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Jul 25, 2006 | 05:19 PM

#226

Grumpy666

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ENDSMTG

I am also an advocate for some type of swirl effect. I have read the other post regarding such, but feel that air moving in that fashion increases volume! Take for instance a 2 liter bottle. If you turn it upside down the liquid inside just gulps out. This is the exchange of liquid/air. However, if you spin the bottle creating a funnel effect the liquid comes out 10x as fast! Wouldn't this be similar in principle???????????????????

You're comparing apples to oranges. When you turn a bottle upside down, the liquid gulps out because as the liquid exits the bottle, a partial vacuum is formed behind the liquid. This partial vacuum tries to hold back the flow of liquid. As more liquid exits and the vacuum increases, atmospheric pressure eventually pushes air into the bottle, causing the gulp.

When you swirl the liquid in the bottle, you're forming a vortex. This vortex provides a path for air to enter the bottle, which prevents the partial vacuum from forming. Thus, the liquid flows faster.

Air flows the best when it is laminar. Any turbulence, such as swirl, will reduce flow.

Jul 25, 2006 | 05:24 PM

#227

newton22

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From: Sugar Land, TX

BMW E39

Wouldn't a larger intake, but stock TB, increase the rate and pressure of the air going in? You're taking more air and squeezing it into the same...hole.

Anyways, I'm not gonna argue that you will benefit significantly with the 80.

Jul 25, 2006 | 05:43 PM

#228

Grumpy666

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vrus

The idea I was playing with was to extend the 2 tubes from the airboxes down into the mesh grille area (either on each side of the car where the fog lights are or both in the center grille). This would allow the use of a big scoop or 2 ram funnels. I left the project in the middle because I got occupied with other things, but, maybe a quick revisit and some testing would be in order now that we are redesigning the intake boxes anyways.

The best location for the tube opening is the area of highest pressure. Back in the day, when ram air was all the rage, we determined the best input locations for various cars by using clear, plastic tubing and colored water. We would place an open end of the tube at an area of interest in the front of the car. The tube was fed into the passenger compartment and attached to a small piece of wood that had a sheet of lined paper taped to it. The attached tube was in a U formation on the wood. We poured colored water into the tube until it was about half way up the U on both sides, and then screwed a bolt into the end to seal it. The at-rest position of the water was marked and then the fun began. We used a deserted stretch of road and drove at 80+ mph for a sustained period and marked the water position. Then move the tube and go again. While this did identify the best locations, it also indicated that you had to be near triple digit speeds for any appreciable pressure increase.

Jul 25, 2006 | 05:59 PM

#229

Grumpy666

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Quote:

Originally Posted by newton22

Wouldn't a larger intake, but stock TB, increase the rate and pressure of the air going in? You're taking more air and squeezing it into the same...hole.

No. It doesn't matter how large the tube is - the pressure does not change - it is atmospheric pressure. At a given pressure with an adequate air supply, the TB will flow a given amount of air. Making more air available will not increase the flow. Increasing flow through the TB requires a larger pressure differential across the TB.

Jul 25, 2006 | 07:36 PM

#230

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Wow! That is a pretty imaginative way to test...

I guess it was rather difficult to lease time at your local wind tunnel...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy666

Jul 25, 2006 | 10:35 PM

#231

vader

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From: Chicago

04 E55

Grump knows that gage is called a manometer ! But Grump if you sealed one end it wouldn't work if I remember correctly...but that is a very wise way to determine high pressure...friend of mine owns a very early 70 Camaro prostock that he restored...coincidentally that car Grumpy's Toy !! Grumpy Jenkins was a pioneer in drag racing...there were at least 3 iterations of hood scoops to try and find that magical pressure zone !!! To this day those hoods are still called Grump Lumps to Chevy die hard drag racers !!! Sorry to go off topic..

Jul 25, 2006 | 10:52 PM

#232

Jakpro1

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From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)

2003 E55 & 2014 GL550

Awww mannnn,

I think I figured it out. Renn sells you the CF airbox, then you throw K&N's/High Flow Air Filters to go with it and BAM, 10-15hp increase. People think it's the box, when it's the K&N's.......(cough) special high flow air filters I mean.

Let us know when you get it V.

Jul 25, 2006 | 11:35 PM

#233

Grumpy666

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vader

But Grump if you sealed one end it wouldn't work if I remember correctly...

Why yes, yes it would. By sealing one end, you trap air between the water and bolt at atmospheric pressure. When air at the open end rises above atmospheric pressure, the pressure in that side of the tube rises and pushes against the water. This causes the water to rise in the closed end, which compresses the trapped air. When the pressure on both sides of the water is equal, the water level stops moving. Then you mark the level.

The closed-volume reference works well when you use small diameter tubing, a small volume of water, and a short U. Think about how easily you can blow water out of a straw. In retrospec, I think a funnel attached to the open end might increase the sensitivity.

Bill Jenkins was The Man back then. He was a Chevy ray of hope against the barrage of hemis and side oilers. He's still active with engine building and continues to walk around with that cigar sticking out of his face.

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Jul 26, 2006 | 10:47 AM

#234

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Well.. I ordered a brand new STOCK air box assembly (left & right), air tubes, Y-pipe, and clamps. Just in case the Renntech stuff doesnt show up when expected I can at least get the CF guys going by using the stock stuff as a starting point.

They dont seem to stock anything here in Canada.. It figures they have to bring it in from Germany again... Should be here next week.

Jul 26, 2006 | 11:46 PM

#235

vader

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04 E55

VRUS....keep that little bypass valve in the back of your mind...!!

Jul 27, 2006 | 07:59 AM

#236

Kev04C320

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From: Seattle, WA

'09 911 C4S

Hey Victor,

I have a set of airbox spare sitting in my apartment. I can send them to you for R&D

Jul 27, 2006 | 08:46 AM

#237

stevebez

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From: London, UK

No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo

What size air filter / air box does the V12 motor use ... that might be a usefull starting point.

Jul 27, 2006 | 09:44 AM

#238

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Yeah.. Programmer is still looking for the code. I am VERY suprised that no one has been able to find it.. Although I believe Wetterhaurer found it because they claim to be able to modify its operating with their ECU update.

Does anyone have a Wetterhaurer ECU that I could dump the microcode from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader

VRUS....keep that little bypass valve in the back of your mind...!!

Kev,

I appreciate the offer, but I had to bite the bullet and order a brand new set because the CF guys wanted something that wasnt heat cycled so that they could get exact measurements from it.

Quote:

Hey Victor,

I have a set of airbox spare sitting in my apartment. I can send them to you for R&D

Yup.. Good idea. Not sure what the air filter looks like. We are basically working from the 355mm x 134mm dimensions. We are searching through the K&N catalogue for any size that provides a 15 - 20% surface area increase and compiling a list of "candidates"..

Quote:

What size air filter / air box does the V12 motor use ... that might be a usefull starting point.

Last edited by vrus; Jul 27, 2006 at 09:47 AM.

Jul 27, 2006 | 11:24 AM

#239

stevebez

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From: London, UK

No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo

Victor - how are they going to increase the dimensions if they working off the stock airbox ? Is this going to be the reference point?

Jul 27, 2006 | 11:49 AM

#240

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Correct. It's a reference point for the mounting locations and basic shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebez

Victor - how are they going to increase the dimensions if they working off the stock airbox ? Is this going to be the reference point?

Jul 27, 2006 | 05:09 PM

#241

2MANYCARS

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From: Long Island & Hong Kong

20+ to list......

Vic,
Have you received the wire transfer from me?

Jul 28, 2006 | 05:08 PM

#242

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

We still have 2 guys MIA...

Payment Status
-------------------

Total Participants: 29
Total Paid: 27

2MANYCARS ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Apple '55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
bfnnrgn ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
catalystkid ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
DocStone .......................
dsc ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
e55 baller ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
e55 killer ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
ENDSMTG ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Fleebee ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Griffin337 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
GTA23109a .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Jakpro1 .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
JAY55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
jparch ....................... $200.00 RECEIVED (CASH)
KEE55AMG .......................
Kens-E55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Kev04C320 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Loren ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
M5KILLR ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
MACHC5 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Mad TKD ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
mstenberg ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
oblax4 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
rboorgu .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Rock ....................... $200.00 RECEIVED (WIRED)
stevebez ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
vader ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
W211E55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED

Jul 29, 2006 | 10:12 AM

#243

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Renntech airbox is a no-show so far..

New stock airbox assembly should be here next week (no stock in Canada, so its coming from Germany)..

Jul 29, 2006 | 08:42 PM

#244

MACHC5

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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.

Vic, Here is a photo I found of the GruppeM E55 intake.
The price is $3,795.00

MachC5

Last edited by MACHC5; Jul 29, 2006 at 08:54 PM.

Jul 29, 2006 | 10:09 PM

#245

Griffin337

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From: Sarasota, FL

E55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACHC5

Vic, Here is a photo I found of the GruppeM E55 intake.
The price is $3,795.00

MachC5

That thing is AWESOME!!!! .. I cant wait until this thing is done and BLOWS that one away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jul 30, 2006 | 12:28 PM

#246

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Definitely a good looking piece of equipment!! I just dont like the fact that they designed the air tubes to sit behind the grille and not be attached to it.

Also, I chose the Renntech Airbox to test over the GruppeM because I've heard the GruppeM design does not yield any more power. That would make sense since they've kept the rubber connectors & Y-pipe into the TB stock so that would be the bottle neck. Even if they increased the airbox sizes, the tubes leading to the TB are still stock so they can only flow so much air.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACHC5

Vic, Here is a photo I found of the GruppeM E55 intake.
The price is $3,795.00

MachC5

Ahh.. I see you are honing your psychic abilities and are able to forsee the future.

We will definitely come out with a better product for less money and will be more complete than either the GruppeM or Renntech box! That you can count on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin337

That thing is AWESOME!!!! .. I cant wait until this thing is done and BLOWS that one away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aug 1, 2006 | 11:47 AM

#247

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

Just got a call from the parts guy.. Stock airbox assemblies have landed from Germany.. Going down to pick them up on Thursday and will drop them off at CF company either Thursday afternoon or Friday.

Renntech box still not here... Man these guys are SLLLLOOOOOWWWW!

Aug 1, 2006 | 11:59 AM

#248

xxaarraa

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Multiple

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrus

This is how I think we should approach it... If we happen to get the 17 people or $3,500 (whichever comes first) we will use the money and I will get us a Renntech CF airbox. I will install the airbox and do a dyno and post up the results. This will tell us for sure if the design will work and makes the hp that they claim.

If the results of the dyno are to everyone's liking then we proceed to the next step and move forward with *A* design (we have to decide what *OURS* will look like) & create the mold. Everyone who has pitched in will vote and say whether we should move forward or not.

If the results don't please everyone then we sell off the Renntech box and give back equal shares of the proceeds to each of the contributors. Worst comes to worst, everyone loses a little bit of money to determine if these air boxes are all that they are cracked up to be instead of being stuck with a $4,000 piece of carbon fiber that just looks good.

How does that sound?

hmmm.

Aug 1, 2006 | 12:06 PM

#249

vrus

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From: Richmond Hill, Ontario

2003 E55 AMG

hmmm.. what? Is something wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

hmmm.

Aug 1, 2006 | 12:27 PM

#250

dragonAMG

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From: Sin City

12' C63 P31, 06' Supercharged Range, 08' BMW 550i

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrus

hmmm.. what? Is something wrong?

yes... he has only 9 posts.... he hasn't been around the community long enough to understand and appreciate the comradery, trust and willingness to help one another out with the expectation of nothing in return.