Let’s get all these issues straightened out with AMG.
09-14-2006, 08:00 PM
#1
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Let’s get all these issues straightened out with AMG.
There's going to be another web discussion with Rob Allen on 9-20 on the AMG owners forum. Someone should get some questions drafted up and post them now so they have time to get some answers:
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...read.php?t=475
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...read.php?t=475
09-20-2006, 08:02 AM
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SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
There's going to be another web discussion with Rob Allen on 9-20 on the AMG owners forum. Someone should get some questions drafted up and post them now so they have time to get some answers:
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...read.php?t=475
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...read.php?t=475
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...rums/index.php
09-20-2006, 11:27 AM
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since this still doesn't accommodate those of us in the western u.s. and most of us won't be home from our work day yet, will someone please bring up the e55 secondary air pump recall this time!!!!!
09-20-2006, 12:17 PM
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C63
09-20-2006, 01:05 PM
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Trending Topics
09-20-2006, 03:05 PM
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09-20-2006, 06:57 PM
#11
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how about something like this:
has amg come up with a reason as to why many e55's have lost 60-75hp directly after the secondary air pump recall and ecu flash and what do they intend to do to restore these cars to spec?
that's the polite way to put it. if i was in a bad mood, i'd tell him that we KNOW FOR A FACT based on exclusive conversations with mb that these cars have been limited and want to know what they intend to do to remove the problem.
has amg come up with a reason as to why many e55's have lost 60-75hp directly after the secondary air pump recall and ecu flash and what do they intend to do to restore these cars to spec?
that's the polite way to put it. if i was in a bad mood, i'd tell him that we KNOW FOR A FACT based on exclusive conversations with mb that these cars have been limited and want to know what they intend to do to remove the problem.
09-20-2006, 07:58 PM
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Ok, it starts in 3 minutes. I may be a little late but how about we make the first post Robert's (rake55) email to Wolf Zimmermann as that it pretty nicely sums up the first wave of our concerns. Sound good? OK with you Rob?
09-20-2006, 08:03 PM
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06 E55 SOLD, 89 300 SE 375,000 miles
how about something like this:
has amg come up with a reason as to why many e55's have lost 60-75hp directly after the secondary air pump recall and ecu flash and what do they intend to do to restore these cars to spec?
that's the polite way to put it. if i was in a bad mood, i'd tell him that we KNOW FOR A FACT based on exclusive conversations with mb that these cars have been limited and want to know what they intend to do to remove the problem.
has amg come up with a reason as to why many e55's have lost 60-75hp directly after the secondary air pump recall and ecu flash and what do they intend to do to restore these cars to spec?
that's the polite way to put it. if i was in a bad mood, i'd tell him that we KNOW FOR A FACT based on exclusive conversations with mb that these cars have been limited and want to know what they intend to do to remove the problem.
09-20-2006, 08:05 PM
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07 SL550; C32 (sold)
first 2 sentences was posted. awaiting answer.
09-20-2006, 08:17 PM
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how about something like this:
has amg come up with a reason as to why many e55's have lost 60-75hp directly after the secondary air pump recall and ecu flash and what do they intend to do to restore these cars to spec?
that's the polite way to put it. if i was in a bad mood, i'd tell him that we KNOW FOR A FACT based on exclusive conversations with mb that these cars have been limited and want to know what they intend to do to remove the problem.
has amg come up with a reason as to why many e55's have lost 60-75hp directly after the secondary air pump recall and ecu flash and what do they intend to do to restore these cars to spec?
that's the polite way to put it. if i was in a bad mood, i'd tell him that we KNOW FOR A FACT based on exclusive conversations with mb that these cars have been limited and want to know what they intend to do to remove the problem.
09-20-2006, 08:26 PM
#16
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My CLS55 (built 12/05) came with the updated ECU software. Stock dyno was basically 380rwhp -- funny how that is the same as the 63 dynos I've seen. Certainly it is reason enough to be suspicious the 55K cars were electronically castrated before the 63s started to arrive, since the pre-reflash 55K cars dyno quite a bit higher...
09-20-2006, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MBUSA_Rob_Allan
I am unaware of any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower. ECU flashing is a pretty standard service procedure and you should contact your dealer if you experience an issue with your own car.
Not good for us 55 guys and....
Originally Posted by MBUSA_Rob_Allan
Thanks for pointing this out. We know that early E63 AMG owners are testing power on dynamometers and we have some information to share on this.
AMG's engine production advised us this week that the initial 6.3 AMG V-8s produced and bench tested are delivering the 507 horsepower (U.S.) at the flywheel as specified.
We are trying to replicate the conditions under which U.S. owners are achieving their results. There are several important factors including fuel type and quality / octane, temperature - both ambient and engine operating, relative humidity and the like. AMG will be testing under a variety of conditions using complete vehicles.
More to come on this topic.
AMG's engine production advised us this week that the initial 6.3 AMG V-8s produced and bench tested are delivering the 507 horsepower (U.S.) at the flywheel as specified.
We are trying to replicate the conditions under which U.S. owners are achieving their results. There are several important factors including fuel type and quality / octane, temperature - both ambient and engine operating, relative humidity and the like. AMG will be testing under a variety of conditions using complete vehicles.
More to come on this topic.
Not looking too well for 63 owners either...He did say more to come though.They either read the thread here or the calls have been coming in already.
09-20-2006, 09:45 PM
#19
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thanks guys, you did a great job hammering him on the reduced hp...unfortunately, he did a better job at playing dumb.
pretty much just what i expected.
pretty much just what i expected.
09-20-2006, 11:10 PM
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Rob Allen is no rookie.
You guys bashed me when I tried to give you feedback, but all you want to hear is confirmation of a conspiracy, which will never happen.
If you want MB to address whatever issues you think or are really having, then be methodical and they will respond in kind. This is exactly like playing poker with a bunch of people that show you their cards. Even I could sit back and preempt your every move.
Anyhow, go ahead and flame some more. Maybe it will help your position.
Note one thing on the E55 question (since I could give a rat's ans about the E63), he didn't play dumb. He said he was not aware of "any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower". Two key words. standard (i.e. unmodified) and horsepower (not curve or TQ). Now, take the majority of problem kids that DO have mods out of the equation and what do you end up with? A small population that still claims to be stock and affected. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they have not built much of a case. Just crying isn't going to help. Neither is diving under the tuner bus.
Summary:
Make a hypothesis
Test that hypothesis
you end up with a theory that you can validate.
How, you ask? Simple do a comparison dyno between your stock "affected" car and a stock 'unaffected" car. Notice how such a study would negate all of the arguments over relative conditions.
You guys bashed me when I tried to give you feedback, but all you want to hear is confirmation of a conspiracy, which will never happen.
If you want MB to address whatever issues you think or are really having, then be methodical and they will respond in kind. This is exactly like playing poker with a bunch of people that show you their cards. Even I could sit back and preempt your every move.
Anyhow, go ahead and flame some more. Maybe it will help your position.
Note one thing on the E55 question (since I could give a rat's ans about the E63), he didn't play dumb. He said he was not aware of "any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower". Two key words. standard (i.e. unmodified) and horsepower (not curve or TQ). Now, take the majority of problem kids that DO have mods out of the equation and what do you end up with? A small population that still claims to be stock and affected. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they have not built much of a case. Just crying isn't going to help. Neither is diving under the tuner bus.
Summary:
Make a hypothesis
Test that hypothesis
you end up with a theory that you can validate.
How, you ask? Simple do a comparison dyno between your stock "affected" car and a stock 'unaffected" car. Notice how such a study would negate all of the arguments over relative conditions.
09-20-2006, 11:22 PM
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I do not ever see them checking into or admitting there is a load limiter placed into the reflash.Just wont happen no matter how much evidence we showed.
The 63's HP debate will get a response from AMG,might not be an answer that will satisfy the owners but it will somehow explain why the car gets low rwhp.I see nothing but complaints coming from the owners,and I dont blame them.
The 63's HP debate will get a response from AMG,might not be an answer that will satisfy the owners but it will somehow explain why the car gets low rwhp.I see nothing but complaints coming from the owners,and I dont blame them.
09-20-2006, 11:45 PM
#23
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Rob Allen is no rookie.
You guys bashed me when I tried to give you feedback, but all you want to hear is confirmation of a conspiracy, which will never happen.
If you want MB to address whatever issues you think or are really having, then be methodical and they will respond in kind. This is exactly like playing poker with a bunch of people that show you their cards. Even I could sit back and preempt your every move.
Anyhow, go ahead and flame some more. Maybe it will help your position.
Note one thing on the E55 question (since I could give a rat's ans about the E63), he didn't play dumb. He said he was not aware of "any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower". Two key words. standard (i.e. unmodified) and horsepower (not curve or TQ). Now, take the majority of problem kids that DO have mods out of the equation and what do you end up with? A small population that still claims to be stock and affected. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they have not built much of a case. Just crying isn't going to help. Neither is diving under the tuner bus.
Summary:
Make a hypothesis
Test that hypothesis
you end up with a theory that you can validate.
How, you ask? Simple do a comparison dyno between your stock "affected" car and a stock 'unaffected" car. Notice how such a study would negate all of the arguments over relative conditions.
You guys bashed me when I tried to give you feedback, but all you want to hear is confirmation of a conspiracy, which will never happen.
If you want MB to address whatever issues you think or are really having, then be methodical and they will respond in kind. This is exactly like playing poker with a bunch of people that show you their cards. Even I could sit back and preempt your every move.
Anyhow, go ahead and flame some more. Maybe it will help your position.
Note one thing on the E55 question (since I could give a rat's ans about the E63), he didn't play dumb. He said he was not aware of "any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower". Two key words. standard (i.e. unmodified) and horsepower (not curve or TQ). Now, take the majority of problem kids that DO have mods out of the equation and what do you end up with? A small population that still claims to be stock and affected. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they have not built much of a case. Just crying isn't going to help. Neither is diving under the tuner bus.
Summary:
Make a hypothesis
Test that hypothesis
you end up with a theory that you can validate.
How, you ask? Simple do a comparison dyno between your stock "affected" car and a stock 'unaffected" car. Notice how such a study would negate all of the arguments over relative conditions.
i'm sure rob is a great guy but he is either uninformed or has a gag order. the problem has been substantiated in no uncertain terms.
for the rest of your argument, you have no idea what you're talking about or what kind of case we have. what gets posted here is only the tip of the iceberg. to think we don't have dyno proof of the loss of hp AND tq and to think that it hasn't been brought to the attention of mb goes to show that you have no idea. your "simple" solution has been done, it's what helped me get most of my hp and tq back with replacement parts...but it didn't get us to the root of our problem.
our problem is that mb has altered our cars, is purposefully ignoring us, and hoping we will go away. their problem is that we have this forum.
Last edited by chiromikey; 09-20-2006 at 11:54 PM.
09-21-2006, 12:05 AM
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Basesless!
Rob Allen is no rookie.
You guys bashed me when I tried to give you feedback, but all you want to hear is confirmation of a conspiracy, which will never happen.
If you want MB to address whatever issues you think or are really having, then be methodical and they will respond in kind. This is exactly like playing poker with a bunch of people that show you their cards. Even I could sit back and preempt your every move.
Anyhow, go ahead and flame some more. Maybe it will help your position.
Note one thing on the E55 question (since I could give a rat's ans about the E63), he didn't play dumb. He said he was not aware of "any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower". Two key words. standard (i.e. unmodified) and horsepower (not curve or TQ). Now, take the majority of problem kids that DO have mods out of the equation and what do you end up with? A small population that still claims to be stock and affected. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they have not built much of a case. Just crying isn't going to help. Neither is diving under the tuner bus.
Summary:
Make a hypothesis
Test that hypothesis
you end up with a theory that you can validate.
How, you ask? Simple do a comparison dyno between your stock "affected" car and a stock 'unaffected" car. Notice how such a study would negate all of the arguments over relative conditions.
You guys bashed me when I tried to give you feedback, but all you want to hear is confirmation of a conspiracy, which will never happen.
If you want MB to address whatever issues you think or are really having, then be methodical and they will respond in kind. This is exactly like playing poker with a bunch of people that show you their cards. Even I could sit back and preempt your every move.
Anyhow, go ahead and flame some more. Maybe it will help your position.
Note one thing on the E55 question (since I could give a rat's ans about the E63), he didn't play dumb. He said he was not aware of "any modifications that directly impacts the E55 AMG's standard horsepower". Two key words. standard (i.e. unmodified) and horsepower (not curve or TQ). Now, take the majority of problem kids that DO have mods out of the equation and what do you end up with? A small population that still claims to be stock and affected. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they have not built much of a case. Just crying isn't going to help. Neither is diving under the tuner bus.
Summary:
Make a hypothesis
Test that hypothesis
you end up with a theory that you can validate.
How, you ask? Simple do a comparison dyno between your stock "affected" car and a stock 'unaffected" car. Notice how such a study would negate all of the arguments over relative conditions.
09-21-2006, 12:19 AM
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2015 S212
i respect you jangy but please don't get me started again and PLEASE don't sugarcoat the early position you took in this matter. we never "bashed you because of your feedback", we took offense because you emphatically stated the problem was "in our imagination".
i'm sure rob is a great guy but he is either uninformed or has a gag order. the problem has been substantiated in no uncertain terms.
for the rest of your argument, you have no idea what you're talking about or what kind of case we have. what gets posted here is only the tip of the iceberg. to think we don't have dyno proof of the loss of hp AND tq and to think that it hasn't been brought to the attention of mb goes to show that you have no idea. your "simple" solution has been done, it's what helped me get most of my hp and tq back with replacement parts...but it didn't get us to the root of our problem.
our problem is that mb has altered our cars, is purposefully ignoring us, and hoping we will go away. their problem is that we have this forum.
i'm sure rob is a great guy but he is either uninformed or has a gag order. the problem has been substantiated in no uncertain terms.
for the rest of your argument, you have no idea what you're talking about or what kind of case we have. what gets posted here is only the tip of the iceberg. to think we don't have dyno proof of the loss of hp AND tq and to think that it hasn't been brought to the attention of mb goes to show that you have no idea. your "simple" solution has been done, it's what helped me get most of my hp and tq back with replacement parts...but it didn't get us to the root of our problem.
our problem is that mb has altered our cars, is purposefully ignoring us, and hoping we will go away. their problem is that we have this forum.
