E63AMG

Reading through a recent post on an E55 owner's trip to the dragstrip ( https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/169229-milan-dragway.html ) made me wonder more about this subject of dragstrip vs real world street speed.

I think its easy to confuse these 2 types of speed...ie to focus on the very best times achieved at a dragstrip with a burnout and extrapolate that mean the car is equally fast on the road or at a typical stoplight.

While the best numbers he posted at the track are certainly very impressive, I wonder what would happen 8 out of 10 times if his stock E55 rolled up to a spontaneous stoplight race with a stock E63 without a "HUGE burnout" (his words).

I suspect that the stock E63 would win this kind of race 8 out of 10 times.

I could be wrong: Thoughts? Opinions? Flames?

TopGun32

2 words... trap speed.


ETA's are good, if you plan to to brag about times slips.

Trap speed if you want to know who is faster from a freeway roll.

Most of the time (disclaimer) the higher trap speed will win the highway or freeway pulls.

So far the E63 has not shown a consistent higher trap speed on the 1/4 mile track. From the 2 head to head test in Florida and Cali, the 63 performed equally to the 55.

The 7 speed auto has 2 more gears that are not really helping as much as we thought. I still believe from a roll the 63 will pull the 55 after the 100 mark, but under 100 it would be up to the driver.

m52e55

good points, but can't wait until a 63 tries to pull on my 55. lights out-sorry.

zangerbenz

to me there was no better car in the world than an e55 until i drove the e63.
my stock 55 ran a 12.6sec 1/4 mile on d/r. and on the street my mates 55 was as quick as mine.
we tried his 55 against me in the 63 and the 63 won every race comprehesively(we posted the video on the froum).
we tried from stand still
rolling @ low revs
rolling @ high revs
100km/h up
the 63 is a much superior car allround in stock form.

a pully;ecu;exhaust;etc on a 55 thats another ball game

AMG_55

i (e55, bone stock) did a few freeway rolls w/ my cousin (cls63, exhaust, 20in wheels)

this is what he said "you would pull away a about a carlength and just stay there"

these were from about60 to 110+

E63AMG

Two words: owner testing.

So far, pretty much all testing done by owners with a stock E55 and E63 seem to point to the E63 being faster on the street (80% of the time).

Am I wrong?

Vetluver

When my 55 gets beaten off the line at a stoplight will be when I will believe the 63 is quicker. My buddies with 63s still won't run me. They're waiting for their motors to "loosen up"

E63AMG

It seems like all the anecdotal evidence coming in from owners who have tested a stock E63 vs a stock E55 in the street continues to favor the E63. In addition to the testing done by Zangerbenz and by me, the latest evidence comes from E63joe in this post (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/169773-new-member-comments-e63-vs-e55.html ) He concludes his stock e63 is faster than his E55 based on testing with a Gtech.

Are examples in the street I am forgetting where the stock E55 was faster than the stock E63? It would certainly not surprise me.

BlownV8

This whole thing sounds like a Gustav thread. Blah, blah, blah. Until the E63 can post some serious numbers at the track that can beat an E55, I won't consider it a quicker car.

Here is a comparison of the E55 vs E63 on dragtimes.com:

http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.ph...ame=Compare%21

E63AMG

Sorry, but I don't know who this "Gustav" guy is, so I can't react to that statement.

You offer compelling evidence that the E55 is quicker at the dragstrip (some stock & some not). Point noted. I offered 3 compelling examples of street comparisons where the stock E63 came out ahead. I assume you have no contrary evidence or you would have offered it.

I think this is an interesting subject, i.e. trying to figure out how these cars stack up against each other both on and off the dragstrip. To you, any discussion other than which car is faster down a 1/4 mile track after a huge burnout may be "blah, blah, blah".

chiromikey

exactly. as much as i wanted, hoped, and expected the 63 to be better in every way than the 55, anecdotal evidence, videos from across the pond, UNCALIBRATED gtechs, and comparisons to recalled e55's just aren't matching the limited hard evidence we have so far from u.s. e63's.

BlownV8

The only evidence that is valid in this discussion is timed/certified drag runs. There are too many viarables in street racing to come to any difinitive conclusion. Until you can show me a E63 that can run low 12's stock, like I said, the E55 will bo considered a quicker car. As I recall, the best times we've seen from the E63 is low 13's.

As it stands, the E55 is the quicker car from a dig. I'm not saying that the E63 doesn't have merit or that it would win in certain circumstances. However, I would not consider a few street runs as evidence that the E63 is the quicker car.

housclass

my car would hardly do a burnout...bone stock 11.84, 11.89, 11.91 hot lapping...what's with the huge burnout you keep mentioning?

i live in the houston area and would enjoy meeting up with some 63's anytime...on the street or strip...anybody want to play with the slower 55...let me know?

john

chiromikey

although not as credible as 1/4mile times, i would also consider the poor 63 dyno numbers to be valid.

waxking1

I would have thought that by now there would have been more 63's post on dragtimes unless maybe they are embarrassed. The 63s may be faster but until I see the times, I don't believe it.

I'm in the Memphis area and also bone stock and would be glad to meet up with a 63 owner if we could find a safe place for testing.

Snorman

/thread
Impromptu encounters on the street, and even prearranged races leave too many variables to be considered a reasonable method by which to compare the performance of the 55 and 63. Reaction time, traction, etc. all play a role.
In reality, a few tenths and at the tree and a bit of tire spin can make the difference between a 13.0 car winning a race and a low to mid-12 second car winning the race.
I wouldn't put an ounce of stock in these "street encounter" stories. As of now, IMO, the 55 is still the faster car. It is also still the easier car to mod. And finally, it is a proven performer.
S.

E63AMG

In the thread referenced in my beginning post, https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169229 the driver mentioned his huge burnout. It seemed there may be a relationship between his ETs on the dragstrip, and the burnouts he was doing prior to the launches to improve his tires stickiness. These pre-race burnouts are missing in a normal stoplight race.

It simply made me wonder whether this phenomenon could explain why there were 3 separate reports (see below) where owners reported that multiple street tests they performed on their own vehicles (not random racers) showed the stock E63 to be faster than the stock E55.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/161712-confirmed-e63-faster-than-e55.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/167474-tested-e63-m5-run-e63-vs-e55.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169773

I am simply asking the question: Is it possible that the E55 is faster on the track with a pre-race burnout, and the E63 is faster at a stoplight race without a pre-race burnout? Without a burnout, maybe the results change since the tires dont lay down the torque as well for the E55.

It is disappointing that at this point there have not been more 1/4 mile times from owners of the E63. Of course, there was a 12.5 second time listed by Car and Driver for the E63 wagon. The only other 1/4 mile time I know of (mine) is not a good reference point because of the universally poor times on the slippery track.

Blah, blah, blah.

jmm3668

At the Atlanta meet last weekend 63's were running 12.6's @ 111mph. They dyno'd 425 RWHP. That doesn't seem to far off from E55 numbers on the dragstrip.

waxking1

I turned a 12.4 at 114.5 a couple of weeks ago in the 55. No burnout, stock tires. Traction control on and floor it. If the E63s were turning 12.6, that still seems very close. Different track, different day, the E63s may be turning a bit quicker times also.

chiromikey

that's the first credible report of the 63 laying down some respectable numbers. although still not enough for people to be claiming it's faster than the 55, I'm impressed.

any report on what stock 55's were doing that weekend?

Blue Arrow

I tried to make the same point in my thread when we tested these cars. I feel that the 55 has a lot more to give on a good strip that the 63. The 55 has so much low down torque that in most cases can only be put down properly on a prepared surface hence the good 1/4's. The 63 however has less torque initially with a linear build on the powerband. The 63 will be far more consistent on the street as well as quicker which i saw for myself. Also the street races can go to 160mph where stock to stock the 63 is more efficient.

Snorman

160mph on the street? That's just a little silly if you ask me. In fact, it's even more than just a little dangerous.
I'd be lying if I said I haven't made my fair share of passes on the street, both impromptu and "organized", but 160mph...that's just ridiculous.
S.

WayneE

I agree.

E63AMG - I'm not sure what the point of the thread really is, other than to prove to yourself that you made the right decision choosing to buy a 63 and sell your 55. I think it's been proven that, best case (for the 63 owners), the 63 and 55 are equal to each other in acceleration with the 63 trailing slightly due to the 55 rolling out of the hole harder.

Overall, it seems like the 63 is an improvement over the 55 - BUT, if you're into racing from a dig, the 55 is still king. The clocks can't be fudged, fooled or misinterpreted.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

+1 for a spot-on psychoanalysis.

This thread is entirely about buyer's remorse/insecurity.

stevebez

I think its amzing how much time and effort goes into differentiating things that are actually so close....