Is "AMG" really hand crafted?
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Is "AMG" really hand crafted?
I mean really? The name plate has been rather abused in recent years with nearly every MB line getting an AMG version including the R series minivan. Besides, the "AMG package" is available for non AMG cars which is a no-no in my opinion. Oh, there is that old Top Gear episode where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year? Unless it means only part of the engine is hand built.
I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
#3
Super Member
Thread Starter
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
how literal are you going to define the term "hand built"? it's not like they're mining the ore or cnc'ing parts out of thin air...they're assembling motors.
#6
20,000 engines with 50 workers, so pumping out average of 400 engines per year per worker.
That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.
That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.
Last edited by Insigno E55; 11-26-2006 at 05:58 AM.
Trending Topics
#8
Super Member
Each tech is capable of producing an avg of 3-4 motors a day. 4x50=200 motors a day. So, in 100 days they could fill the 20,000 quota and can still take a 200 day holiday.
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
20,000 engines with 50 workers, so pumping out average of 400 engines per month per worker.
That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.
That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.
*edit* from the amg private lounge:
"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."
Last edited by chiromikey; 11-26-2006 at 01:41 AM.
#10
Super Member
Thread Starter
i think i remember reading they're building 100 motors per day. so that's 1 before lunch, one after lunch for each tech for only 200 out of 365 days. it doesn't sound so far fetched in that light.
*edit* from the amg private lounge:
"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."
*edit* from the amg private lounge:
"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."
The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
'03 G500, '13 G63, '17 GLS63,
You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.
The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.
#13
Banned
How do you equate a build time of 4 hours with not equating to "craftsmanship"??
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island & Hong Kong
Posts: 1,264
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
20+ to list......
Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear said that AMG doesn't only hand build engines for Mercedes, but also Pagani. Given the right tools and all the needed parts of an engine, it's very possible. All they need to do is to put the engine together, and let the assisting machine do the checking and testing, then they put their own plague on top of it.
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.
The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
your argument is like saying rolex isn't hand assembled because a patek is better. although craftsmanship is probably implied and there are different levels of craftsmanship, craftsmanship is not the claim here...it's assembly.
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
This is how they are built according to this article:
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=72472&pg=1
..."in a large room pleasantly bathed in sunlight, around thirty employees are working on AMG V8s, all proudly mounted on special lifts. Following the "one man, one engine" motto, each highly qualified mechanic is responsible for the entire assembly of his or her own engine -- from the positioning of the crankshaft to the very first oil filling. A total of nearly 500 components are installed by these expert hands."........
Interesting article, sounds like craftmanship...
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=72472&pg=1
..."in a large room pleasantly bathed in sunlight, around thirty employees are working on AMG V8s, all proudly mounted on special lifts. Following the "one man, one engine" motto, each highly qualified mechanic is responsible for the entire assembly of his or her own engine -- from the positioning of the crankshaft to the very first oil filling. A total of nearly 500 components are installed by these expert hands."........
Interesting article, sounds like craftmanship...
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
10 Posts
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I think Benz pushes more "one man one engine" than "hand made".
These guys really take pride in their work and it shows. Ya just can't argue.....these motors are simpletons in design, but SOLID as a rock.
I may have missed one, but in my years on the forum, have not had heard of one AMG motor throwing a rod or toasting a piston etc. We've had some supercharger problems and such, but those AMG guts just keep on delivering.
There was the kid who made the homemade NOS system and toasted his E55 and that video is all over the net, but again, it was a homemade NOS setup.
These guys really take pride in their work and it shows. Ya just can't argue.....these motors are simpletons in design, but SOLID as a rock.
I may have missed one, but in my years on the forum, have not had heard of one AMG motor throwing a rod or toasting a piston etc. We've had some supercharger problems and such, but those AMG guts just keep on delivering.
There was the kid who made the homemade NOS system and toasted his E55 and that video is all over the net, but again, it was a homemade NOS setup.
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Fallon, NV
Posts: 1,248
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
BMW and Mercedes
I mean really? The name plate has been rather abused in recent years with nearly every MB line getting an AMG version including the R series minivan. Besides, the "AMG package" is available for non AMG cars which is a no-no in my opinion. Oh, there is that old Top Gear episode where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year? Unless it means only part of the engine is hand built.
I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
Last edited by FLYNAVY; 11-26-2006 at 02:03 PM.
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
CLK500/Range Rover HSE/E55 AMG/Bmw 328Xi coupe/BMW 4.8x/Bmw 335i/GS350/Audi S5/E350
If you have visited the AMG plant you will understand the process.... Its an amazing facility. They guys who build our 55 engines are different than the guys who built the V12/SLR engines. DUring the tour they stated each person can built ALMOST 2 engines a day....
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
...where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year?...
I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
#24
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,240
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
E550 4MATIC
lol I was doing all the math 20,000 / 50 = 400 engines and then read the posts and saw everyone already covered that. heh. Well - a) are we sure AMG only has 50 ppl building? The Number goes down to 333 engines per person per year if there are 60 workers. 285 with 70 workers.... so anyways - you get my point.
Last edited by pmb600; 11-28-2006 at 12:30 PM. Reason: typo