*** Kleemann / ASP/ RENNTECH Pulley question!!!!!!!!!********
#1
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Question-
Is it possible to install the Kleemann / asp/ renntech pulley without the software?
How does the car respond without the ecu changes? a/f ratio?
Thanks for the help!
-Jordan
Is it possible to install the Kleemann / asp/ renntech pulley without the software?
How does the car respond without the ecu changes? a/f ratio?
Thanks for the help!
-Jordan
#2
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=pulley
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=pulley
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=pulley
I hope those help you out. Searching does wonders
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=pulley
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=pulley
I hope those help you out. Searching does wonders
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#3
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My understanding is no. From what Kleeman told me, the pulley increases boost but the ecu has to be re-programmed to provide the correct AF for the increased boost. This is my understanding.
#5
I've had an ASP pulley for 7 months without an ecu tune. Does it run rich? Yes.
Does it run fast? Oh heck yeah.
Do I care enough to have an ecu flash that's no different from one car to another? No.
One day, specific tuning will be available for each car, then I'm up for it.
Does it run fast? Oh heck yeah.
Do I care enough to have an ecu flash that's no different from one car to another? No.
One day, specific tuning will be available for each car, then I'm up for it.
#6
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06 EuroElites E55
#7
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2015 S212
The car runs so rich as it is. Adding a little boost just doesn't take that rich away.
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#9
I'm running an ASP with no software. The car is a bit jerky, and downshifts from 2nd to 1st can sometimes be mildly violent, but the car runs great overall. Power feels unlimited and acceleration is linear and significantly faster than a stock E55. My father has a stock '04, and I can most definitely notice a difference between the two. So far the car has had no problems with cooling (I did have the problem with the IC shutoff, but the dealer fixed that and its been fine since) and idle is constant and unwavering. Hope this helps.
#11
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1989 Toyota Tercel EZ - dyno'd @ 70whp/77wtq
My car is with Renntech pulley w/o ECU update. Increase in power? Yes... I could feel it. Plus, S/C whine is a little louder now due to increase in boost.
The car has worse jerk when S/C engages. According to Adam the tuner, it can be minimized by remapping the ECU. I'm not that techie... but that's what he told me.![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
He suggested me the following upgrades after pulley upgrades: ECU, cooling and then other stuff like aux. tensioner, TB, header, etc.
The car has worse jerk when S/C engages. According to Adam the tuner, it can be minimized by remapping the ECU. I'm not that techie... but that's what he told me.
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
He suggested me the following upgrades after pulley upgrades: ECU, cooling and then other stuff like aux. tensioner, TB, header, etc.
#12
I've had an ASP pulley for 7 months without an ecu tune. Does it run rich? Yes.
Does it run fast? Oh heck yeah.
Do I care enough to have an ecu flash that's no different from one car to another? No.
One day, specific tuning will be available for each car, then I'm up for it.
Does it run fast? Oh heck yeah.
Do I care enough to have an ecu flash that's no different from one car to another? No.
One day, specific tuning will be available for each car, then I'm up for it.
Ted
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
A couple of things ... the jerkyness is lag of the S/C spooling up / boost build up / clutch engaging and perhaps some belt slip ... - this BTW is only from when the S/C is disengaged to engaging - if its already engaged and you floor it - its whiplash city ...
On the ECU - I have a theory here where I think the ECU sees the higher boost and dumps fuel to protect the motor... i.e. even more than in a stock setup where the car runs rich. Not ideal by any means, but also means you can run without ecu tune but you will be leaving power on the table if you do not do a tune. This will also only help if the car is runnign cool enough. If IAT's get too high timing will be pulled / and or fuel dumped ... so even a tune may not work as desired unless motor is seeing cool enough IAT's.
The problem is finding a specific tune for your mods - e.g. TB, Headers, Pulley, Fuel, Airbox, Filters, cooling system all contribute to how agressive the tune can be.
The only guys I know who do custom tunes is Wetterauer. I will go with them once all my mods are finally installed ...
It seems the concensus is you need to start off with cooling the motor more before you add any more boost...
On the ECU - I have a theory here where I think the ECU sees the higher boost and dumps fuel to protect the motor... i.e. even more than in a stock setup where the car runs rich. Not ideal by any means, but also means you can run without ecu tune but you will be leaving power on the table if you do not do a tune. This will also only help if the car is runnign cool enough. If IAT's get too high timing will be pulled / and or fuel dumped ... so even a tune may not work as desired unless motor is seeing cool enough IAT's.
The problem is finding a specific tune for your mods - e.g. TB, Headers, Pulley, Fuel, Airbox, Filters, cooling system all contribute to how agressive the tune can be.
The only guys I know who do custom tunes is Wetterauer. I will go with them once all my mods are finally installed ...
It seems the concensus is you need to start off with cooling the motor more before you add any more boost...
Last edited by stevebez; 07-02-2007 at 09:44 AM.
#14
On the ECU - I have a theory here where I think the ECU sees the higher boost and dumps fuel to protect the motor... i.e. even more than in a stock setup where the car runs rich. Not ideal by any means, but also means you can run without ecu tune but you will be leaving power on the table if you do not do a tune. This will also only help if the car is runnign cool enough. If IAT's get too high timing will be pulled / and or fuel dumped ... so even a tune may not work as desired unless motor is seeing cool enough IAT's.
#15
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2004 S55 AMG
I thought this might be the case as well, particuarly for cars with after market pullies. However, yesterday I came up with another explanation. Belt slippage. Does the A/f ratio become rich because the ECU is dumping fuel or because the belt is slipping causing the car to suck in less air. I believe both would cause the A/F ratio to become rich.
#17
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2018 E63S wagon, 2016 GLE350d, GLE450 on order
one of my first upgrades was a Kleemann pulley without any software upgrade. It made a big difference and a/f was still ok, with no evidence of belt slippage. S/C whine much more noticeable, sounded great
btw, my car had the "reflash" and still ran strong stock and after the pulley mods...
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#18
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I have ran both my AMG's with no ECU and aftermarket pullies.. no issues with engine codes ect..
I do agree, the ASP pulley is a great, but cooling mods should be 2nd in line vs the ECU.
I do agree, the ASP pulley is a great, but cooling mods should be 2nd in line vs the ECU.
#19
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2015 S212
I personally do not think that the ECU tune will make the jerkiness any milder. That is simply a side effect of having a larger pulley working against the engagement and disengagement of the clutch. You could have the ECU tuned so that it would do the engagement and disengagement at varying times, making it seem less jerky, but you'll lose power that way.
I don't think that even the ASP pulley is big enough to cause fuel dump. The car runs rich OEM. With a pulley, it actually runs slightly less so, but still rich. If the pulley were causing the dump, you'd be seeing A/F dumping AFTER the pulley and that is not what I see.
I personally do not want the ASP for 2 reasons. 1st, I am scared of the re-machined OEM part concept for high speed parts. Second, I see that size as going beyond diminishing returns. The added boost is minimal and the added weight is NOT.
For me, I'd love to find a nicely engineered 170mm with weight reduction.
None of this has anything to do with ECU, but again I say show me the data. Why has nobody EVER posted the gains from a stage 1 ECU tune, especially on an '06 (made in '06)?
#20
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
I thought this might be the case as well, particuarly for cars with after market pullies. However, yesterday I came up with another explanation. Belt slippage. Does the A/f ratio become rich because the ECU is dumping fuel or because the belt is slipping causing the car to suck in less air. I believe both would cause the A/F ratio to become rich.
#21
...
I don't think that even the ASP pulley is big enough to cause fuel dump. The car runs rich OEM. With a pulley, it actually runs slightly less so, but still rich. If the pulley were causing the dump, you'd be seeing A/F dumping AFTER the pulley and that is not what I see.
I don't think that even the ASP pulley is big enough to cause fuel dump. The car runs rich OEM. With a pulley, it actually runs slightly less so, but still rich. If the pulley were causing the dump, you'd be seeing A/F dumping AFTER the pulley and that is not what I see.
Explain the "added weight" issue to me, I'm not clear on that at all.