as well to compare.
I am determined to make this work, so one way or another this project will get done.
Ordering a new stock supercharger inlet. I will have it milled down and bored out to 80mm opening.
I will get a CNC aluminum adapter plate made up which will adapt the mounting holes on the stock inlet to the AMG 80mm TB.
In the meantime I will try to get some more info on the 2007 SL55 and its TB & inlet assembly to see if the part #s are different than the previous years. If they are I might order them as well to compare.
I am determined to make this work, so one way or another this project will get done.
06-06-2006, 12:07 PM
#96
Originally Posted by vrus
Well.. to keep this project moving, this is what I am doing now..
Ordering a new stock supercharger inlet. I will have it milled down and bored out to 80mm opening.
I will get a CNC aluminum adapter plate made up which will adapt the mounting holes on the stock inlet to the AMG 80mm TB.
In the meantime I will try to get some more info on the 2007 SL55 and its TB & inlet assembly to see if the part #s are different than the previous years. If they are I might order them as well to compare.
I am determined to make this work, so one way or another this project will get done.
Ordering a new stock supercharger inlet. I will have it milled down and bored out to 80mm opening.
I will get a CNC aluminum adapter plate made up which will adapt the mounting holes on the stock inlet to the AMG 80mm TB.
In the meantime I will try to get some more info on the 2007 SL55 and its TB & inlet assembly to see if the part #s are different than the previous years. If they are I might order them as well to compare.
I am determined to make this work, so one way or another this project will get done.
06-08-2006, 02:29 PM
#98
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2003 E55 AMG
Ordered another supercharger inlet from Germany. It will arrive sometime next week. Hopefully no more surprises after this...
M5 Rus,
My car actually doesnt have alot of downtime.. I schedule my installs around my schedule and around regular service work. The only annoying thing has been figuring out the supercharger shutoff and driving around with "BETA" ECU maps while testing..
P.S-> I have 73,000Km on my car so far..
Originally Posted by M5 RUS
This would be most expensive tuning ever done for E55...
Hope it works out...your car probaly spend more time in the shop then you driving it...
Hope it works out...your car probaly spend more time in the shop then you driving it...
My car actually doesnt have alot of downtime.. I schedule my installs around my schedule and around regular service work. The only annoying thing has been figuring out the supercharger shutoff and driving around with "BETA" ECU maps while testing..
P.S-> I have 73,000Km on my car so far..
06-29-2006, 09:56 AM
#99
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2003 E55 AMG
I am working on 2 parallels right now.. I ordered a new stock supercharger inlet which I received. The machine shop is working on mating the 80mm AMG TB to the inlet. It should be done by Wedn next week (they are busy and this is the long weekend).
At the same time I am working on the original inlet I bought (the one without the bypass in it -- which is a complete bolt-up to the 80mm AMG TB) to see if we can get the electronics for the bypass valve to be circumvented. That bypass valve on its own is good for at least 20hp - 30hp based on some talks I've had with a few different people.
If we can come up with a way to stop the ECU from bleeding off boost we would see a fairly significant increase in power right through the rev range. My programmer in Germany has been looking for the code in the ECU that controls this part but he cannot find it (Powerchip, Kleemann, and everyone else hasnt been able to figure it out either).
At the same time I am working on the original inlet I bought (the one without the bypass in it -- which is a complete bolt-up to the 80mm AMG TB) to see if we can get the electronics for the bypass valve to be circumvented. That bypass valve on its own is good for at least 20hp - 30hp based on some talks I've had with a few different people.
If we can come up with a way to stop the ECU from bleeding off boost we would see a fairly significant increase in power right through the rev range. My programmer in Germany has been looking for the code in the ECU that controls this part but he cannot find it (Powerchip, Kleemann, and everyone else hasnt been able to figure it out either).
06-30-2006, 06:48 AM
#100
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Originally Posted by vrus
My programmer in Germany has been looking for the code in the ECU that controls this part but he cannot find it (Powerchip, Kleemann, and everyone else hasnt been able to figure it out either).
