Grumpy666

You're comparing apples to oranges. When you turn a bottle upside down, the liquid gulps out because as the liquid exits the bottle, a partial vacuum is formed behind the liquid. This partial vacuum tries to hold back the flow of liquid. As more liquid exits and the vacuum increases, atmospheric pressure eventually pushes air into the bottle, causing the gulp.

When you swirl the liquid in the bottle, you're forming a vortex. This vortex provides a path for air to enter the bottle, which prevents the partial vacuum from forming. Thus, the liquid flows faster.

Air flows the best when it is laminar. Any turbulence, such as swirl, will reduce flow.

newton22

Wouldn't a larger intake, but stock TB, increase the rate and pressure of the air going in? You're taking more air and squeezing it into the same...hole.

Anyways, I'm not gonna argue that you will benefit significantly with the 80.

Grumpy666

The best location for the tube opening is the area of highest pressure. Back in the day, when ram air was all the rage, we determined the best input locations for various cars by using clear, plastic tubing and colored water. We would place an open end of the tube at an area of interest in the front of the car. The tube was fed into the passenger compartment and attached to a small piece of wood that had a sheet of lined paper taped to it. The attached tube was in a U formation on the wood. We poured colored water into the tube until it was about half way up the U on both sides, and then screwed a bolt into the end to seal it. The at-rest position of the water was marked and then the fun began. We used a deserted stretch of road and drove at 80+ mph for a sustained period and marked the water position. Then move the tube and go again. While this did identify the best locations, it also indicated that you had to be near triple digit speeds for any appreciable pressure increase.

Grumpy666

No. It doesn't matter how large the tube is - the pressure does not change - it is atmospheric pressure. At a given pressure with an adequate air supply, the TB will flow a given amount of air. Making more air available will not increase the flow. Increasing flow through the TB requires a larger pressure differential across the TB.

vrus

Wow! That is a pretty imaginative way to test...

I guess it was rather difficult to lease time at your local wind tunnel...

vader

Grump knows that gage is called a manometer ! But Grump if you sealed one end it wouldn't work if I remember correctly...but that is a very wise way to determine high pressure...friend of mine owns a very early 70 Camaro prostock that he restored...coincidentally that car Grumpy's Toy !! Grumpy Jenkins was a pioneer in drag racing...there were at least 3 iterations of hood scoops to try and find that magical pressure zone !!! To this day those hoods are still called Grump Lumps to Chevy die hard drag racers !!! Sorry to go off topic..

Jakpro1

Awww mannnn,

I think I figured it out. Renn sells you the CF airbox, then you throw K&N's/High Flow Air Filters to go with it and BAM, 10-15hp increase. People think it's the box, when it's the K&N's.......(cough) special high flow air filters I mean.

Let us know when you get it V.

Grumpy666

Why yes, yes it would. By sealing one end, you trap air between the water and bolt at atmospheric pressure. When air at the open end rises above atmospheric pressure, the pressure in that side of the tube rises and pushes against the water. This causes the water to rise in the closed end, which compresses the trapped air. When the pressure on both sides of the water is equal, the water level stops moving. Then you mark the level.

The closed-volume reference works well when you use small diameter tubing, a small volume of water, and a short U. Think about how easily you can blow water out of a straw. In retrospec, I think a funnel attached to the open end might increase the sensitivity.

Bill Jenkins was The Man back then. He was a Chevy ray of hope against the barrage of hemis and side oilers. He's still active with engine building and continues to walk around with that cigar sticking out of his face.

vrus

Well.. I ordered a brand new STOCK air box assembly (left & right), air tubes, Y-pipe, and clamps. Just in case the Renntech stuff doesnt show up when expected I can at least get the CF guys going by using the stock stuff as a starting point.

They dont seem to stock anything here in Canada.. It figures they have to bring it in from Germany again... Should be here next week.

vader

VRUS....keep that little bypass valve in the back of your mind...!!

Kev04C320

Hey Victor,

I have a set of airbox spare sitting in my apartment. I can send them to you for R&D

stevebez

What size air filter / air box does the V12 motor use ... that might be a usefull starting point.

vrus

Yeah.. Programmer is still looking for the code. I am VERY suprised that no one has been able to find it.. Although I believe Wetterhaurer found it because they claim to be able to modify its operating with their ECU update.

Does anyone have a Wetterhaurer ECU that I could dump the microcode from?

Kev,

I appreciate the offer, but I had to bite the bullet and order a brand new set because the CF guys wanted something that wasnt heat cycled so that they could get exact measurements from it.

Yup.. Good idea. Not sure what the air filter looks like. We are basically working from the 355mm x 134mm dimensions. We are searching through the K&N catalogue for any size that provides a 15 - 20% surface area increase and compiling a list of "candidates"..

stevebez

Victor - how are they going to increase the dimensions if they working off the stock airbox ? Is this going to be the reference point?

vrus

Correct. It's a reference point for the mounting locations and basic shape.

2MANYCARS

Vic,
Have you received the wire transfer from me?

vrus

We still have 2 guys MIA...

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vrus

Renntech airbox is a no-show so far..

New stock airbox assembly should be here next week (no stock in Canada, so its coming from Germany)..

MACHC5

Vic, Here is a photo I found of the GruppeM E55 intake.
The price is $3,795.00

MachC5

Griffin337

That thing is AWESOME!!!! .. I cant wait until this thing is done and BLOWS that one away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vrus

Definitely a good looking piece of equipment!! I just dont like the fact that they designed the air tubes to sit behind the grille and not be attached to it.

Also, I chose the Renntech Airbox to test over the GruppeM because I've heard the GruppeM design does not yield any more power. That would make sense since they've kept the rubber connectors & Y-pipe into the TB stock so that would be the bottle neck. Even if they increased the airbox sizes, the tubes leading to the TB are still stock so they can only flow so much air.


Ahh.. I see you are honing your psychic abilities and are able to forsee the future. We will definitely come out with a better product for less money and will be more complete than either the GruppeM or Renntech box! That you can count on!

vrus

Just got a call from the parts guy.. Stock airbox assemblies have landed from Germany.. Going down to pick them up on Thursday and will drop them off at CF company either Thursday afternoon or Friday.

Renntech box still not here... Man these guys are SLLLLOOOOOWWWW!

xxaarraa

hmmm.

vrus

hmmm.. what? Is something wrong?

dragonAMG

yes... he has only 9 posts.... he hasn't been around the community long enough to understand and appreciate the comradery, trust and willingness to help one another out with the expectation of nothing in return.