T Bone

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/02/auto...ion=2008010214

How many 4 bangers must MB sell to offset AMG cars to make the CAFE limits?

BTW, this is not a slight on MB, BMW is just as guilty.

Jakpro1

Literally a drop in the bucket for a company of this size. I'd wager to say it is just worked into the budget.

IMO, it's a smear campaign. If you didn't know the information below, you'd think those mean ole Germans were out to hurt "mother Earth" with their carbon dioxide emitting global warming monsters.

KrisKeeney

Right on!!

And by the way, in terms of our driving needs and related fuel consumption, at least Venezuala and the Arab World are on our side.

I hope to be driving my Beast long after the Socialists force us to drive a Prius

KrisKeeney

"Just as guilty?" No, wrong. "Just as accomplished" is what you meant to say (in this category anyway).

ZedStyle

what does that even mean? it's an accomplishment to be fined for your cars using too much gas? that's just silly. i'm not a tree hugger, but i hope you were being sarcastic.


anyway, the fine is like two days of their r&d budget... they must have already made up that and more by not putting electric seats on the c class!

KrisKeeney

Correct; being sarcastic towards many things, including government regulations, BMW, myself, etc. Just having fun. Nothing to get upset about, I promise.

I Like Soup

There is just some part of me that finds it wrong that a private company that is providing a product the market is demanding, is fined by a government. I think our forefathers would roll over in their respective graves.

trumpet1

You gotta remember you're dealing with the U.S.A., which now stands for the Unbelievable Sea of Absurdity. I'm afraid it's gonna get worse.

KrisKeeney

You are correct, Sir!

T Bone

Left to our own devices, we would have cannons mounted on our 2000 hp wagens.

There is a fine balance for public good then there is reactionary politics. Have you guys seen the pollution output from India and China?

Jon2007E63P30

At the risk of getting into politics......

Today there is a fine that I am sure MB took into account in it's product cost. If there is real value in a product, people will still buy it if the price is slightly higher. Take cigarrettes for instance. Taxed like crazy, but not outlawed and people still pay outragous amounts.

Alcohol is also taxed. It also used to be illegal.

There is nothing in the constitution that gives us the right to a 500hp car.

One of the reasons I purchased my E63 sooner than later is because in this world of political correctness and the "religion" of global warming, I think it is entirely possible that automobiles like the ones we enjoy today could be outlawed from import or manufacture in this country.

With the real risk of us getting 2 branches of the government controlled by extreme factions of the Democratic party we may face regulations that elimiate these type of cars or make them far rarer than they are today.


My 2 cents

MB_Forever

That fee is ridiculous.........

They keep increasing the CAFE much faster than technology (and large manufacturers) can keep up with. Soon, we all will have to drive Prius.

KrisKeeney

Correct on most counts. I share your understated distaste for the current trend.

One correction: your statement: "There is nothing in the constitution that gives us the right to a 500hp car."

Constitutionally, you have this backwards: the constitution was designed to be a limit on what government can do, not a limit on what we can do. In other words, the constitution set the default as "ok, government, you can do a, b, c, and ALL THE REST will remain with the people."

So, what you meant to say was "There is nothing in the constitution that takes away our right to a 500hp car."


Just a little tutorial from your friendly neighborhood lawyer. But for the vast majority of your comments, right on.

ZedStyle

they do? really? well, when was the last time they actually raised it? the CAFE has been at 27.5 mpg for OVER TWENTY YEARS, MB has had more than enought time to figure out how to comply.
there is a rule in this country regarding emissions. domestic manufacturers have never been fined. japanese manufacturers have never been fined. so it's not an impossible goal. MB happens to not be able to comply, probably because they only sell luxury cars here which tend to have larger more powerful engines. other companies have smaller cars which offset their bigger ones, MB doesn't in the US.
germany now has zones in some cities where you can only drive if you have a green sticker on your car, certifying that your emissions are below a certain level. would you prefer to see something like that? it's not just the US who is moving towards fuel economy and the like, it's everywhere. even india and china have adopted euro standards for car emissions. you can't blame the government for mercedes being unable to meet standards that have been in place for almost 25 years, that is moronic.

KrisKeeney

Easy, easy. Calm down, Hillary. Everything is going to be fine once you and the government are in charge of everything.

ZedStyle

ha, can't argue with 20 year old facts, i understand.
don't worry billy bob, i'll put in a good word with the leftys for you so they don't cancel the tractor pulls.

T Bone

I am not the type to dump raw fuel into the atmosphere but I am also not a dogmatic hirsute birkenstock wearing treehugger either.

Let's discuss the root issue here, it is not CAFE standards, it is pollution. Cars even big scary ones like ours are insignificant to jets, industry output. Our cars are a bright target though.

Does anyone honestly think we will solve our pollution problem with everyone drivng the Prius?

Combat commercial transportation and countries like China and India and you might make a dent. Reducing the number of 500 hp cars by 10,000 units will do nothing.

ZedStyle

planes are in service for typically 20 to 30 years. new planes are subject to newer emissions controls, such as the EU clean sky agreement, and the FAA and EU, along with the major manufacturers like Boeing and Airbus, are already collaborating to do what you suggested.
India and China have already adopted Euro emission standards in the last ten years.
nobody is saying drive a prius, and my tank is less fuel efficient than most cars on the road, but i will never stop drivign it.
my point was that these standards have been in effect for decades, so it's on MB to comply with them, that's all. they make a lot of money doing business in this country, they should abide by the rules of it, especially when domestic companies are able to.

rich644

Actually , this is partially what motivated me to buy my E63. I believe the saftey ***** will succeed in outlawing performance cars, and this golden age of horsepower we are enjoying will come to a crashing end.

Think 1975 , 85 mph speedometers and 180hp Corvettes all over again.

ZedStyle

in 1975 the average fuel economy was 12mpg and gas didn't cost $3 for regular. technology has come a long way since then, the japanese get 300+ hp/tq out of a 4-banger. i think we'll be able to make it through the coming apocalypse.

KrisKeeney

Don't be so mean. I thought you liberals loved everyone. Oh that's right: people aren't as important as those rare tazmanian beetle moths.

Calm down. Climb into that WWII, uh, I mean w124 and take a relaxing drive, go zero to 60 in an afternoon, and spew out more gunk than my E55. I am sure there is a special forum for you and your car elsewhere.

ZedStyle

i think mercedes was at fault for not being able to abide by a rule that was instituted 32 years ago and been in effect for 27, and so i'm a liberal? um, okay.
ha! don't hate, hopefully your car will last half as long as mine will. when you become a real mercedes enthusiast, maybe you'll read up on how your car came to be what it is, rather than 'owning' me because you went out and bought a brand new mercedes, which i guess makes you king of the road. the greatest mercedes pre-date even my baby. there's a reason so many owners of newer benzes and amg's still have a w124, w123, etc. at home. but yours is new and shiny, so you win. you are teh rich and i am teh poor
i'll go peruse the w211 'recalls' sticky to see what else has been updated in the last hour, and then go back to my hole. peace!

I Like Soup

Good info here.

Zedstyle is right. Compare a car from 30 years ago and today and there is a significant improvement in gas mileage and emisssions.

I'd like to also add, what if more people in the States weren't so opposed to diesels? MB has plenty of those which would more than likely bring them well over the 27.5mpg barrier. But, the American market doesn't support it. Well, maybe with gas prices and a growing concern over gas mileage we'll come around.

KrisKeeney

No malice intended. Just some fun banter. Thanks and take care.

deaguero

Before you climb back in your hole take a spelling class and earn some credibility on your rants Why are you so jealous of new mercedes owners?