Confirmed: E63 is faster than E55
09-06-2006, 04:54 PM
#26
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Not just this morning. I'm always that way. Nothing against you and I do belive all you say. It looks like we disagree on the "skill" needed to launch an E55 vs an E63. I completely disagree with your comment that they are easy. Assuming you have 265 street tires in the rear, MY opinion is that the E55 is a very touchy beast on launch. Enjoy the track day and we shall see.
I could be wrong. Maybe I am missing something on the launch. I dont think so...but its possible, since I do not spend a lot of time racing other cars or going to the dragstrip. There may be a faster way to launch the car with the ESP on (or off).
"Peace out", my fellow E-Brutha!
09-06-2006, 05:17 PM
#27
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I think that launching an E55 is tricky and takes practice at the dragstrip, so you get quantifiable feedback (your 60' and 330' times) on how you are doing.
It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.
One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?
It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.
One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?
09-06-2006, 05:27 PM
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I think that launching an E55 is tricky and takes practice at the dragstrip, so you get quantifiable feedback (your 60' and 330' times) on how you are doing.
It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.
One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?
It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.
One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?
My buddy has not raced my E55 at the strip.
09-06-2006, 05:30 PM
#29
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AMGs
I think that launching an E55 is tricky and takes practice at the dragstrip, so you get quantifiable feedback (your 60' and 330' times) on how you are doing.
It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.
One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?
It will be interesting to see a well driven E63 and E55 go head to head at the strip, same day. Even just comparing the car's best times on the same strip, same day, would be informative.
One last thing, has your buddy raced your E55 at the strip?
09-06-2006, 05:34 PM
#30
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09-06-2006, 05:43 PM
#32
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Yeh Chappy, I was sitting across from you down 2 when they played this video at AMG Fest and remember what Rob Allen said to everyone. In that run the E55 got a bad start and that several other runs proved that the E55 was a little faster down the quarter mile. Thats what I heard Rob say.
09-06-2006, 05:58 PM
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Look, bottom line is that no one is making any claims. An E55 went up against an E63 and for whatever reason the E63 pulled hard and won. Its simply an observation. We have no numbers to deal with so nobodys going to make an E55 vs. E63 decision based on it. He ran the cars, he had some fun, we argued. Still wish I coulda seen it, though 
09-06-2006, 06:10 PM
#34
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Not just this morning. I'm always that way. Nothing against you and I do belive all you say. It looks like we disagree on the "skill" needed to launch an E55 vs an E63. I completely disagree with your comment that they are easy. Assuming you have 265 street tires in the rear, MY opinion is that the E55 is a very touchy beast on launch. Enjoy the track day and we shall see.
And the guys that are talking about the launch mean that even with ESP on, its a tricky launch. If you merely lay into it, you engage the ESP... which perpetually fights back with the orange light while you start to move and jerk, as it seeks traction. That is a huge waste of time... and THAT is the talent part. Even when launching with ESP on, you can get entirely different results based on how you move in to the throttle... I think that's what Jangy meant.... he's not that grumpy today.
But yes, floor an E55 and its easy to launch... but not always the fastest way to launch. The E63 sounds like the higher power band really helps with traction, easing into it (if you can say that about either of these cars).
I think Drag Day will be very interesting. For example, I'm very curious about an E63 with ESP off AND my drag radials versus an E55 with ESP off and drag radials. That will be the great equalizer... traction and no ESP. If you're fine with it, I'll have the drag radials ready to go for you as well. This is a fact finding mission... we want to run the table on possible options and settings to really nail down what works, what doesn't, where the strengths are and are not. There are no losers in the E55-E63 realm.
This is fun people!!!!
Loren
Last edited by FlyByNight; 09-06-2006 at 06:16 PM.
09-06-2006, 06:17 PM
#35
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Yeh Chappy, I was sitting across from you down 2 when they played this video at AMG Fest and remember what Rob Allen said to everyone. In that run the E55 got a bad start and that several other runs proved that the E55 was a little faster down the quarter mile. Thats what I heard Rob say.
They had different trap speeds IIRC. The E55 driver was reported as being a novice driver....I suppose we'll have to 'settle' this at the track.DerekFSU....there should be some fresh E55 'meat' in Atlanta in the coming months. We're planning another meet, but the date is not yet firm (should know in a day or two).
09-06-2006, 06:23 PM
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I think Drag Day will be very interesting. For example, I'm very curious about an E63 with ESP off AND my drag radials versus an E55 with ESP off and drag radials. That will be the great equalizer... traction and no ESP. If you're fine with it, I'll have the drag radials ready to go for you as well.
hahaha... I think I should get a spirit of discovery nod for paying for your spot!
Loren
hahaha... I think I should get a spirit of discovery nod for paying for your spot!
Loren
I think all the testing sounds great. I will need to check it all out when I get there to confirm what I am going to do to the car.
09-06-2006, 06:30 PM
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I've said this before and i'll say it again. You have to know how to launch the 55! If you got 3 cars off the launch, rest assured your friend spun the wheels. If you spin tires, you're gonna lose. The 63 is easier to launch because it doesnt have that monster torque at the low end like the 55. You cant "punch it" off th elin ein the 55, you have to ease into it. Oh well, who cares I'm gonna go for a drive 
I never regained my dignity
09-06-2006, 07:01 PM
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BENZO
you are a tool and annoying
There won't be tire spin with ESP on. Great write up, but I don't see where you have any data to back up your claim. Glad it makes you feel better though. The 9/15 track day will settle this once and for all. Launching an E55 is an art in itself. Handing it to a buddy and having him floor it is not exactly fair. At the same time, I can see why you wouldn't want to let the guy drive your new E63.
I know most will not agree but give it up. You want to believe the 55 is faster but it is not. This is a real world test, the kind you want to run on the street but have not been able to. AMG would not out out a slower car, 55 is great to MOD (well again an assumption as all the negative banter is from 55 owners) hopefully that keeps you happy.
Last edited by Pacific NW Guy; 09-06-2006 at 07:11 PM.
09-06-2006, 09:54 PM
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I know most will not agree but give it up. You want to believe the 55 is faster but it is not. This is a real world test, the kind you want to run on the street but have not been able to. AMG would not out out a slower car, 55 is great to MOD (well again an assumption as all the negative banter is from 55 owners) hopefully that keeps you happy.
LOL, I'm a tool? Stay posted and enjoy the results. Please don't speak for me, since I've done my "real world" comparisons. Just because I don't jump up and down on here with every kill doesn't mean a thing. Maybe people should be a little more open about posting when they get spanked by the Jangydoolittle instead??
If you really thhink I need to rationalize my '06 E55, then you simply don't know me. If the E63 was supposed to be faster, then I would have held on to the '05 E55 for a few more months and gotten one. That simple. MBUSA marketing can claim any HP or 0-60 times they want, but why don't you take the time to talk to ANYONE at AMG and see? If that isn't enough for you, ask Tommy Kendall who has put plenty of miles on both.
Tool, psht. Why you gotta make it personal? You are lucky the mods are looking to ban me or I'd be inclined to defend myself.
09-06-2006, 11:14 PM
#43
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Lucky Friend
I was the lucky guy to drive my buddy’s E55 this morning. That was a blast! I’m still smiling from that thrill ride. I had so much fun that I was stupid enough to tell my wife. Look’s like I’ll be sleeping here in the office tonight.
Anyways…
First, I agree with the guy who said we should swap cars and make sure it’s not the driver. I’m free tomorrow at 4am if you would like to do this E63AMG?
The sad part was I had the best view, from behind. I even cheated once. We used the 1,2,3,go count. We both discussed prior to racing that the GO was when you put your foot into it. We even realized that the cell phone had a slight delay, so we opted for hand signals. This seemed to be fair. All the starts seemed to have both cars jumping at the same time. The only thing was the E63 launched MUCH faster than the E55. From 2-3 car lengths at say 0-40 MPH. This was a consistent event. The tires never spun out on either car that I could tell. The ESP was left on to prevent this. Say from 40-80 MPH the E55 may have closed the gap by say Ľ to ˝ car length. Then from 80-100 MPH the E63 pulled away again. I think this was about the time I felt the E55 shifting gears. Again realize that I’m trying to be as fair as possible to help you guys out. This IS what happened this morning as best I can remember. I honestly feel that since both tires were the same, on the same street, with more HP that both cars needed to burn out. It’s has to be which ESP is better on that initial start (unless one car is heaver than the other?). I got to give it to the E63. Every race was consistent with my above description with “these given circumstances.”
Now what about that driver swap for tomorrow A.M.?
P.S. I have raced a high speed NHRA dragster (had to take a class) at the Pomona Ľ mile drag strip in the late 90’s. It wasn’t a big deal, but they did teach you how to launch dragster. If that gives me any credibility or not?
Anyways…
First, I agree with the guy who said we should swap cars and make sure it’s not the driver. I’m free tomorrow at 4am if you would like to do this E63AMG?
The sad part was I had the best view, from behind. I even cheated once. We used the 1,2,3,go count. We both discussed prior to racing that the GO was when you put your foot into it. We even realized that the cell phone had a slight delay, so we opted for hand signals. This seemed to be fair. All the starts seemed to have both cars jumping at the same time. The only thing was the E63 launched MUCH faster than the E55. From 2-3 car lengths at say 0-40 MPH. This was a consistent event. The tires never spun out on either car that I could tell. The ESP was left on to prevent this. Say from 40-80 MPH the E55 may have closed the gap by say Ľ to ˝ car length. Then from 80-100 MPH the E63 pulled away again. I think this was about the time I felt the E55 shifting gears. Again realize that I’m trying to be as fair as possible to help you guys out. This IS what happened this morning as best I can remember. I honestly feel that since both tires were the same, on the same street, with more HP that both cars needed to burn out. It’s has to be which ESP is better on that initial start (unless one car is heaver than the other?). I got to give it to the E63. Every race was consistent with my above description with “these given circumstances.”
Now what about that driver swap for tomorrow A.M.?
P.S. I have raced a high speed NHRA dragster (had to take a class) at the Pomona Ľ mile drag strip in the late 90’s. It wasn’t a big deal, but they did teach you how to launch dragster. If that gives me any credibility or not?
09-06-2006, 11:48 PM
#44
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BENZO
Say WORD son!
I was the lucky guy to drive my buddy’s E55 this morning. That was a blast! I’m still smiling from that thrill ride. I had so much fun that I was stupid enough to tell my wife. Look’s like I’ll be sleeping here in the office tonight.
Anyways…
First, I agree with the guy who said we should swap cars and make sure it’s not the driver. I’m free tomorrow at 4am if you would like to do this E63AMG?
The sad part was I had the best view, from behind. I even cheated once. We used the 1,2,3,go count. We both discussed prior to racing that the GO was when you put your foot into it. We even realized that the cell phone had a slight delay, so we opted for hand signals. This seemed to be fair. All the starts seemed to have both cars jumping at the same time. The only thing was the E63 launched MUCH faster than the E55. From 2-3 car lengths at say 0-40 MPH. This was a consistent event. The tires never spun out on either car that I could tell. The ESP was left on to prevent this. Say from 40-80 MPH the E55 may have closed the gap by say Ľ to ˝ car length. Then from 80-100 MPH the E63 pulled away again. I think this was about the time I felt the E55 shifting gears. Again realize that I’m trying to be as fair as possible to help you guys out. This IS what happened this morning as best I can remember. I honestly feel that since both tires were the same, on the same street, with more HP that both cars needed to burn out. It’s has to be which ESP is better on that initial start (unless one car is heaver than the other?). I got to give it to the E63. Every race was consistent with my above description with “these given circumstances.”
Now what about that driver swap for tomorrow A.M.?
P.S. I have raced a high speed NHRA dragster (had to take a class) at the Pomona Ľ mile drag strip in the late 90’s. It wasn’t a big deal, but they did teach you how to launch dragster. If that gives me any credibility or not?
Anyways…
First, I agree with the guy who said we should swap cars and make sure it’s not the driver. I’m free tomorrow at 4am if you would like to do this E63AMG?
The sad part was I had the best view, from behind. I even cheated once. We used the 1,2,3,go count. We both discussed prior to racing that the GO was when you put your foot into it. We even realized that the cell phone had a slight delay, so we opted for hand signals. This seemed to be fair. All the starts seemed to have both cars jumping at the same time. The only thing was the E63 launched MUCH faster than the E55. From 2-3 car lengths at say 0-40 MPH. This was a consistent event. The tires never spun out on either car that I could tell. The ESP was left on to prevent this. Say from 40-80 MPH the E55 may have closed the gap by say Ľ to ˝ car length. Then from 80-100 MPH the E63 pulled away again. I think this was about the time I felt the E55 shifting gears. Again realize that I’m trying to be as fair as possible to help you guys out. This IS what happened this morning as best I can remember. I honestly feel that since both tires were the same, on the same street, with more HP that both cars needed to burn out. It’s has to be which ESP is better on that initial start (unless one car is heaver than the other?). I got to give it to the E63. Every race was consistent with my above description with “these given circumstances.”
Now what about that driver swap for tomorrow A.M.?
P.S. I have raced a high speed NHRA dragster (had to take a class) at the Pomona Ľ mile drag strip in the late 90’s. It wasn’t a big deal, but they did teach you how to launch dragster. If that gives me any credibility or not?
09-07-2006, 01:01 AM
#46
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CLS63 Silver/charcoal, RRS S/C stornoway grey/ebony
Oh my god! you guys are sooo biased, I am 100% sure if it was the opposite " E55 infront of E63" everyone would have agreed lol since most are E55 owners!!
09-07-2006, 02:43 AM
#47
Super Member
Haven't driven a 63 yet and am trying to be unbiased in terms of the better performer stock.
What I don't understand is how a 63 can be quicker off the line than a 55, if neither car spins the wheels ? Weight is basically the same and the 55 has a good bit more power/torque at lower RPMs. The 63 has the extra horsepower but only at the top of the RPM range. The gear ratios are probably different but not enough to give the 63 a bit head start. I sure would think a 55 starting off a few car lengths behind must be related to traction loss.
One of the reasons I bring this up is that I'm having a real hard time getting a good launch in my 55 (with Renntech mods) even with the traction control on -- see my other post. From a stop I either have to ease the throttle open or leave some of my Pirelli rubber on the road and door panels, either way I loose time and usually start off drags behind. Of course once I get grip and let her rip, I catch up fast ! And the acceleration I really care about, from 30-70mph, is just plain nuts.
What I don't understand is how a 63 can be quicker off the line than a 55, if neither car spins the wheels ? Weight is basically the same and the 55 has a good bit more power/torque at lower RPMs. The 63 has the extra horsepower but only at the top of the RPM range. The gear ratios are probably different but not enough to give the 63 a bit head start. I sure would think a 55 starting off a few car lengths behind must be related to traction loss.
One of the reasons I bring this up is that I'm having a real hard time getting a good launch in my 55 (with Renntech mods) even with the traction control on -- see my other post. From a stop I either have to ease the throttle open or leave some of my Pirelli rubber on the road and door panels, either way I loose time and usually start off drags behind. Of course once I get grip and let her rip, I catch up fast ! And the acceleration I really care about, from 30-70mph, is just plain nuts.
09-07-2006, 03:58 AM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
On a strip it may be different I think as the advantage will go to the E55 as it will be the one gaining most advantage in terms of grip - so at the strip I think the results will be much closer.
The other thing about the new 7 speed box being close ratio is just not true - the gearing spacing looks attrocious to me its basically a 5 speed with 2 overdrive ratios ... I just dont get what they were thinking here ... But then again what do I know.
Congrats to the E63 though - nice road kill!
E63 1 ( not sure how many times you ran them ?)
E55 0
Last edited by stevebez; 09-07-2006 at 04:01 AM.
09-07-2006, 07:52 PM
#49
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With all this talk going on and seeing how low of a trap derek ran I have a hard time believing your E55 was healthy. And then the SLK kills a E63. So something isnt adding up
Was the Ic pump working ok?
Recalls?
Was the Ic pump working ok?
Recalls?
07-04-2007, 01:57 AM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
I finally got around to doing some direct testing of my stock E55 and stock E63. A buddy and I headed out in the early morning to see how these cars stacked up against each other. We did about 5 “tests” from a dead stop to about 100 miles an hour or so. This was not scientifically done. It’s a sample of 1 car each. We did not measure a quarter mile, have a timer, or any of that. Most tests were done on a straight stretch of road with a very slight downhill, then very slight uphill. I suspect this course would favor the car with less grip and more torque (the E55). The payloads of the cars were similar (fuel + driver).
In all cases, the E63 won. The most noticeable difference was at the start. Sometimes, the E63 would immediately pick up 3 car lengths over the E55. In all cases, the ESP was left on and tire spin was negligible on both cars. It’s almost as though the E63 has a better launch system than the E55. It’s probably just the better power delivery between the engine and transmission and the road. This makes me think about the video of the race in the United Arab Emirates between and E55 and E63. I thought the guy in the E55 was sleeping at the start when the E63 jumped ahead. Now, I am not sure. Maybe someone can post a link to that video. It’s the one where the E63 has to slow down for a truck.
As the cars accelerated after the starts, the gap between the E63 and E55 stayed pretty even, with the E63 possibly picking up a little more distance, but not much. Since the power figures are so similar, this is not surprising.
I did place a video camera down by the side of the road and caught the end of one test. If I can figure out how to upload it, I will. It shows the E63 about 4 car lengths ahead as it goes by the camera. Again, take this with a grain of salt. It’s a glimpse of the truth, not a precise measurement of relative speed like we will soon be getting at the track.
While it may not be intuitive that a car with less torque could be faster, the sum total of the new engine with its hp and torque combined with the new 7 speed tranny add up to a slightly faster package. I have the pleasure of personally confirming it. It’s really not surprising that AMG is delivering a car with slightly more performance than the previous car. While the stock E55 is an amazingly fast car that is hard to top, the E63 has succeeded.
For those of you who want to modify your engines, the E63 might not be for you. Keep your E55 and go for it. I am sure those cars are faster than the stock E63 in the quarter mile. For those who don’t want to modify their engines, or who want a newer version of the car, you will be very pleased with the speed of stock E63.
I am going to ask my buddy to post his comments on our “tests”, since he drove my E55 and usually had a better view of the E63, than vice versa.
In all cases, the E63 won. The most noticeable difference was at the start. Sometimes, the E63 would immediately pick up 3 car lengths over the E55. In all cases, the ESP was left on and tire spin was negligible on both cars. It’s almost as though the E63 has a better launch system than the E55. It’s probably just the better power delivery between the engine and transmission and the road. This makes me think about the video of the race in the United Arab Emirates between and E55 and E63. I thought the guy in the E55 was sleeping at the start when the E63 jumped ahead. Now, I am not sure. Maybe someone can post a link to that video. It’s the one where the E63 has to slow down for a truck.
As the cars accelerated after the starts, the gap between the E63 and E55 stayed pretty even, with the E63 possibly picking up a little more distance, but not much. Since the power figures are so similar, this is not surprising.
I did place a video camera down by the side of the road and caught the end of one test. If I can figure out how to upload it, I will. It shows the E63 about 4 car lengths ahead as it goes by the camera. Again, take this with a grain of salt. It’s a glimpse of the truth, not a precise measurement of relative speed like we will soon be getting at the track.
While it may not be intuitive that a car with less torque could be faster, the sum total of the new engine with its hp and torque combined with the new 7 speed tranny add up to a slightly faster package. I have the pleasure of personally confirming it. It’s really not surprising that AMG is delivering a car with slightly more performance than the previous car. While the stock E55 is an amazingly fast car that is hard to top, the E63 has succeeded.
For those of you who want to modify your engines, the E63 might not be for you. Keep your E55 and go for it. I am sure those cars are faster than the stock E63 in the quarter mile. For those who don’t want to modify their engines, or who want a newer version of the car, you will be very pleased with the speed of stock E63.
I am going to ask my buddy to post his comments on our “tests”, since he drove my E55 and usually had a better view of the E63, than vice versa.
