medici78

I give HUGE props to Stage6 for the accomplishment on the Ford GT TT. However, I'm sure the $30k included all development costs, trial and error, etc. What makes the build so impressive, in my eyes, is the simplicity of the upgrade.

What Joe claims he paid vs cost of parts and labor still leaves much to speculation. There is no way they used more than $10k (retail) worth of piping, turbos and misc parts to complete the build. They used the stock intercooler, stock fuel system (injectors excepted, I believe), stock exhaust,
even stock manifolds!! From the looks of it, the turbos and associated piping are in place of the OEM exhaust system. Now that the original prototype is done, there is a guide to go by. The first build is always going to take much longer than subsequent ones. If this one took them 200 hours, the next one will only take 50, probably much less since trial and error is no longer a factor.
Figure he paid $90/hr for the labor, and it makes sense that it would cost $30k. However, he ate all the development costs considering it was a one-off build. If one was to mass market the system, $15k would leave a very good margin.
This is why I think a similar system at $15k for the E55 is more than feasible and makes more sense. Your average E55 ENTHUSIAST (lets face it, the average owner will leave well enough alone, lol) won't spend $30k to TT their ride. However, if you promise reliable 600+rwhp performance for $15k it begins to look VERY attractive.

BoBcanada

+1

E55 + reliable 600 rwhp is a keeper sign me up.

G55K

Can you take the pistons from the kompressor 55 engine and drop them into the NA 55 engine? I believe that the blocks, etc., are the same and this would be an easy way to lower the compression of the NA engine.

Mad TKD

I dont think the blocks are that close. You would need more than that probably. Most FI blocks have more cooling and oiling passages than its similar NA engine.

BTW Vrus I also have locally someone that can make a Sheet metal Intake!!!!

vrus

Ok guys... Time for me to spill some more info.. Here is the lo-down...

I have been collaborating with 2 people about this project on and off for the past few weeks.. I didnt want to mention names because nothing was solidified..

DerekFSU, MarkoCL55 and myself are working together to bring a TT kit out for the E55, SL55, and CL55 cars. Using Marko's experience in building one of the fastest Supra in the country and also from building & fabricating TT kits for other cars, he is helping me to put together the ultimate TT kit for the E55.

DerekFSU's car will be the prototype & development car. We have a fulltime fabricator & mechanic that was hired and he will be working on Derek's car to build the system. We have decided to built the kit as a pair of turbos that will bolt onto the car and KEEP the S/C. Yes.. That's right... 2 x Turbos + Compressor = TONNES OF FUN & GIGGLES!!!

Once we are done, Derek will be using his skills as a driver to see what we can get out of this kit and will be doing all the 1/4mile testing for us. The goal is to hit 10sec 1/4 with the Stage 1 kit.

From the testing we have done, we know the stock fuel system and engine can support 750hp.. We dont have CONCRETE facts on the longevity aspects but we know it will support that HP level.

For Stage 1 I am aiming for 650rwhp and will be priced UNDER $10K.. I am aiming for $7999 street price but I will know more as we get into the development of it.

For Stage 2 I am aiming for 800rwhp. It will include revised heads, different turbos or turbo profiles, and an upgraded intercooler system. Pricing to be determined..

The benefits of this kit will be:

- The car can be returned to stock in a few hours if needed. Once the Turbo kit is removed the car will function as it did from the factory. That was the main reason we decided to keep the S/C and just add Turbos onto the existing car.

- Plug & play install so to speak. Everything including the custom ECU tune will be provided. It will be made to go onto a completely bone stock car or one that already has Pullies, Headers, etc..

We are hoping that in the next 2 months the prototype kit will be complete and we will have a running car @ the Stage 1 power levels.

I am doing the head work R&D in parallel so that we will have those ready when its time to go for Stage 2.

medici78

650rwhp for $7999??? Return to stock when finished?? COUNT ME IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BoBcanada

now im not sure if i should place my ml63 order... Thats gonna be one happy new year for some folks!!!!!

Victor is the Santa this year !!!

Vadim @ FD

Stock port is at 140 cfm at 0.450'', simple cleanup and it is at 180 cfm. With some more extensive work 200s are possible.

Ahh, you remembered!!!

IMHO a single turbo might be better, due to space constraints and restricted heads.

BoBcanada

can anyone tell me whats the advantage of keeping the supercharger?

Mad TKD

vrus what is the need or want to keep the SC? Is it because of not wanting to develope a Intake?

If I were to do this I would want a TT version.

check your pm vrus

G55K

Guys,

You might want to re-think the idea of twincharging (supercharger + turbos). In theory it sounds like a great idea becasue you get the low end torque of a supercharger and the upper end power of a turbo. I've attached some pictures of my Evolution 8. It's a twincharged design and took ever 18 months to build and tune properly. I live in Colorado so I needed the supercharger to help spool this huge turbo. At my altitude this would have been a lag monster.

The system worked well but was high maintainence and big bucks. It's not near as simple as you think. The supercharger has to be bypassed at some point in order for designed power numbers to be reached. Also, be prepared for major heat! The intercooler system in itself was a huge feat of engineering. The supercharger that I used should look familar as it was made by Kleemann's OEM partner. Kleemann actual helped designed some of the components and ideas used for this car but the majority of the work was done by Brandon G.'s buddy Roberto Arano from www.union7.net. Roberto is scary smart when it comes to radical tuning ideas.

In addition, the E55 is already traction limited and has enough displacement to spool large turbos and put down decent low end power without the kompressor. Remove the supercharger and you'll reduce weight, heat, complexity, and you'll hook up better at launch. I'd be willing to bet pinks (j/k) that a well engineered twin turbo E55 would smoke a twincharged (supercharger and twin turbos) E55 at the drag strip and on the street.

Trust me, the engineering on this project to make it work properly is going to be huge. My advice is to bail on the supercharger or call Roberto and be prepared to spend big bucks and lot sof time. Please feel free to ask any questions on my twin charge design and I'll try to answer them.

Good luck!



http://72.41.83.159/images/st-anima-opt.gif

dsc

Now that finally sounds awesome in the world of more E55 power. I'm in.

What about us guys infected with the MB ECU problem. Can you tune around that?

Mad TKD

G55k only 1 of your links is working!!

I also agree with what your saying G55k. I know Marko has had a great Supra but this is no supra

Plenty of displacement to spool turbos. Can you say twin 61mm. 1 of my sources says 800rwhp(on race fuel and higher boost) is possible depending on alot of things of course. The A/R would be small so lag would be small too. Then if thats to much then twin 57mm.

I dont really think the car crazy guys cares that you can change it back so quickly. If you are going this route then the best way is just to TT it.

G55K

Sorry about that. I deleted the bad links and I'll try to repost them.

blackbenzz

Why couldnt you guys tell me this last week BEFORE I bought my new car. I will stay tuned and if things work out, I'll pick up a E55 and sned you a check vrus!

G55K

Make sure that your check is signed but left blank. Trust me, bolting two turbos on a supercharged car is not nearly as simple as it sounds. It can be done, and it's been done before, but it doesn't make any sense in this application. If done correctly it's big bucks and you still won't have the performance of a twin turbo'd car without the supercharger.

Grumpy666

Your goal to build an E55 Transformer is admirable, but I really have to question the wisdom of this decision. I'd have to think about this in more depth, but off the top of my head, I see two issues:

1) You're severely limited in the amount of boost the turbos can be allowed to generate. The turbos won't be feeding a fan like in other blower systems, they'll be feeding an air compressor - one that's already compressing the air to almost twice atmospheric pressure. Feeding that compressor hot, pressurized air will probably overtax an IC that is barely adequate in normal operating conditions.

2) The primary advantage of a turbo is that it consumes considerably less HP than that required to drive a blower that is an air compressor. Feeding that blower pressurized air will actually increase its pumping losses (compressing compressed air), causing it to use even more HP, which will probably offset most of the gains from adding the turbos.

Then there's the fact that the twin screw is a positive displacement blower. Assuming that the issues stated above don't exist, it could potentially become a restriction as you increase turbo flow for more power - w/o spinning it faster, it may limit you. Of course, feeding it pressurized air will help offset this, but I'm not sure if it's a one-for-one trade-off.

Not trying to disuade you, just calling out potential problems I see.

medici78

I am still not 100% sold on the idea of keeping the S/C. However, the S/C is not the typical S/C setup. It can be switched off and run N/A. Ask the guys with coolant pump problems

G55K

Everything that you stated above is true. When we'd disengage the supercharger from my Evo we'd gain at least 60awhp. With the displacement of the E55 there is no need for a supercharger as it actually puts you at a disadvantage.

G55K

Actually this is a fairly typical S/C system as most of them can be bypassed or disengaged.

The Evo had a bypass valve that was designed to disengage the supercharger as the turbo's made a certain amount of boost. We were making almost 45 psi of boost and, if memory serves me, the supercharger was bypassed at about 20 psi. The bypass design is very tricky.

medici78

Well, I guess I retract my statement. I was under the impression the supercharger could be completely bypassed on these cars.

G55K

You're correct, it can be bypassed.

MarkoCL65

There are major differencs in our proposed kit and your car. Your car uses a supercharger to feed a turbocharger in order to reduce lag, ours, feeds a supercharger with two turbochargers to increase total power output. You may have experienced an increase in IAT's at high boost because at that point it may be likely that the supercharger became a restiction subsequently increasing temperature, not to mention that your compressors have to spin at a higher RPM to make the same boost due to altitude. We should not have that problem for a few reasons. First is that we are already making approximately 400 WHP and our twin screw blower gives our setup the characteristics of a larger displacement NA motor. Our powerband is very much like a 7.0L-7.5L naturally aspirated motor.
We are going to be using two turbos with a rating of about 800 HP each. Why? Twin 63's can produce about 125-150 HP each with less than 5 PSI. Our goal is to keep the boost down and CFM up. We should see a substantial incease in power without seeing an insurmountable amount of heat. This is due to the simple fact that the turbos will barely be working and shouldn't generate any more heat than the blower makes already with a 14 psi pulley. Your 2.0L engine requires more than double the boost that a 5.4L would require to make the same horsepower with the same turbocharger. We need even less boost as we are feeding an engine with 7.0L-7.5L airfow characteristics. Heat should not be an issue. Even if it is, we're developing the SLR style intercooler upgrade anyway. I don't think we'll need it to reach 650 WHP safely, but it wouldn't hurt.

Mad TKD

Well I guess time will tell in this development. I personally dont want a SC + TT design.

I also think that taking out the SC will give more space for stuff(IC, bigger throttle bodies etc....)

Good luck

MarkoCL65

I'll reply in order using your numbering:
1. The turbos will blow colder than you may think. Remember, there are two of them each being used to less than 1/5th of their potential
2.There will be some resistance exerted by the blower. Given our target boost pressure of 4-5 psi, this will be negligable.

There is a point no doubt at which the blower would choke up the turbos, there has to be given the configuration and the mismatched CFM potential of the components. According to some preliminary calculations and a long talk with an engineer at Garrett, this probably wouldn't take place until about 1000-1200 HP. Keep in mind our compressor wheel speed (both turbos) will be very low.