NGS_E55

Following up on the recent ASP/ECU tune thread, I was wondering actual ratio of pulley:tune.

hamann69

My car lost power after I put on the asp pulley so ECU is a must.

supre55

Without a tune you run the risk of thes tock ECU seeing the extra boost and cutting it off as it feels something is "wrong", or an exaggeration of the sometimes neck breaking s/c engagement whiplash at low rpm/low throttle position. Tuning is a must of you want to take advantage of bolt on mods... the whole 1+1=3 concept

MB_Forever

+1

Shawn also lost power after he added the ASP pulley without a tune. We dynoed the car 3 times on 2 different dynos on 2 different days, and also checked for IC pump failures but there wasn't any.

Compliment the pulley with an ECU tune

Marcus Frost

I am going to be doing a writeup soon with my dyno plots. I documented my car at three points since dropping it off for Stage 1 - stock, pulley+cooling, and pulley+cooling+ecu. I picked up significant torque but gained 0 peak HP with pulley+cooling upgrade without ECU. I have a broader curve and power definitely comes on sooner, but your peak winds up being the same. Software is a must.

-m

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

+1

You absolutely cannot skimp on the ECU tuning, and make sure it's done in conjunction with a number of solid dyno pulls.

Marcus Frost

When I do my writeup I am hoping it'll put that idea to rest. It seems tempting, but the reality is it's not worth it.

blueknight

Man I must be one of the few, as I have an Evotech pulley without ECU tune and there is such a huge difference in power from a start. I also added an HE to help the heat soak issue. Now I have nothing to back it up as far as a dyno but I know my car and there is definitely a huge difference before and after. I am holding of on a tune until I add a TB and headers.

Fast55

I'm running a Kleemann pulley. I gained a lot of torque, but not much HP before the tune. It might be that the ASP pulley makes too much boost to go without a tune?

Marcus Frost

blue,

This is not unique, my dyno plot shows that without software you still gain big TQ especially at low RPM, however torque takes a nose drive as RPM climbs, and you are essentially left with 0 gain in peak hp. In addition, you hit your peak HP sooner still, so there will definitely be a feeling of gained power. In the end though, you still aren't really gaining any peak HP, and your TQ at high RPM also is pretty much the same. The ECU is responsible for this because I actually took a boost reading in all my dynos and there's clearly an increase across the board, so there's really no other way to explain it other than the ECU saying "I don't think so" to the added boost and pulling back timing/adding fuel...

-m

MRAMG1

Hey Marcus Frost

Let me start by saying that I agree with you that you get MORE with a tune. Now with that being said, PEAK numbers don't tell the entire story. What you are looking for is the area under the graph. Even if you pick up NOTHING at the top end, say 500HP before and after pulley as your top number, but pick up 10-20 HP or torque on the graph from say 2000-5500 rpm, you are still WAY ahead of the game. Peak numbers are simple bragging rights IMHO. I'll take a nice flat 20 increase across the board ANYDAY over a simple 30 gain at the peak.
I have played MANY engine games on a program called DYNO 2000 from Mr Gasket, and after all was siad and done, my stock cam in my 91 Whippled stang made MORE power under the curve than ANY aftermarket cam did. However the after market cam would have given me a 80 HP gain at 6000rpm.
This engined dynoed at 505 HP by the way, running 10 pounds of boost through some SERIOUS heads, with the stock cam.

What I consider REAL world information is taking your dyno numbers at 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, and 6000 and divide them by 8. THIS is the number that you want to be largest posiable.

Oh well, sorry for being off topic, just couldn't resist

See yeah

Marcus Frost

MRAMG1,

Thanks for you post, I actually really enjoy more advanced technical discussions on the forums.

I'm totally on board with you, and the reason I kept mentioning that there was more power in certain areas is because I didn't want to say that no power was gained. Depending on how your average guy will describe a dyno, if #1 says PEAK POWER 400rwhp and #2 says PEAK POWER 400rwhp, to most people it's not a gain. I don't look at it like that, I look at it like you.

In this particular situation, what's important to note is that while you do gain more HP under the curve, our dynos have a notorious reputation of taking free-falls at higher RPM, and the pulley aggravates this. What I was really trying to communicate is that if you go through the trouble of doing a pulley + cooling, the car is going to choke you off from the REAL gains you should be getting with 3psi over stock, and you're really only getting a small portion of the total benefit because the stock ECU is going to strangle off power as RPM increases. There are some gains without ECU, but the truth is to realize the full potential you need to have a tune that allows the car to make the power.

The bottom line is, you can have your cake (more area under the curve) and eat it too (more peak power) with the full Stage 1 package. That's what I'm trying to say. Having the ECU does not sacrifice any area under the curve, it leaves that in place AND gives you the peak #s people like to brag about...

Take care,

-m

phatmitzu

Exactly what had happened to me. ECU is a must.

MRAMG1

+1

hamann69

My car picked up 50rwtq when I added the asp pulley to my car without ECU however I lost 20rwhp. Some of this loss might be due to heatsoak because I didnt have my larger heat exchanger on at the time. All you guys are feeling is the torque if you dont have the ECU. Im tempted to put my car on the dyno again with the h/e but its not worth the money to me, the car dosent feel any faster anyway. Once I get a ECU ill get it back on the dyno.

TopGun32

I agree its a must.. but the price seems a bit high for me.

I'm more convinced I need one.. but the majority of my power comes under 4k.

I hardly go over 4.5k.. for the following reasons:

1) the car next to me is about 4 cars back now
2) MPG
3) I hardly find a place to open her up without risking going to jail.
4) MPG

I want to have my extra 30WHP from 4k to 6k... but I have lived without it.

But I do have more usable torque.

IF POWERCHIP/VRP would have a ECU tune sale at around $800 and $1k with Dyno. I'll send them my Visa check card today.

My understanding is that ECU is $1200 plust $400 extra for Dyno's for before and after.

If I had a E63/C63 I would not have a problem paying that.. but not for a discontinued E55.

You need to pay to Play.. but there are more important things I can do with $1600. (New tires for my C32 or E55, fix my C32 seat control modules, add the kompressor pulley to my C32 made by Code3.. ect.

NGS_E55

I have issues with cost too. Not that we cant afford it, my car is a lease and at least I can resell my bolt-on mods to recoup some investment. Who is the low-price leader that can properly tune?

MRAMG1

One word LET

See yeah

hamann69

Does anyone have this LET ecu?

NGS_E55

I'm hoping several of us will have LET ECU soon. I just got off the phone with Eric @ LET and he has agreed to setup an ECU group-buy for us. I will let him post the details, but it was along the lines of $600+1way shipping(they pay return) if we get 5+ units. I'm #1

hamann69

I would be interested in doing this however can you ask him if he has any dyno numbers from a E55 with there ECU and some kind of aftermarket pulley.

jangy

I'd only go with a smaller pulley without a tune. If you go big, you may as well take advantage of the tune.

Regardless, the day will come when that TQ limiter is going to be in your way. Is it a feature they added to save the trannys? I think so, but I expect that. The released power is AMAZING.

phatmitzu

What program does LET use?
$600 is CHEAP no question about that, but I'd want to see some dyno/track proves before jumping on the wagon tho.

Don't you?

hamann69

If they can post some dynos with decent power im in.

joshd

+1 on seeing any info at all on the LET tune ... they have nothing on the website and have posted nothing here that I've seen.