Five Killed In A 2008 BMW M5
01-28-2008, 05:13 PM
#151
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2006 E55 Wagon (RIP), 2019 E63S Wagon (Sold) 2023 AMG GT634S
I've been involved in racing high performance cars for quite a few years now and I know that the single most imporant piece of safety "equipment' is car preparation.
We sold our street car that was in DE's to get a dedicated race car because we knew that the speed we were seeing in DE's were not all that far off from racing speeds - and that we had about 10% of the safety equipment that the racers did. Many accidents on track are not because of door to door or wheel to wheel - they are just driver error - same as can happen in DE.
We go over every nut and bolt, we inspect, clean, replace, repair, examine, etc. Even ON NEW CARS - we go through a checklist. THings like stock brake fluid is simply not designed for extreme use. Tire inflation is critical in high performance - in the mile events tires are routinely inflated above hte sidewall recommendation based on manufacturers on site recommendations. In open road racing events where one averages 150 plus miles an hour - TONS of safety equipment is required.
I wonder what safety precautions are taken at these M5 events and how much time is spent discussing car prep? Or are they not really that "organized"? Is tech inspection required? Is there a tech form / checklist to say that the car has been gone through by a certified mechanic?
I can't believe that people think that just because a car is CAPABLE of these kinds of speeds that it is put together well enough to handle them, and that all the "stock" fluids, brakepads, and tires are of the correct type and in the correct condition.
I know that every time that race car goes out on track - it's prepared to the best of my ability. Most times on a road course, you probably don't reach the speeds that you would on a runway. Why do people think that this almost ALWAYS isn't a disaster waiting to happen?
Unfortunately, laws are not the answer -you simply cannot legislate stupidity. In this case, the father would have bought the car and let son drive it regularly (it WAS registered to him - probably to avoid the HUGE insurance premium) so he was already "getting around" something.
Bad judgment - a common theme here.
We sold our street car that was in DE's to get a dedicated race car because we knew that the speed we were seeing in DE's were not all that far off from racing speeds - and that we had about 10% of the safety equipment that the racers did. Many accidents on track are not because of door to door or wheel to wheel - they are just driver error - same as can happen in DE.
We go over every nut and bolt, we inspect, clean, replace, repair, examine, etc. Even ON NEW CARS - we go through a checklist. THings like stock brake fluid is simply not designed for extreme use. Tire inflation is critical in high performance - in the mile events tires are routinely inflated above hte sidewall recommendation based on manufacturers on site recommendations. In open road racing events where one averages 150 plus miles an hour - TONS of safety equipment is required.
I wonder what safety precautions are taken at these M5 events and how much time is spent discussing car prep? Or are they not really that "organized"? Is tech inspection required? Is there a tech form / checklist to say that the car has been gone through by a certified mechanic?
I can't believe that people think that just because a car is CAPABLE of these kinds of speeds that it is put together well enough to handle them, and that all the "stock" fluids, brakepads, and tires are of the correct type and in the correct condition.
I know that every time that race car goes out on track - it's prepared to the best of my ability. Most times on a road course, you probably don't reach the speeds that you would on a runway. Why do people think that this almost ALWAYS isn't a disaster waiting to happen?
Unfortunately, laws are not the answer -you simply cannot legislate stupidity. In this case, the father would have bought the car and let son drive it regularly (it WAS registered to him - probably to avoid the HUGE insurance premium) so he was already "getting around" something.
Bad judgment - a common theme here.
01-28-2008, 05:15 PM
#152
Super Member
I feel for everyone involved especially the parents. Based on the kids driving record he should have been given a bicycle to get him around town. This is just the beginning of the road for Josh's parents there could be a decade of litigation awaiting them. Such a sad situation for everyone involved. I don't care how responsible you are a kid that age should not have a car with more HP then a honda civic period. Sorry to all the teens on the forum you have a whole life to live. Waiting a few years won't kill you. Pun not intended.
Court records: Driver had received four tickets in past two years
STAR-BANNER
OCALA - Joshua Ammirato, the young man who was behind the wheel of a powerful BMW that sailed off the end of the Greystone Airport runway early Saturday and into a tree, had been ticketed four times in less than two years, court records show.
The last ticket that Ammirato, 18, received was on Jan. 23, just a couple of days before he and four other young men died in the fiery crash. The offense: violation of traffic control device.
Ammirato was first ticketed on March 15, 2006, when law officers said he was driving between 20 and 29 mph over the speed limit. He pleaded guilty and paid a $208.50 fine, the records showed.
In June 2006, Ammirato was stopped again. This time he received a ticket for driving between 1 and 9 mph over the speed limit and for driving with a suspended license. He paid a fine and received a driving curfew, the court records showed.
Florida Highway Patrol investigators believe Ammirato's BMW M5 was traveling at a high rate of speed down the airport runway sometime after 3:30 a.m. Saturday when it went off the end and flew some 200 feet into a tree, where it split in two on impact.
Ammirato died, along with Jacon James Casey, 19; James Devon Hime, 19; Dustin J. Dawe, 19; and Isaac Rubin 20.
Stay tuned to ocala.com for more details throughout the day.
Court records: Driver had received four tickets in past two years
STAR-BANNER
OCALA - Joshua Ammirato, the young man who was behind the wheel of a powerful BMW that sailed off the end of the Greystone Airport runway early Saturday and into a tree, had been ticketed four times in less than two years, court records show.
The last ticket that Ammirato, 18, received was on Jan. 23, just a couple of days before he and four other young men died in the fiery crash. The offense: violation of traffic control device.
Ammirato was first ticketed on March 15, 2006, when law officers said he was driving between 20 and 29 mph over the speed limit. He pleaded guilty and paid a $208.50 fine, the records showed.
In June 2006, Ammirato was stopped again. This time he received a ticket for driving between 1 and 9 mph over the speed limit and for driving with a suspended license. He paid a fine and received a driving curfew, the court records showed.
Florida Highway Patrol investigators believe Ammirato's BMW M5 was traveling at a high rate of speed down the airport runway sometime after 3:30 a.m. Saturday when it went off the end and flew some 200 feet into a tree, where it split in two on impact.
Ammirato died, along with Jacon James Casey, 19; James Devon Hime, 19; Dustin J. Dawe, 19; and Isaac Rubin 20.
Stay tuned to ocala.com for more details throughout the day.
01-28-2008, 05:59 PM
#153
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2005 E55 Black / Black Every available option except Sat radio
Not taken as a slam or anything. Your not personally attacking me and i understand what you're saying, but im not trying to say my driving skills are amazing thats why i should have the car i do. I have my head screwed on pretty straight and usually think about things that could have potentially lethal consquences before i do them. I also completely agree that everyone should go through a driving school, would make our roads much much safer.
.The AMG and BMW M series are designed for high-end experienced drivers, experience comes with time. I have people come up to me all the time and say man what a nice car that is, how does it drive? I say it drives only as good as the driver and the experience behind them.
01-28-2008, 09:45 PM
#155
God bless their families.
Their goal was likely to hit the rev limiter. Doing a 0-155 mph (rev limit) - 0 mph on a 1.5 mile track at a weight of 5000 lbs and 500hp is not possible. Heck you could try to do a 0-top speed to 0 in any car and not make it with only 1.5 miles of road. The SLR's traps 181mph at 1 mile and would never have a chance to get up to 200 mph and stop in time. What a terrible shame this happened.
Has anyone of this forum every broke constantly from a triple digit speed to 0? Its nearly impossible to judge the distance required as no one ever does this.
RIP
Their goal was likely to hit the rev limiter. Doing a 0-155 mph (rev limit) - 0 mph on a 1.5 mile track at a weight of 5000 lbs and 500hp is not possible. Heck you could try to do a 0-top speed to 0 in any car and not make it with only 1.5 miles of road. The SLR's traps 181mph at 1 mile and would never have a chance to get up to 200 mph and stop in time. What a terrible shame this happened.
Has anyone of this forum every broke constantly from a triple digit speed to 0? Its nearly impossible to judge the distance required as no one ever does this.
RIP
Last edited by e55 baller; 01-28-2008 at 09:48 PM.
01-28-2008, 09:54 PM
#156
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God bless their families.
Their goal was likely to hit the rev limiter. Doing a 0-155 mph (rev limit) - 0 mph on a 1.5 mile track at a weight of 5000 lbs and 500hp is not possible. Heck you could try to do a 0-top speed to 0 in any car and not make it with only 1.5 miles of road. The SLR's traps 181mph at 1 mile and would never have a chance to get up to 200 mph and stop in time. What a terrible shame this happened.
Has anyone of this forum every broke constantly from a triple digit speed to 0? Its nearly impossible to judge the distance required as no one ever does this.
Their goal was likely to hit the rev limiter. Doing a 0-155 mph (rev limit) - 0 mph on a 1.5 mile track at a weight of 5000 lbs and 500hp is not possible. Heck you could try to do a 0-top speed to 0 in any car and not make it with only 1.5 miles of road. The SLR's traps 181mph at 1 mile and would never have a chance to get up to 200 mph and stop in time. What a terrible shame this happened.
Has anyone of this forum every broke constantly from a triple digit speed to 0? Its nearly impossible to judge the distance required as no one ever does this.
01-28-2008, 10:07 PM
#157
I think by rev limiter you mean electronic limiter. As posted earlier, the M5 hits this electronic nanny at 170mph (not 155mph) despite BMW's claims. It hits it like a train in 6th with a lot of revs left and of course 7th. This is fact not speculation and the drag-limited 205mph top speed feels only a matter of having enough space (and an ECU reset, of course).
I would pass on the opportunity to run at an 1.5 mile airport in the daylight unless I knew exactly when to break with cones laid out. The poor kids had no chance to survive.
01-28-2008, 10:18 PM
#158
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I did some searching, and found that in this Autocar comparison test, the M5 took 15.2 seconds to go from 0-100 mph-0. Since it takes just under 10 seconds to get from 0-100, this means that it took five full seconds to get it stopped from this speed.
With one person on board.
Imagine how long it would take it to come to a stop from 160-170 with five persons on board!
In this test from Road & Track, a stock 2008 Viper, which has about the same 0-150 time as an M5 (with driver only onboard), took a full mile to reach 159 mph.
So if these guys really did hit get to the vehicle's top speed 170, or close to it, on that 1.5 mile-long airstrip, it would certainly have taken them well over a mile to get there. Meaning that they had no absolutely no prayer of getting that vehicle stopped in time if the brakes were functioning perfectly, let alone if they were faded from several slower trial runs.
Update: I did some more checking and found this chart illustrating the distances it took a Volvo to stop from 140 mph (including reaction time of an average person, which probably was not the case here): 272 meters, or nearly 900 ft.
And before anyone says "Oh, but this was a Volvo", I checked at Car & Driver's Supercar Challenge, sedan class, and their sedans were all in the 700 ft range braking from 150 mph, which is 213 meters (add the 65m reaction time and you're up at 278). So even in the highest performance sedans (and the C&D cars were NOT stock, they were tuner-modded), it'll take about 900' to get stopped from this speed.
Think about this next time you are tempted to do a high speed run, particularly if you'll be cresting a hill, or a partially obstructed corner, etc....that's an awful long distance, and you won't be able to stop in time to prevent a catastrophe.
Back to the braking data I found: they also have a graphic showing that assuming reaction time chews up the first 35m or so followed by hard braking, if you start from 140 mph, after 100m (roughly a football field) total (35m reaction + 65m of braking), the vehicle would still be travelling at 100 mph.
And I seriously doubt that those headlights would illuminate more than 100m, if that. These guys were goners from the get-go. Without a clearly marked braking zone, this was suicide.
Tragic.
With one person on board.
Imagine how long it would take it to come to a stop from 160-170 with five persons on board!
In this test from Road & Track, a stock 2008 Viper, which has about the same 0-150 time as an M5 (with driver only onboard), took a full mile to reach 159 mph.
So if these guys really did hit get to the vehicle's top speed 170, or close to it, on that 1.5 mile-long airstrip, it would certainly have taken them well over a mile to get there. Meaning that they had no absolutely no prayer of getting that vehicle stopped in time if the brakes were functioning perfectly, let alone if they were faded from several slower trial runs.
Update: I did some more checking and found this chart illustrating the distances it took a Volvo to stop from 140 mph (including reaction time of an average person, which probably was not the case here): 272 meters, or nearly 900 ft.
And before anyone says "Oh, but this was a Volvo", I checked at Car & Driver's Supercar Challenge, sedan class, and their sedans were all in the 700 ft range braking from 150 mph, which is 213 meters (add the 65m reaction time and you're up at 278). So even in the highest performance sedans (and the C&D cars were NOT stock, they were tuner-modded), it'll take about 900' to get stopped from this speed.
Think about this next time you are tempted to do a high speed run, particularly if you'll be cresting a hill, or a partially obstructed corner, etc....that's an awful long distance, and you won't be able to stop in time to prevent a catastrophe.
Back to the braking data I found: they also have a graphic showing that assuming reaction time chews up the first 35m or so followed by hard braking, if you start from 140 mph, after 100m (roughly a football field) total (35m reaction + 65m of braking), the vehicle would still be travelling at 100 mph.
And I seriously doubt that those headlights would illuminate more than 100m, if that. These guys were goners from the get-go. Without a clearly marked braking zone, this was suicide.
Tragic.
Last edited by Improviz; 01-29-2008 at 12:26 AM.
01-28-2008, 10:25 PM
#159
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yeah thats what I meant. 0-170-0 in 1.5 miles in the dark...with 5 people and maybe alcohol...
I would pass on the opportunity to run at an 1.5 mile airport in the daylight unless I knew exactly when to break with cones laid out. The poor kids had no chance to survive.
I would pass on the opportunity to run at an 1.5 mile airport in the daylight unless I knew exactly when to break with cones laid out. The poor kids had no chance to survive.
Improviz- Wow, taking 5.5 seconds to stop exactly 4000lbs from 100mph with 14.7inch discs makes me even more nervous when trashy old pickup trucks hurtle past on the fwy doing the ton.
01-29-2008, 12:08 AM
#160
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Yeah, and it gets even worse; check out the updates I made, did some more investigation of braking distances...
01-29-2008, 03:20 AM
#161
I am reading through this and it reminds me of a few things that have gone through my mind since I got my E63 about how I make decisions now, at 46, vs when I was 30. There is a difference.
As for restricting people who are younger from buying a car like the M5, E55, or E63 I would have to say that a law restricting this is certainly NOT un-Constitutional. We do it on cigarretes, alcohol, and other things. And certainly the there is no constitutional right to a drivers license. I think that besides driving these high power German cars, maybe having the person driving be able to pass a German drivers test would keep more people alive.
My sympathy to the families.
As for restricting people who are younger from buying a car like the M5, E55, or E63 I would have to say that a law restricting this is certainly NOT un-Constitutional. We do it on cigarretes, alcohol, and other things. And certainly the there is no constitutional right to a drivers license. I think that besides driving these high power German cars, maybe having the person driving be able to pass a German drivers test would keep more people alive.
My sympathy to the families.
when was the last time u see such cars bought by young people? all of them belong to the dads... is it better to restrict people who have young kids to buy such cars?? people who have the ability to afford such cars themselves should be more mature and less likely to do such reckless crazy act ..
i can imagine the hate of the 4 innocent victims' parents towards the m5 owner.... he's just like the pilot who lets his kid hanging out at the pilot room and then crash the whole plane....
all just because the owner let his son show off his m5...
01-29-2008, 10:05 AM
#162
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junk
this is why when my kids come of age they are getting 59 caddys. 8 miles to the gallon, 2 barrel carb and 4 tons. the bigger shame is this kids actions took 4 more with him.
01-29-2008, 11:00 AM
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One of my partners just bought his 16 Y.O. a Volkswagon R32. I showed him the news clip. Now he wants to know if he can get a governor for it. If the kids have that much power available, they will use it at some point and time.
01-29-2008, 11:10 AM
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I wish I had pictures of the wreck Sunny55 and I happened upon one night on the way home from NYC. We were heading westbound at 4AM and saw the most horrific wreck we'd ever witnessed. A VW Golf heading eastbound had lost control at an extremely high speed, mashed into the center median and actually flipped over it, leaving most of the drivetrain behind. The wreckage came to rest in the middle of the westbound side and the driver/passengers were NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. The roof was ripped off, it was as if the car had been thrown into a canopener. The only recognisable parts were a single wheel and the brand new (and empty) driver and passenger's seats. We actually got out and looked because we were the first people on the scene. They were obviously thrown from the wreckage, not wearing their seatbelts.
01-29-2008, 11:29 AM
#165
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I did some searching, and found that in this Autocar comparison test, the M5 took 15.2 seconds to go from 0-100 mph-0. Since it takes just under 10 seconds to get from 0-100, this means that it took five full seconds to get it stopped from this speed.
With one person on board.
Imagine how long it would take it to come to a stop from 160-170 with five persons on board!
In this test from Road & Track, a stock 2008 Viper, which has about the same 0-150 time as an M5 (with driver only onboard), took a full mile to reach 159 mph.
So if these guys really did hit get to the vehicle's top speed 170, or close to it, on that 1.5 mile-long airstrip, it would certainly have taken them well over a mile to get there. Meaning that they had no absolutely no prayer of getting that vehicle stopped in time if the brakes were functioning perfectly, let alone if they were faded from several slower trial runs.
Update: I did some more checking and found this chart illustrating the distances it took a Volvo to stop from 140 mph (including reaction time of an average person, which probably was not the case here): 272 meters, or nearly 900 ft.
And before anyone says "Oh, but this was a Volvo", I checked at Car & Driver's Supercar Challenge, sedan class, and their sedans were all in the 700 ft range braking from 150 mph, which is 213 meters (add the 65m reaction time and you're up at 278). So even in the highest performance sedans (and the C&D cars were NOT stock, they were tuner-modded), it'll take about 900' to get stopped from this speed.
Think about this next time you are tempted to do a high speed run, particularly if you'll be cresting a hill, or a partially obstructed corner, etc....that's an awful long distance, and you won't be able to stop in time to prevent a catastrophe.
Back to the braking data I found: they also have a graphic showing that assuming reaction time chews up the first 35m or so followed by hard braking, if you start from 140 mph, after 100m (roughly a football field) total (35m reaction + 65m of braking), the vehicle would still be travelling at 100 mph.
And I seriously doubt that those headlights would illuminate more than 100m, if that. These guys were goners from the get-go. Without a clearly marked braking zone, this was suicide.
Tragic.
With one person on board.
Imagine how long it would take it to come to a stop from 160-170 with five persons on board!
In this test from Road & Track, a stock 2008 Viper, which has about the same 0-150 time as an M5 (with driver only onboard), took a full mile to reach 159 mph.
So if these guys really did hit get to the vehicle's top speed 170, or close to it, on that 1.5 mile-long airstrip, it would certainly have taken them well over a mile to get there. Meaning that they had no absolutely no prayer of getting that vehicle stopped in time if the brakes were functioning perfectly, let alone if they were faded from several slower trial runs.
Update: I did some more checking and found this chart illustrating the distances it took a Volvo to stop from 140 mph (including reaction time of an average person, which probably was not the case here): 272 meters, or nearly 900 ft.
And before anyone says "Oh, but this was a Volvo", I checked at Car & Driver's Supercar Challenge, sedan class, and their sedans were all in the 700 ft range braking from 150 mph, which is 213 meters (add the 65m reaction time and you're up at 278). So even in the highest performance sedans (and the C&D cars were NOT stock, they were tuner-modded), it'll take about 900' to get stopped from this speed.
Think about this next time you are tempted to do a high speed run, particularly if you'll be cresting a hill, or a partially obstructed corner, etc....that's an awful long distance, and you won't be able to stop in time to prevent a catastrophe.
Back to the braking data I found: they also have a graphic showing that assuming reaction time chews up the first 35m or so followed by hard braking, if you start from 140 mph, after 100m (roughly a football field) total (35m reaction + 65m of braking), the vehicle would still be travelling at 100 mph.
And I seriously doubt that those headlights would illuminate more than 100m, if that. These guys were goners from the get-go. Without a clearly marked braking zone, this was suicide.
Tragic.
01-29-2008, 01:20 PM
#166
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Don't have a Mercedes right now...
Horrible story.
As a father/son project I helped my then 16 yr old son build a 400 HP Camaro. It was a great experiance for both of us. Before I allowed him to drive it I made him go to three different driving schools. Bondurant twice and Skip Barber once. It made all the difference in the world. He learned respect and car control skills that I attribute to his yet being envolved in an accident and he's now 23.
Everyone should be REQUIRED to go to some form of driving school before getting a license.
As a father/son project I helped my then 16 yr old son build a 400 HP Camaro. It was a great experiance for both of us. Before I allowed him to drive it I made him go to three different driving schools. Bondurant twice and Skip Barber once. It made all the difference in the world. He learned respect and car control skills that I attribute to his yet being envolved in an accident and he's now 23.
Everyone should be REQUIRED to go to some form of driving school before getting a license.
01-29-2008, 01:28 PM
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Don't have a Mercedes right now...
Respectfully, anyone under 25 that has a 500HP car to drive is insane to start with. When you enter the army, you get basically training on how to use a weapon. If you decide to join the armory division and use larger weapons, you get more training, if you decide to drive the tank you get more training. To think that you can get a Drivers license and then get to drive one of the most powerful vehicles available on a entry level certificate is .
The AMG and BMW M series are designed for high-end experienced drivers, experience comes with time. I have people come up to me all the time and say man what a nice car that is, how does it drive? I say it drives only as good as the driver and the experience behind them.
.The AMG and BMW M series are designed for high-end experienced drivers, experience comes with time. I have people come up to me all the time and say man what a nice car that is, how does it drive? I say it drives only as good as the driver and the experience behind them.
01-29-2008, 02:15 PM
#168
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2004 E55 AMG
it's unfortunate that the guy's parent had to learn the hard way. they failed in their duty to use common sense and not their child is gone and they may be face many law suits. When I was selling my evo I had a kid 17 years old wanting to buy my car from me with all of the modifications. I asked him does your parents know how fast this car really is? he said no. I told him that I would have to take his parents for a test drive(100 oct and 28 PSI) and then have this parents sign a release so they can't sue me if he were to kill himself in the car. It was a kind way for me to tell the guy no. he never called again.
While we all want our kids to have more that we had, the lesson of responsibility has to be well learned and trust well earned.
While we all want our kids to have more that we had, the lesson of responsibility has to be well learned and trust well earned.
01-29-2008, 03:15 PM
#169
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Used to drive E55
It is definitely sad! However, when I was in H.S. I had a 69 Charger and bought it with my own money. Sure I raced. But usually where it was safe and never on an air strip at night and drinking and with more than myself in the car. I think it was just poor judgement. I don't have a problem with kid have alot of HP under the hood. I know I did!!
01-29-2008, 03:22 PM
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'03 E55
01-29-2008, 03:43 PM
#171
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Lawyers chime in!!
18-20yo = adult, right?
Can parents be liable for their adult son's actions? I assume they let this young man borrow the car and did not serve these guys alcohol before the accident.
What kind of lawsuit can you bring against his parents?
18-20yo = adult, right?
Can parents be liable for their adult son's actions? I assume they let this young man borrow the car and did not serve these guys alcohol before the accident.
What kind of lawsuit can you bring against his parents?
01-29-2008, 03:51 PM
#172
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2007 SL550 - Aegean Blue; 2008 E63 Wagon - Iridium Silver
Another interesting angle on this tragedy was posted on the Ocala forum. The public driving records of the driver and his passengers:
At: Ocala.com forums
R Arcane
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Posted 27 January 2008 15:32 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dhogan614:
They were breaking the law-trespassing and speeding, at the very least.
To attempt to portray them as choirboys who made just one bad choice is disingenuous. All one needs do is to check the openly available court records for Marion County and you'll see this was not an isolated incident with these young men--far from it.
Josh Ammirato: 4 tickets in 2 years (one ticket 4 days ago)
James Hime: 4 tickets, including a criminal traffic misdemeanor.
Dustin Dawe: 2 tickets
Isaac Rubin: 7 tickets, one criminal traffic misdemeanor 2 weeks ago, driving while license revoked.
Check http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/ under case search.
At: Ocala.com forums
R Arcane
Casual Contributor
Posted 27 January 2008 15:32 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dhogan614:
They were breaking the law-trespassing and speeding, at the very least.
To attempt to portray them as choirboys who made just one bad choice is disingenuous. All one needs do is to check the openly available court records for Marion County and you'll see this was not an isolated incident with these young men--far from it.
Josh Ammirato: 4 tickets in 2 years (one ticket 4 days ago)
James Hime: 4 tickets, including a criminal traffic misdemeanor.
Dustin Dawe: 2 tickets
Isaac Rubin: 7 tickets, one criminal traffic misdemeanor 2 weeks ago, driving while license revoked.
Check http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/ under case search.
01-29-2008, 03:56 PM
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Used to drive E55
because of God's grace not because I am lucky.
01-29-2008, 04:03 PM
#174
MBWorld Fanatic!
Would you guys view this as any different if the car was an M5 or a 528i? I'm just curious if this would be treated differently by these forum members if the car only had 250hp, yet was still traveling at 140+-mph.
I never drove any different when I had access to a CLK500 and an SL55 at 16 years old. I wouldn't go any faster in the 500hp SL than the 300hp CLK. I may have gotten there quicker with the SL but thats it. Top speed and driving habits were all the same no matter which car I was in.
I have a friend with a '97 Maxima which is slow as hell, yet he cruises highways above 130mph. Yes, the car can influence the driver to go faster...but it is really up to the driver's maturity level and common sense.
I never drove any different when I had access to a CLK500 and an SL55 at 16 years old. I wouldn't go any faster in the 500hp SL than the 300hp CLK. I may have gotten there quicker with the SL but thats it. Top speed and driving habits were all the same no matter which car I was in.
I have a friend with a '97 Maxima which is slow as hell, yet he cruises highways above 130mph. Yes, the car can influence the driver to go faster...but it is really up to the driver's maturity level and common sense.
01-29-2008, 04:03 PM
#175
MBWorld Fanatic!
Another interesting angle on this tragedy was posted on the Ocala forum. The public driving records of the driver and his passengers:
At: Ocala.com forums
R Arcane
Casual Contributor
Posted 27 January 2008 15:32 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dhogan614:
They were breaking the law-trespassing and speeding, at the very least.
To attempt to portray them as choirboys who made just one bad choice is disingenuous. All one needs do is to check the openly available court records for Marion County and you'll see this was not an isolated incident with these young men--far from it.
Josh Ammirato: 4 tickets in 2 years (one ticket 4 days ago)
James Hime: 4 tickets, including a criminal traffic misdemeanor.
Dustin Dawe: 2 tickets
Isaac Rubin: 7 tickets, one criminal traffic misdemeanor 2 weeks ago, driving while license revoked.
Check http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/ under case search.
At: Ocala.com forums
R Arcane
Casual Contributor
Posted 27 January 2008 15:32 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dhogan614:
They were breaking the law-trespassing and speeding, at the very least.
To attempt to portray them as choirboys who made just one bad choice is disingenuous. All one needs do is to check the openly available court records for Marion County and you'll see this was not an isolated incident with these young men--far from it.
Josh Ammirato: 4 tickets in 2 years (one ticket 4 days ago)
James Hime: 4 tickets, including a criminal traffic misdemeanor.
Dustin Dawe: 2 tickets
Isaac Rubin: 7 tickets, one criminal traffic misdemeanor 2 weeks ago, driving while license revoked.
Check http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/ under case search.
Not having some control over your kids just begs for more of these stories to keep popping up. The biggest thing my parents taught me was the meaning of consequences and these kids didn't seem to have learned this based on their traffic record. Our society's parents seem to not grasp that they need to parent and not be friends...grounding your kids or taking their driving privileges away and the subsequent "I hate you stares from your kids" won't last long, but death is permanent.
