SleeperX

No hacking. are the resonators and 100 cell cat bolt-ons? (ie. no welding involved)

komp55

Well, it looks like both Burns and Performance Welding Headers agree that stainless is the way to go for headers, so I have no idea why you're trying to divert away from the fact that Evo doesn't use stainless for their headers by dissing Renntech for using a superior material (304 stainless), but not the more preferred material (321 stainless).

Not that it matters, but I think we're discussing shorty E55 headers here, which use far less tubing than the headers you produce for the M3. Heck, here you've got guys that are dropping five figures on the complete Supersprint system.

Adding $1K to the price brings you near, but less than where Renntech has priced their headers. Let's see - 321 stainless Evo header - they're about the same price as Renntech, a better design, using better stainless steel; damn, I wonder why Evo didn't think of that?

otoupalik

I do not know, sorry.

Actually, that is not what they say at all. What they say is 321 or better is superior. Burns says that 304 is cheap and is not proper for a supercharged car. And as for putting words in my mouth, I never mentioned that other brand. BTW, you are assuming that we use 1010, which is not the case, we use a superior metal to that. Let me re-state and try to be as clear as possible the coated MILD carbon steel we use is superior to 304 for a production header in every way.

To quote (AGAIN): "304 is the most inexpensive and available stainless in the 300 series. It is suitable for normally-aspirated header applications, and has been successfully used by many racing teams. It does not have the high temperature fatigue resistance that 321 does, but is considerably less costly and much more available."

Unless you have a low EGT E55 (which does not exist), I am not sure how you can misunderstand this.

If you have some metallurgical engineering background or some reliable real world proof to support your statement, please share. We have both in house (two engineers involved in this header and countless happy customers over the last 5 years of making headers) and stand behind our choice or material 100% - that is why ONLY our headers carry a lifetime warranty!

The length has no issue as to the amount of heat in the header, especially on a supercharged car. Heat is heat.

Not a good idea - too expensive and there is no reason to do it. In 4 years of Mercedes headers we have not had one header fail - NOT one in over 300 sold. So why would we increase the price just to be able to have an easier marketing pitch. That is not what evosport is - we don't do things just for marketing reasons, we offer the best products at the best value - PERIOD.

If you want to debate this, I will not be replying. I have posted enough information here for most to intelligently and logically examine the issue. For those that just want to argue without anything more the assumption I will not take part in that, it is not helpful for anyone.

Thanks
Brad

2MANYCARS

EVOSport is the way to go, although I dont have them, been reading lots of positive reviews, so you wouldn't go wrong. I have a full Supersprint setup, which was great in the pictures on the internet, but when I physically got it, its nothing but fitment issues, after that's taken care of, comes the CEL because of cats modification. I don't think I would go with Supersprint again, because I don't want to run into the same problem over.

otoupalik

thanks for all the positive comments from so many of you guys!

Means a lot that the true enthusiasts and insane E55 modders here support our stuff!

Thanks
Brad

stevebez

If it would fit a RHD car - you might have another customer....

komp55

Please share yours since you keep riding this horse. I know you're just bursting inside to let us all know how credentialed you are. So come on, spill the beans. Then we can be shocked and awed.

The statement I made was in response to your comment about the cost of using 321 in M3 headers. Obviously, cost to use 321 in E55 shorty headers would be far less than in long tube M3 headers, which was my point. Surely, you understood that.

Debate? I thought everyone was engaged in a friendly discussion about header design and materials. For offering the "best products at the best value" you sure seem defensive and testy about your shorty E55 headers. Chill, man; it's all good.

chiromikey

no need to take offense, but to imply that evosport's shorty headers are why you have "the fastest stage 2 e55" is silly. when you figure out how da plays into the mix you'll understand (and agree with) what i stated...as well as understand why places like atco, mir, and a few other select tracks along coastal states are always the record setting tracks for all types of cars.

ROCKETW19

yes the whole system bolted up. i wasnt there but was told not 1 problem bolting together everthing went smooth.

phatmitzu

EVO headers -> 100 cell primery cats -> second cats delete -> resonators delete with no CEL issue??

Which 100 cell cats are you using?

rflow306

Actually, I think DJe55 might be on to something. His car has posted exceptional 60 ft's and traps, i'm not sure it's just the track surface or the weather. I have a larger pulley and a tb over him and can't get ta better 60ft than 1.69. I have tried all different approaches flashing the convertor and stalling as high as possible with no luck. On motor with mt dr's i would get zero tire spin when the diff was working right, so the traction was there. I think the bottom line is his setup makes good horsepower with a wider torque curve than the others. Maybe victor can chime in since he has a similar set-up.

chiromikey

i'm not doubting he's got a strong car but i can guarantee that da is playing a much bigger role than evosport headers, especially when it comes to trap speeds. i'd be willing to bet his car would run no better than 11.6x at 120mph here in phoenix or at most other tracks with poor da (which is still quite impressive for a stage 2 e55).

when it comes to 60ft times, i would say it's your track or your technique rather than think his headers are creating the difference...especially since i'm posting 1.71's on regular 19" street tires and a crappy track.

not that anyone listens to me but i've been a proponent of NOT stalling our converter and just launching from idle and the few people that have tried it all seem to agree that it yields better 60ft times. there are too many variables when there's no direct link between your foot and the tb and i firmly believe the ecu hinders acceleration when the gas and brake pedal are pressed simultaneously.

ROCKETW19

super sprint. i have the whole system. no cell lights

Fast55

I think with 300+ sets of headers out there with zero failures = debate is over. The only possible reason to use any grade of stainless over what is currently offered would be corrosion resistance, but since no one is complaining of rust (that I'm aware of anyway), again, the debate is over. I like stainless myself, but we have seen at least 2 Kleemann failures from forum members. I don't recall either K or R offering a lifetime warranty?

jangy

I also prefer stainless, but agree that I have heard of many more than just 2 cracked headers from Kleeman. I don't know about RennTech's.

I do agree that the degree part of the debate is a mute point, as EVOSport has done waaay more experimentation and research than any single one of us. Debating is one thing, throwing jabs is another. Why would we expect EVO folks not to take pride in their work? The fact that they will get on here and clarify things from time to time is good to me. I don't see RennTech's crew on here, eventhough I know that they monitor the boards.

komp55

Vadim, who actually designed the Evo headers says they're aluminized steel. Since he designed them, my inclination is to believe he knows which material he used.

Brad, who enjoys busting my chops for me questioning why Evo didn't use stainless says the Evo headers aren't aluminized steel.

So are the Evo headers made from aluminzed steel or not? Designer and website say yes. Brad says no. Some clarification on this would be helpful to those of us considering a purchase of headers for our E55s.

And for those concerned about a dead horse being beaten, I think the information that has been shared as a result of this thread has been a good learning experience for most of us. I definitely know more about header design and materials than when this all started. Next step for me will be to place my order for Evo headers, as I am done flogging this topic.

Vadim @ FD

Original prototype was made using aluminized steel, since it is easily accesbli through a muffler shop.

Production version used carbon steel 45/90 bends to create proper curvature.

This why there is a confusion.

In the end the testimonies of the owners of the headers speak for themsleves.

stevebez

Hey Vadim while u here - will it fit a RHD?

otoupalik

Thanks Jangy. And this comes from someone who has NO vested interest in evosport in anyway.

Thanks!

ROCKETW19

oh but im sure he will! hes a smart guy using the power of the world wide web to help him and his SD bros.

Vadim @ FD

I am not sure it will or not. It will have to be fitted to be 100% sure. Let me check around and see If I can dig up more info.

stevebez

I suppose if the headers are sysmetrical there should not be a problem - if they are not sym then it could be tricky....

goalie_k

Guys - Renntech headers are made from 321 SS not 304.

jangy

Way to keep me in check. Truth be known, and I am sure anyone here can attest. NONE of the SDCrew runs ANY EvoSport products. Not only that, I have been quite the critic of theirs through the years. The reason for my objective statements isn't to "hook" my crew up, but simply to give credit where it is due. I was, indeed quite the critic of theirs, and yet I find that in the end they keep happy customers, so I have to give props.

To make it simple, EVO stage 1 cars are up and running and mine is still down after three weeks. Having spent well over $100K on that toy, just to have it sit out of my control has definitely made me reconsider some of my assumptions.

Everyone knows I am HUGE on researching every aspect of ANYTHING before I jump in. I have spent years asking questions and bugging everyone on every topic from wheels to performance upgrades and if you note, I ended up pushing RennTech. I am still on the path of putting RennTech parts on my own car, but am actually looking to source and or help develope novel products rather than going with any established company from here on out.

Basically, nobody caters to the extremist like myself and so I will.

SO, just to help you with your story. Do I wish I had given EvoSport more of a chance? Heck yes. i consider that an error in my due diligence. I simply allowed a single conversation with a single person to taint my image of them.
Am I happy that I bought into RennTech as a be all and end all? Heck NO! I assumed customer service would be proactive and it simply isn't. Have they done what the law demands? Yes. Do they owe me anything? No. Could they have done more to appease me and help themselves in the long run? We'll see.

jangy

There is no need to be spiteful that I do take care of mine. We simply went with RennTech because of the deep discounts and so we had nothing to lose. You went the route of wanting to simply be different and so you pay more. That is something you may want to address with RennTech and Euroelites. Hating on others won't really make you feel better, or does it?