Twin Turbo Charge our 55's?
09-29-2006, 06:42 PM
#101
There are major differencs in our proposed kit and your car. Your car uses a supercharger to feed a turbocharger in order to reduce lag, ours, feeds a supercharger with two turbochargers to increase total power output. You may have experienced an increase in IAT's at high boost because at that point it may be likely that the supercharger became a restiction subsequently increasing temperature, not to mention that your compressors have to spin at a higher RPM to make the same boost due to altitude. We should not have that problem for a few reasons. First is that we are already making approximately 400 WHP and our twin screw blower gives our setup the characteristics of a larger displacement NA motor. Our powerband is very much like a 7.0L-7.5L naturally aspirated motor.
We are going to be using two turbos with a rating of about 800 HP each. Why? Twin 63's can produce about 125-150 HP each with less than 5 PSI. Our goal is to keep the boost down and CFM up. We should see a substantial incease in power without seeing an insurmountable amount of heat. This is due to the simple fact that the turbos will barely be working and shouldn't generate any more heat than the blower makes already with a 14 psi pulley. Your 2.0L engine requires more than double the boost that a 5.4L would require to make the same horsepower with the same turbocharger. We need even less boost as we are feeding an engine with 7.0L-7.5L airfow characteristics. Heat should not be an issue. Even if it is, we're developing the SLR style intercooler upgrade anyway. I don't think we'll need it to reach 650 WHP safely, but it wouldn't hurt.
We are going to be using two turbos with a rating of about 800 HP each. Why? Twin 63's can produce about 125-150 HP each with less than 5 PSI. Our goal is to keep the boost down and CFM up. We should see a substantial incease in power without seeing an insurmountable amount of heat. This is due to the simple fact that the turbos will barely be working and shouldn't generate any more heat than the blower makes already with a 14 psi pulley. Your 2.0L engine requires more than double the boost that a 5.4L would require to make the same horsepower with the same turbocharger. We need even less boost as we are feeding an engine with 7.0L-7.5L airfow characteristics. Heat should not be an issue. Even if it is, we're developing the SLR style intercooler upgrade anyway. I don't think we'll need it to reach 650 WHP safely, but it wouldn't hurt.
Actually our desings are very similar. My supercharger did not feed the turbos. Basically our idea was to take a 2.0L engine and make it act like a 4.0L engine, very similar to your idea. At 45psi we made about 800hp with very little lag. Your heat problem is going to be due to the fact that you have a supercharger and 2 turbo's running in a small space. The E55 is already notorious for heat issues and your setup without a monster intercooling system will produce a lot of heat.
Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that you're trying to do something different. People like you keep the tuning world fun. I just don't understand the need for a supercharger when the E55 already seems to be traction limited at launch and will spool a twin turbo system with ease.
If you get a chance please look up www.union7.net and give Roberto a call. He's great guy and I think that you'll be surprised when you find out exactly how the Evo systems works as it's very different than anything that's been attempted in the past.
Anyways, good luck and have fun building this beast!
09-29-2006, 06:53 PM
#102
I'll reply in order using your numbering:
1. The turbos will blow colder than you may think. Remember, there are two of them each being used to less than 1/5th of their potential
2.There will be some resistance exerted by the blower. Given our target boost pressure of 4-5 psi, this will be negligable.
There is a point no doubt at which the blower would choke up the turbos, there has to be given the configuration and the mismatched CFM potential of the components. According to some preliminary calculations and a long talk with an engineer at Garrett, this probably wouldn't take place until about 1000-1200 HP. Keep in mind our compressor wheel speed (both turbos) will be very low.
1. The turbos will blow colder than you may think. Remember, there are two of them each being used to less than 1/5th of their potential
2.There will be some resistance exerted by the blower. Given our target boost pressure of 4-5 psi, this will be negligable.
There is a point no doubt at which the blower would choke up the turbos, there has to be given the configuration and the mismatched CFM potential of the components. According to some preliminary calculations and a long talk with an engineer at Garrett, this probably wouldn't take place until about 1000-1200 HP. Keep in mind our compressor wheel speed (both turbos) will be very low.
Why use turbos that are so large that they're only going to use 1/5 of their potential? Use smaller turbos, ditch the supercharger and you'll have a car that makes more power, hooks up better, weighs less, isn't as complex, and is quicker. You're only (only...hahaha) shooting for between 650 and 800 HP, this can be obtained without the added complexity. I'd understand if you were trying to increase the driveability of the car but the 55 engine doesn't need any low end help.
09-29-2006, 07:14 PM
#103
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a point no doubt at which the blower would choke up the turbos, there has to be given the configuration and the mismatched CFM potential of the components. According to some preliminary calculations and a long talk with an engineer at Garrett, this probably wouldn't take place until about 1000-1200 HP. Keep in mind our compressor wheel speed (both turbos) will be very low.
09-29-2006, 07:26 PM
#104
Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
Hey David,
The main reason is that the majority of people want something that is fairly bolt-on and dont want to butcher up their car to put the turbo kit on. This way it is a straight forward bolton that can be returned to stock in case of warranty problems.
In order to do the TT without the S/C alot of electronics would have to be created in order to get around the Bypass valve and the S/C clutch engagement.. If the ECU doesnt see the S/C clutch it will think there is something wrong and will go into limp mode.
Keeping the S/C where it is and just adding turbos (which arent going under the hood by the way) keeps the car looking stock when you pop the hood. You wont even see the turbos!!!
After Stage 2, if we want more power than 800rwhp we may invent a Stage 3 and pull the S/C, put on a pair of BIG turbo, and shoot for 1000rwhp.
The main reason is that the majority of people want something that is fairly bolt-on and dont want to butcher up their car to put the turbo kit on. This way it is a straight forward bolton that can be returned to stock in case of warranty problems.
In order to do the TT without the S/C alot of electronics would have to be created in order to get around the Bypass valve and the S/C clutch engagement.. If the ECU doesnt see the S/C clutch it will think there is something wrong and will go into limp mode.
Keeping the S/C where it is and just adding turbos (which arent going under the hood by the way) keeps the car looking stock when you pop the hood. You wont even see the turbos!!!
After Stage 2, if we want more power than 800rwhp we may invent a Stage 3 and pull the S/C, put on a pair of BIG turbo, and shoot for 1000rwhp.
09-29-2006, 07:35 PM
#105
Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
Our mindset is as follows:
- Spin the S/C using an aftermarket pulley (+2psi to +3psi) which will give us 13.6psi of boost. This will provide the low end grunt and the instant throttle response that everyone loves about these compressors.
- Use 2 fairly sized turbos (GT28, GT30 something like that) with large exhaust side and run them at low boost. We would put a 5psi or 6psi spring in the waste gates and they would be fixed. This will keep them pumping and not even break a sweat. For Stage 2 or more, we would experiment with 8psi or 10psi wastegate springs and see what this thing will do with 20psi stuffed inside the manifold.
- The turbos would be sized to provide boost onset at 3,200RPM - 3,500RPM. This will allow the S/C to propel the car at the bottom, and then, once it hits 3,200RPM you better hold on for dear life!! Ever see "Back To The Future" ??
Of course, this is all theoretical until we actually get it running on Derek's car and do some testing.
- Spin the S/C using an aftermarket pulley (+2psi to +3psi) which will give us 13.6psi of boost. This will provide the low end grunt and the instant throttle response that everyone loves about these compressors.
- Use 2 fairly sized turbos (GT28, GT30 something like that) with large exhaust side and run them at low boost. We would put a 5psi or 6psi spring in the waste gates and they would be fixed. This will keep them pumping and not even break a sweat. For Stage 2 or more, we would experiment with 8psi or 10psi wastegate springs and see what this thing will do with 20psi stuffed inside the manifold.
- The turbos would be sized to provide boost onset at 3,200RPM - 3,500RPM. This will allow the S/C to propel the car at the bottom, and then, once it hits 3,200RPM you better hold on for dear life!! Ever see "Back To The Future" ??
Of course, this is all theoretical until we actually get it running on Derek's car and do some testing.
Guys,
You might want to re-think the idea of twincharging (supercharger + turbos). In theory it sounds like a great idea becasue you get the low end torque of a supercharger and the upper end power of a turbo. I've attached some pictures of my Evolution 8. It's a twincharged design and took ever 18 months to build and tune properly. I live in Colorado so I needed the supercharger to help spool this huge turbo. At my altitude this would have been a lag monster.
The system worked well but was high maintainence and big bucks. It's not near as simple as you think. The supercharger has to be bypassed at some point in order for designed power numbers to be reached. Also, be prepared for major heat! The intercooler system in itself was a huge feat of engineering. The supercharger that I used should look familar as it was made by Kleemann's OEM partner. Kleemann actual helped designed some of the components and ideas used for this car but the majority of the work was done by Brandon G.'s buddy Roberto Arano from www.union7.net. Roberto is scary smart when it comes to radical tuning ideas.
In addition, the E55 is already traction limited and has enough displacement to spool large turbos and put down decent low end power without the kompressor. Remove the supercharger and you'll reduce weight, heat, complexity, and you'll hook up better at launch. I'd be willing to bet pinks (j/k) that a well engineered twin turbo E55 would smoke a twincharged (supercharger and twin turbos) E55 at the drag strip and on the street.
Trust me, the engineering on this project to make it work properly is going to be huge. My advice is to bail on the supercharger or call Roberto and be prepared to spend big bucks and lot sof time. Please feel free to ask any questions on my twin charge design and I'll try to answer them.
Good luck!
http://72.41.83.159/images/st-anima-opt.gif
You might want to re-think the idea of twincharging (supercharger + turbos). In theory it sounds like a great idea becasue you get the low end torque of a supercharger and the upper end power of a turbo. I've attached some pictures of my Evolution 8. It's a twincharged design and took ever 18 months to build and tune properly. I live in Colorado so I needed the supercharger to help spool this huge turbo. At my altitude this would have been a lag monster.
The system worked well but was high maintainence and big bucks. It's not near as simple as you think. The supercharger has to be bypassed at some point in order for designed power numbers to be reached. Also, be prepared for major heat! The intercooler system in itself was a huge feat of engineering. The supercharger that I used should look familar as it was made by Kleemann's OEM partner. Kleemann actual helped designed some of the components and ideas used for this car but the majority of the work was done by Brandon G.'s buddy Roberto Arano from www.union7.net. Roberto is scary smart when it comes to radical tuning ideas.
In addition, the E55 is already traction limited and has enough displacement to spool large turbos and put down decent low end power without the kompressor. Remove the supercharger and you'll reduce weight, heat, complexity, and you'll hook up better at launch. I'd be willing to bet pinks (j/k) that a well engineered twin turbo E55 would smoke a twincharged (supercharger and twin turbos) E55 at the drag strip and on the street.
Trust me, the engineering on this project to make it work properly is going to be huge. My advice is to bail on the supercharger or call Roberto and be prepared to spend big bucks and lot sof time. Please feel free to ask any questions on my twin charge design and I'll try to answer them.
Good luck!
http://72.41.83.159/images/st-anima-opt.gif
09-29-2006, 07:47 PM
#106
Vrus,
Very interesting idea. I didn't even think of the STS approach. If I understand this correctly you're going to mount the turbos under the car (the exhaust) and run very low boost like the STS kit. Neat idea, especially if your goal is a bolt on kit! Just make sure that you do whatever you can to beef up the IC system as the E55 already runs too hot.
Also, it's my understanding that STS has some fairly tight patents on this concept. Just becareful as they are very aggressive in defending these patents.
Good luck as this sounds like a fun project. I'd still like to see someone build a traditional turbo kit for this car similar to the Hellion turbo kits for the supercharged '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra's. This is a mod that I'd do in a second if/when it becomes available.
Very interesting idea. I didn't even think of the STS approach. If I understand this correctly you're going to mount the turbos under the car (the exhaust) and run very low boost like the STS kit. Neat idea, especially if your goal is a bolt on kit! Just make sure that you do whatever you can to beef up the IC system as the E55 already runs too hot.
Also, it's my understanding that STS has some fairly tight patents on this concept. Just becareful as they are very aggressive in defending these patents.
Good luck as this sounds like a fun project. I'd still like to see someone build a traditional turbo kit for this car similar to the Hellion turbo kits for the supercharged '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra's. This is a mod that I'd do in a second if/when it becomes available.
09-29-2006, 07:50 PM
#107
MBWorld Fanatic!
vrus,
so you guys are looking at a remote mounted turbo set up? how far back are you looking to mount the turbos? being back far enough could allow for enough charge air cooling that our weak i/c's may be able to keep up (at least on stage 1). and the fact that we don't need the turbos to spool up instantly would negate any worries about lag from the turbos themselves or the remote mounting. not to mention it wouldn't (significantly)increase the traction problem that we already face.
...interesting.
so you guys are looking at a remote mounted turbo set up? how far back are you looking to mount the turbos? being back far enough could allow for enough charge air cooling that our weak i/c's may be able to keep up (at least on stage 1). and the fact that we don't need the turbos to spool up instantly would negate any worries about lag from the turbos themselves or the remote mounting. not to mention it wouldn't (significantly)increase the traction problem that we already face.
...interesting.
Last edited by chiromikey; 09-29-2006 at 07:55 PM.
09-29-2006, 08:28 PM
#110
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CL65
Only if we try to go over 1000-1200 HP. And it's questionable if we'd overboost the inlet of the supercharger even at that power level. I guess we don't have to worry about it until MB or AMG make a transmission to handle that power and an ECU to sustain it. Those are both more valid limiting factors to these cars' performance from an aftermarket upgrade/tuning standpoint.
09-29-2006, 08:42 PM
#112
Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
Not really an STS approach.. They put their turbos at the back of the car and replace the mufflers. We are talking about mounting them under the car towards the front.
We are going to see if we can hit our goals for Stage 1 with the stock I/C system. If not, we will make an upgraded I/C system a component of the Stage 1 kit instead of the Stage 2 kit.
Once we see the power level limits of the twin-charger setup, we'll have our answer on whether or not it is worthwhile to go the other route and do a full-out TT only setup. To be honest, if the twin-charger setup works, why tear apart half the car to do it the other way?
The turbos are going to be more forward than back.. We want a fairly straight shot right up to the TB with minimal piping.
We are going to see if we can hit our goals for Stage 1 with the stock I/C system. If not, we will make an upgraded I/C system a component of the Stage 1 kit instead of the Stage 2 kit.
Once we see the power level limits of the twin-charger setup, we'll have our answer on whether or not it is worthwhile to go the other route and do a full-out TT only setup. To be honest, if the twin-charger setup works, why tear apart half the car to do it the other way?
Vrus,
Very interesting idea. I didn't even think of the STS approach. If I understand this correctly you're going to mount the turbos under the car (the exhaust) and run very low boost like the STS kit. Neat idea, especially if your goal is a bolt on kit! Just make sure that you do whatever you can to beef up the IC system as the E55 already runs too hot.
Also, it's my understanding that STS has some fairly tight patents on this concept. Just becareful as they are very aggressive in defending these patents.
Good luck as this sounds like a fun project. I'd still like to see someone build a traditional turbo kit for this car similar to the Hellion turbo kits for the supercharged '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra's. This is a mod that I'd do in a second if/when it becomes available.
Very interesting idea. I didn't even think of the STS approach. If I understand this correctly you're going to mount the turbos under the car (the exhaust) and run very low boost like the STS kit. Neat idea, especially if your goal is a bolt on kit! Just make sure that you do whatever you can to beef up the IC system as the E55 already runs too hot.
Also, it's my understanding that STS has some fairly tight patents on this concept. Just becareful as they are very aggressive in defending these patents.
Good luck as this sounds like a fun project. I'd still like to see someone build a traditional turbo kit for this car similar to the Hellion turbo kits for the supercharged '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra's. This is a mod that I'd do in a second if/when it becomes available.
Originally Posted by chiromikey
vrus,
so you guys are looking at a remote mounted turbo set up? how far back are you looking to mount the turbos? being back far enough could allow for enough charge air cooling that our weak i/c's may be able to keep up (at least on stage 1). and the fact that we don't need the turbos to spool up instantly would negate any worries about lag from the turbos themselves or the remote mounting. not to mention it wouldn't (significantly)increase the traction problem that we already face.
...interesting.
so you guys are looking at a remote mounted turbo set up? how far back are you looking to mount the turbos? being back far enough could allow for enough charge air cooling that our weak i/c's may be able to keep up (at least on stage 1). and the fact that we don't need the turbos to spool up instantly would negate any worries about lag from the turbos themselves or the remote mounting. not to mention it wouldn't (significantly)increase the traction problem that we already face.
...interesting.
09-29-2006, 08:52 PM
#113
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CL65
Vrus,
Very interesting idea. I didn't even think of the STS approach. If I understand this correctly you're going to mount the turbos under the car (the exhaust) and run very low boost like the STS kit. Neat idea, especially if your goal is a bolt on kit! Just make sure that you do whatever you can to beef up the IC system as the E55 already runs too hot.
Also, it's my understanding that STS has some fairly tight patents on this concept. Just becareful as they are very aggressive in defending these patents.
Good luck as this sounds like a fun project. I'd still like to see someone build a traditional turbo kit for this car similar to the Hellion turbo kits for the supercharged '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra's. This is a mod that I'd do in a second if/when it becomes available.
Very interesting idea. I didn't even think of the STS approach. If I understand this correctly you're going to mount the turbos under the car (the exhaust) and run very low boost like the STS kit. Neat idea, especially if your goal is a bolt on kit! Just make sure that you do whatever you can to beef up the IC system as the E55 already runs too hot.
Also, it's my understanding that STS has some fairly tight patents on this concept. Just becareful as they are very aggressive in defending these patents.
Good luck as this sounds like a fun project. I'd still like to see someone build a traditional turbo kit for this car similar to the Hellion turbo kits for the supercharged '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra's. This is a mod that I'd do in a second if/when it becomes available.
09-29-2006, 09:22 PM
#114
Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
Vlad, Vlad... You see.. You should have listened to me and just bought a used E55.. Grab an 03 or 04 and then save some money.. Send me the cash and your car and I'll get you the power you want!!!
Or, you can just buy my car once we are done because it will have the Stage 2 kit.. I'll just go move on to the SL65 and try for 1000rwhp with that platform.. LOL.
Or, you can just buy my car once we are done because it will have the Stage 2 kit.. I'll just go move on to the SL65 and try for 1000rwhp with that platform.. LOL.
09-29-2006, 09:27 PM
#115
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto,ON
Posts: 2,793
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMG
what about torque how much torque would it have with 650wrhp?
Man I just cant wait and see what this setup would do on the road.
Also What are the plans to put all that power to the ground? LSD is a must i understand what about rubber? Would 285s or 295s fit?
p.s Victor I didnt yet ordered ml63 but now i think i'll just wait and see what you will come up with!!!
And you'll gimme a ride in your car too i suppose 
Man I just cant wait and see what this setup would do on the road.
Also What are the plans to put all that power to the ground? LSD is a must i understand what about rubber? Would 285s or 295s fit?
p.s Victor I didnt yet ordered ml63 but now i think i'll just wait and see what you will come up with!!!
And you'll gimme a ride in your car too i suppose
09-29-2006, 10:03 PM
#116
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CL65
09-29-2006, 10:12 PM
#117
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
While the idea of keeping the supercharger seems like "keeping it simple" on the surface, you are adding complexity to the actual system. I can't imagine an intake plenum to replace the s/c would be too difficult to fabricate. Yes, the kit may be "simpler", but I have a feeling it will be a tuning nightmare. That said, S/C or not, I'm with you guys regardless and will definetely be buying a kit if it gives good results.
Are the turbos goiing to be mounted like the APS kits?
Are the turbos goiing to be mounted like the APS kits?
09-29-2006, 10:36 PM
#118
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In a box
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
W211 E55
A single turbo setup on a compound supercharging system wouldn't have to make tremendous boost at low revs anyway - that's what the S/C is for.
I would be happy with a single turbo to keep the piping to a minimum in an aready crowded engine bay.
Think about it - a merged exhaust aft of the stock headers into a single turbo, plumbed forward (using the path from the stock exhaust system) into a double outlet front-mount IC, piped into the SC intakes.
A standalone APEXI unit for fueling, or scale up our stock ECU for larger injectors........mmmmmmmmm.
I would be happy with a single turbo to keep the piping to a minimum in an aready crowded engine bay.
Think about it - a merged exhaust aft of the stock headers into a single turbo, plumbed forward (using the path from the stock exhaust system) into a double outlet front-mount IC, piped into the SC intakes.
A standalone APEXI unit for fueling, or scale up our stock ECU for larger injectors........mmmmmmmmm.
09-29-2006, 11:12 PM
#120
According to vrus to initial toque should be similar to now with the power kicking in after you are moving. That's totally cool. Traction should be a similar issue as it is now.
I have LSD and 285s, much better than when the car was stock.
I have LSD and 285s, much better than when the car was stock.
09-29-2006, 11:33 PM
#121
Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
2003 E55 AMG
Dan,
You better start saving now... I've already put your name down for a kit.. Drive that beast up here for a mini-vacation and we'll do the install together! LOL..
Believe it or not , Single turbo would be more awkward to fit. At the bottom of the car you've got the tranny and a bunch of other stuff sitting square in the middle. 2 smaller turbos on each side with the outlets pointing straight up and pipes converging into a Y just before the TB makes it nice and clean.
If I were to guess I would say torque will be north of 700.. 760rwtq sounds like a nice number..
LSD will probably be a necessity.. 285 or 295 makes no difference.. they will be roasted at that power level.. A 345 is what is really needed, but you'd have to cut half the trunk out.. LOL..
Of course I'll take you for a ride, but I am putting plastic on my passenger seat before you get in..
Hey.. What are you doing posting on the message board??? Shouldn't you be studying turbo compressor maps & efficiencies?? LOL... Get back to work!
Have a great weekend!
Tuning Nightmare?? Hmm.. Not sure. We'll have to cross that bridge later...
I am sure we can find the appropriate people to "lend" a hand with the tuning if need-be.
You better start saving now... I've already put your name down for a kit.. Drive that beast up here for a mini-vacation and we'll do the install together! LOL..
Originally Posted by dsc
According to vrus to initial toque should be similar to now with the power kicking in after you are moving. That's totally cool. Traction should be a similar issue as it is now.
I have LSD and 285s, much better than when the car was stock.
I have LSD and 285s, much better than when the car was stock.
Originally Posted by ChicagoX
A single turbo setup on a compound supercharging system wouldn't have to make tremendous boost at low revs anyway - that's what the S/C is for.
I would be happy with a single turbo to keep the piping to a minimum in an aready crowded engine bay.
Think about it - a merged exhaust aft of the stock headers into a single turbo, plumbed forward (using the path from the stock exhaust system) into a double outlet front-mount IC, piped into the SC intakes.
A standalone APEXI unit for fueling, or scale up our stock ECU for larger injectors........mmmmmmmmm.
I would be happy with a single turbo to keep the piping to a minimum in an aready crowded engine bay.
Think about it - a merged exhaust aft of the stock headers into a single turbo, plumbed forward (using the path from the stock exhaust system) into a double outlet front-mount IC, piped into the SC intakes.
A standalone APEXI unit for fueling, or scale up our stock ECU for larger injectors........mmmmmmmmm.
LSD will probably be a necessity.. 285 or 295 makes no difference.. they will be roasted at that power level.. A 345 is what is really needed, but you'd have to cut half the trunk out.. LOL..
Of course I'll take you for a ride, but I am putting plastic on my passenger seat before you get in..
what about torque how much torque would it have with 650wrhp?
Man I just cant wait and see what this setup would do on the road.
Also What are the plans to put all that power to the ground? LSD is a must i understand what about rubber? Would 285s or 295s fit?
p.s Victor I didnt yet ordered ml63 but now i think i'll just wait and see what you will come up with!!! And you'll gimme a ride in your car too i suppose
Man I just cant wait and see what this setup would do on the road.
Also What are the plans to put all that power to the ground? LSD is a must i understand what about rubber? Would 285s or 295s fit?
p.s Victor I didnt yet ordered ml63 but now i think i'll just wait and see what you will come up with!!!
And you'll gimme a ride in your car too i suppose Get back to work! Have a great weekend!
Originally Posted by MarkoCL55
Because lag isn't an issue and we can flow more CFM and make more power with less boost.
I am sure we can find the appropriate people to "lend" a hand with the tuning if need-be.
Originally Posted by medici78
While the idea of keeping the supercharger seems like "keeping it simple" on the surface, you are adding complexity to the actual system. I can't imagine an intake plenum to replace the s/c would be too difficult to fabricate. Yes, the kit may be "simpler", but I have a feeling it will be a tuning nightmare. That said, S/C or not, I'm with you guys regardless and will definetely be buying a kit if it gives good results.
Are the turbos goiing to be mounted like the APS kits?
Are the turbos goiing to be mounted like the APS kits?
09-29-2006, 11:44 PM
#122
That sounds like a lot of fun. I'm saving as we speak. I have already told my wife about it.
She just doesn't understand. With my power loss now she thinks the car is too fast!
But she does put up with me!
09-30-2006, 12:14 AM
#123
I just got an e-mail from Bert, the guy who built my twin charger setup. He's in Colorado building a twin turbo C55. Should be very interesting.
Last edited by G55K; 09-30-2006 at 11:25 AM.
09-30-2006, 05:11 AM
#124
Vlad, Vlad... You see.. You should have listened to me and just bought a used E55.. Grab an 03 or 04 and then save some money.. Send me the cash and your car and I'll get you the power you want!!!
Or, you can just buy my car once we are done because it will have the Stage 2 kit.. I'll just go move on to the SL65 and try for 1000rwhp with that platform.. LOL.
Or, you can just buy my car once we are done because it will have the Stage 2 kit.. I'll just go move on to the SL65 and try for 1000rwhp with that platform.. LOL.
Ted
09-30-2006, 07:41 AM
#125
MBWorld Fanatic!
If I were going to do a combination F/I engine I would opt for an underdrive on the S/C (with S/C permananetly engaged) and large turbo's.... I dont see why increasing the boost on the blower is going to help - it will sap too much power at the high end and is less efficient at providing boost at high rpm than turbo's.... thats why I think an underdrive pulley would be better option. It will also help spool the large turbos quickly.
Heat is going to be a nghtmare and getting the mapping to synchronise to the very variable and lumpy boost curve is going to be a major task.
The best answer in my opinion is do what stage7 did. Get rid of the blower - increase the size of the stock intercooler (think we need it) and add some decent sized turbo's.... if you are after max power then you are better off sacrificing low end torque by removing S/C to have it peak much higher in the rev range. Port the exhaust outlets.
That being said seeing a dual F/I system working would be something else ...
I dont see the point of making it a reverseable mod... Its a dramatic mod in any case so I would not worry about getting back to stock easily .. why would you? Even if you got rid of the S/C you could always put it back...
Alternatively just plug in a 65 motor and turn up the boost.....
Heat is going to be a nghtmare and getting the mapping to synchronise to the very variable and lumpy boost curve is going to be a major task.
The best answer in my opinion is do what stage7 did. Get rid of the blower - increase the size of the stock intercooler (think we need it) and add some decent sized turbo's.... if you are after max power then you are better off sacrificing low end torque by removing S/C to have it peak much higher in the rev range. Port the exhaust outlets.
That being said seeing a dual F/I system working would be something else ...
I dont see the point of making it a reverseable mod... Its a dramatic mod in any case so I would not worry about getting back to stock easily .. why would you? Even if you got rid of the S/C you could always put it back...
Alternatively just plug in a 65 motor and turn up the boost.....
