OT - Anyone know of a C6 Z06 vs E55 on 5N?
#276
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2015 S212
Another thing nobody is even talking about is the powerband used on an 80 to 150 sprint. All that gets yapped about is the peak numbers and hypo situations. Again, not saying that would bump me over a Z06 but it may help over the other "modded" E55s that have shown 500hp.
#278
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Verified 60-130 times using Vbox GPS
7.48 - Acicchelli / Renntech SL65 AMG
7.86 - Divexxtreme / Stock C6 Z06 / 2-shifts <he can drive
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#279
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oy vey Jangy. Like I said I have plenty of data for you.
for a matter of perspective on the day that Jamie ran a 10.83 @ 130 i ran a 10.99 @ 125 same day same track
Verified 60-130 times using Vbox GPS
7.48 - Acicchelli / Renntech SL65 AMG
7.86 - Divexxtreme / Stock C6 Z06 / 2-shifts <he can drive![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Verified 60-130 times using Vbox GPS
7.48 - Acicchelli / Renntech SL65 AMG
7.86 - Divexxtreme / Stock C6 Z06 / 2-shifts <he can drive
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Thanks for the data Jay, good stuff. Lots of the 6speedonline dudes use the 60-130 measurements.
#280
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Id like to ammend my post above by saying that there is a lot of talk about HP in this thread but no talk about TQ. Our cars are pigs, period. The heavier our cars the more important that TQ figure becomes. Our cars would be pretty slow if we made about 100-200lbs feet less like the rest of the "normal" performance vehicles out there. Sure my car makes 530+ rwhp big deal, but it makes 710+ rwtq and thats what makes it get down the track. just my .02
Last edited by JAYCL600; 05-22-2008 at 04:35 PM.
#281
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2015 S212
oy vey Jangy. Like I said I have plenty of data for you.
for a matter of perspective on the day that Jamie ran a 10.83 @ 130 i ran a 10.99 @ 125 same day same track
Verified 60-130 times using Vbox GPS
7.48 - Acicchelli / Renntech SL65 AMG
7.86 - Divexxtreme / Stock C6 Z06 / 2-shifts <he can drive![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Verified 60-130 times using Vbox GPS
7.48 - Acicchelli / Renntech SL65 AMG
7.86 - Divexxtreme / Stock C6 Z06 / 2-shifts <he can drive
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Not sure exactly what you are telling me, though.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
#282
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V12-Biturbo
Too funny Jangster
I've got a novel idea?? I live on planet earth & know I can't run anywhere near a C6 Z06 in my stock SL600, how bout' you & I meet up for a few friendly runs![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
I'm pretty certain you should beat me, but I'm bettin not by much (going by your rwhp of 503 at time you ran the C6 wide body Z06 imposter lol
) If you've increased your mod arsenal say to 530-550 rwhp I humbly retract "but I'm bettin not by much" ![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'll deff pull out my stock air filters for a few more ponies, 600ft lbs should keep me near you on frwy roll.
If anything it's always fun to race a faster car INMYOP
PS...None of this "Meet me @ 8am in O.C. on Sat morning krap" you know I live in SB, so we both drive half-way & meet in LA.![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I've looked up my Curb weight, it's very close to your 211 E55 4200-4300 lb..... My 2005 SL600 weighs 4429 lbs Soaking Wet... I'll pull out my spare tire too, so minus 60 lbs = 4369lbs !!
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
I'm pretty certain you should beat me, but I'm bettin not by much (going by your rwhp of 503 at time you ran the C6 wide body Z06 imposter lol
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'll deff pull out my stock air filters for a few more ponies, 600ft lbs should keep me near you on frwy roll.
If anything it's always fun to race a faster car INMYOP
PS...None of this "Meet me @ 8am in O.C. on Sat morning krap" you know I live in SB, so we both drive half-way & meet in LA.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I've looked up my Curb weight, it's very close to your 211 E55 4200-4300 lb..... My 2005 SL600 weighs 4429 lbs Soaking Wet... I'll pull out my spare tire too, so minus 60 lbs = 4369lbs !!
![devil](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif)
Last edited by Thericker; 05-23-2008 at 02:42 AM.
#283
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V12-Biturbo
Id like to ammend my post above by saying that there is a lot of talk about HP in this thread but no talk about TQ. Our cars are pigs, period. The heavier our cars the more important that TQ figure becomes. Our cars would be pretty slow if we made about 100-200lbs feet less like the rest of the "normal" performance vehicles out there. Sure my car makes 530+ rwhp big deal, but it makes 710+ rwtq and thats what makes it get down the track. just my .02
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Are you forgetting about the most important # on the 65-AMG in question? What about the HUGE torque in the tuned CL65 around 900 ft lb's![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
It's got about 300-400 more torque than your E55...
Your 500rwhp is great don't get me wrong, but what about the torque?![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
No flamage bro just questioning is all![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
It's got about 300-400 more torque than your E55...
Your 500rwhp is great don't get me wrong, but what about the torque?
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
No flamage bro just questioning is all
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#284
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
First you said they were too hypothetical, but many know that they're not only possible, but in fact probable. So now them to being speculative, but so as most of our discussion here. These are conditions that do happen in a race.
My dear friend, this is not how the game works: YOU are the one making the claim, that magazines publish fraudulent data. It is not MY responsibility to DISPROVE your claim, it is YOUR responsibility to PROVE your claim. And I see by reading the rest of this point that you're back to (surprise) making more hypothetical arguments, so let me be clear: until or unless you produce a shred of evidence that the publications Car & Driver and Road & Track, which are the publications I cited, have published fraudulent test data favoring one manufacturer over another, this matter is, as far as I am concerned, closed for discussion. You can raise it, but I'm not gonna waste time arguing it.
Yes we are.....
No problem.
Maybe to you in your mind it was, but not to me or to what I was talking about.
I was speaking for myself and a couple of friends
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So you think these are very uncommon and un-realistic considerations in a real world race?
Fair for the E55, you mean, which once again shows your bias. The point is that European M5s and M6s DO come w/LC, and over there, they ARE as fast as E55s from any speed. The fact that BMW stripped them of that advantage here, and that the E55's greater low down torque allows it to get a better launch, does not eliminate the FACT that in ROLL-ON races, the E55 does NOT pull the M5. I PERSONALLY WITNESSED ROLL-ON RACES of this sort, and NOT ONE E55 won ONE race.
I'm saying that from where I sit, I have no more, nor less, reason to give you, vadim, jangy, or anyone else here any more, or less, credibility than I give to those guys. If you feel otherwise, then please: don't believe them. But you have in no way, shape, or form shown them to be untrustworthy, unreliable, or inaccurate.
So you believe in superman?
What you mean is that in your mind, they are "unverified", because you're trying to eliminate any and all data which doesn't support jangy's car being faster....but unfortunately, you are not The Lord God of what are, and are not, acceptable facts. Nor are you the Iron Standard of Proof wrt the validity of jangy's dyno, nor with any other dyno.
You seem to offer your own "interpretations" of opinions and/or facts.
And if I did, you'd simply split more hairs and try to cast aspersions on it as well, because objectivity is clearly not your intention here. Your intention is to label as "invalid" any and all data that doesn't support jangy's car being the winner, which is fine, but you haven't produced anything more than sophistry to support it, so on points you lose.
You haven't brought facts either. You looked up some data online and presented it as ultimate truth and is asking anyone who questions its validity to prove it themselves.
#285
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
No, I didn't, and please: a spare tire weighs a whopping 60 pounds, which doesn't even add up to 0.1 in a 1/4 mile race, so can you can the hair-splitting? His car is an '06, '06's came with spares, so your original point, that some 03's didn't, is not relevant to the weight of his car, which is the topic of discussion.
Side note: please correct your quotes. In this post, you accidentally quoted me as Jangy
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Originally Posted by jangy
When you were comparing data from all the other E55s, I stated that you should be careful because some E55s did NOT come with a spare, then you said who said that, and I replied member here on the board. Actually, I think some 2004 E55s also did not come with spare. I don't re-call Shawn's car with one, but I'll double check. ![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Last edited by MB_Forever; 05-23-2008 at 11:24 AM.
#286
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V12-Biturbo
Bro, I owned a nicely modded C6, 1 of my best friends bought an '07 C6 Z06 in 2007, (I had most of my mods done at Los Angeles Performance Division) "LAPD" Doug is there tuner, anyhow my friend David E. w/Z06 wanted to get CAI & a full Dyno Tune, I told him "LAPD was the place to go" & he went......Baseline STOCK DYNO was 465 rwhp!
After CAI (Vararam to be exact) & a full 7 hr Dyno & Road tune he put down 500 RWHP....Point is I have friends w/C6's & Z06's & spent many an hour studying up on the Corvette forums, the MAJORITY of Bone Stock C6 Z06's put down 440-470 RWHP END OF STORY...
Side note: I know of the 500 RWHP Beast from Dragtimes that Improviz omitted from his Z06 RWHP list due to it's obvious NON-Average power. Get this, the Damned thing was/is BONE STOCK!!!!! The 500 rwhp C6 Z06 was even featured in a special Corvette Magazine & had a comprehensive feature on it where they actually VERIFIED IT WAS BONE STOCK! The average Corvette does INDEED make excellent UNDERRATED POWER
Last edited by Thericker; 05-23-2008 at 05:18 AM.
#287
Super Member
nice kill. anyone in a modded 55 coming to vegas for memorial day weekend? i have a stock zo6, video camera & love running my car from 60mph-160mph. anyone wanna play?
#288
2006 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2005 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2004 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2003 E55 specs: TBD
So I'm afraid that, when discussing the curb weight of these cars, ANY of these model years are examples.
If you have any evidence that MB affected any changes to these cars to reduce weight over this time, please produce it.
Otherwise, you don't.
Then what are you arguing about specifically?
#289
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Which shows that you know very little about MB's own specs for this car. Here are the published weight specs from MBUSA for the four years for which the W211 E55 was produced:
2006 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2005 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2004 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2003 E55 specs: TBD
So I'm afraid that, when discussing the curb weight of these cars, ANY of these model years are examples.
2006 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2005 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2004 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2003 E55 specs: TBD
So I'm afraid that, when discussing the curb weight of these cars, ANY of these model years are examples.
Last edited by MB_Forever; 05-23-2008 at 12:11 PM.
#292
more speculation.
ANY of these model year examples? Your own link shows that the 2003 model weights is not available, so how can you claim that using the links you provided. Can you say ANY model year?. As I told you before, the 2003 models did not come with a spare. Those are not my words, but words of 2003 E55 owners. Also 2003 models did not come with navigation (except a few special editions). All of those things add weight.
And nav adds, tops, maybe 20 pounds, a far cry from 200. Again: what option could add 200 pounds?
I believe that the weights provided to us by owners, the weight results from Car & Driver and Road & Track (both of whom TESTED 2003 MODELS AND WEIGHED THEM IN AT OVER 4200 POUNDS WET) and MBusa's own data establish that 4200 pounds is a reasonable average weight for these cars.
Until and unless you provlde any actual evidence showing this to be unreasonable, this discussion is closed.
#293
MB_Forever, again, I'm not going to engage you in philosophical discussions.
You state that the data on dragtimes.com should be ignored. Fine. But this is your opinion. As I said previously, the site has dyno charts, videos, time slips, etc. which are, despite your insistance to the contrary, evidence. Ricker has personally witnessed such runs, which is evidence. Other people from this forum personally witnessed a stocker running a sub-11 time. And as I said before: you have in no way, shape, or form shown any of this data to be fraudulent, untrustworthy, unreliable, or inaccurate.
Your argument is, basically, that because neither you nor anyone you deem to be "reliable" witnessed the dynos in question, and because they "might be" fakes, then this invalidates them.
Which is, basically, a great big, steaming hot load of BS.
Using this "logic", a policeman could simply say "well, this man "might" have dealt drugs at some time in the past, and he can't prove that he didn't, so by golly, we'll just lock him up."
In other words, you're basically saying that, in your mind, these people are guilty until proven innocent.
Rubbish.
The site dragtimes.com is run by Fikse, a member of these forums. If you feel that those Z06 numbers, timeslips, dynos, videos etc. are inaccurate, untrustworthy, or unrepresentative, please, by all means: PM him, ask him to remove them, and see how far you get. I'm through arguing this point with you.
As to how well the Autocar's best test results for the Z06 they tested, ten seconds from 0-100, accurately represent the performance of that car, well, readers can look at the preponderance of evidence, particularly how well it's done in other publications, as well as videos, and what other members have testified to in this thread, and make up their own minds. I'm through arguing this point with you as well.
As to jangy's reliability, well, I addressed that above.
And I'm sorry, but yes, I have brought facts, along with other owners from this forum whom you are studiously ignoring. The drag times data are not imaginary, they are time slips, dynos, videos fo dynos, videos of 1/4 mile tests for this car. Others who have personally witnessed both dyno runs and 1/4 mile runs for bone stock Z06s have also brought facts. Owners of both cars have reported results of their runs, which are also facts. I have brought weigh-in data from Car & Driver and Road & Track showing the Z06 to weigh a full one thousand pounds less than an E55.
This has been firmly established, and you have presented nothing to counter it but ridiculous discussions about 2003 MY omissions of a 60 lb spare tire from a 4200 pound automobile, in a discussion about what a MY 2006 weighs. Even Mercedes' own specs show this to be a stupid argument, so I'm through arguing this point with you as well.
We've seen videos of what Z06s with similar mods to the one Jangy supposedly raced can do; when jangy produces a similar video or timeslip, then we can talk.
But until then, I'm through arguing with you. The facts on both sides are there, people can decide for themselves, and that's that.
You state that the data on dragtimes.com should be ignored. Fine. But this is your opinion. As I said previously, the site has dyno charts, videos, time slips, etc. which are, despite your insistance to the contrary, evidence. Ricker has personally witnessed such runs, which is evidence. Other people from this forum personally witnessed a stocker running a sub-11 time. And as I said before: you have in no way, shape, or form shown any of this data to be fraudulent, untrustworthy, unreliable, or inaccurate.
Your argument is, basically, that because neither you nor anyone you deem to be "reliable" witnessed the dynos in question, and because they "might be" fakes, then this invalidates them.
Which is, basically, a great big, steaming hot load of BS.
Using this "logic", a policeman could simply say "well, this man "might" have dealt drugs at some time in the past, and he can't prove that he didn't, so by golly, we'll just lock him up."
In other words, you're basically saying that, in your mind, these people are guilty until proven innocent.
Rubbish.
The site dragtimes.com is run by Fikse, a member of these forums. If you feel that those Z06 numbers, timeslips, dynos, videos etc. are inaccurate, untrustworthy, or unrepresentative, please, by all means: PM him, ask him to remove them, and see how far you get. I'm through arguing this point with you.
As to how well the Autocar's best test results for the Z06 they tested, ten seconds from 0-100, accurately represent the performance of that car, well, readers can look at the preponderance of evidence, particularly how well it's done in other publications, as well as videos, and what other members have testified to in this thread, and make up their own minds. I'm through arguing this point with you as well.
As to jangy's reliability, well, I addressed that above.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
And I'm sorry, but yes, I have brought facts, along with other owners from this forum whom you are studiously ignoring. The drag times data are not imaginary, they are time slips, dynos, videos fo dynos, videos of 1/4 mile tests for this car. Others who have personally witnessed both dyno runs and 1/4 mile runs for bone stock Z06s have also brought facts. Owners of both cars have reported results of their runs, which are also facts. I have brought weigh-in data from Car & Driver and Road & Track showing the Z06 to weigh a full one thousand pounds less than an E55.
This has been firmly established, and you have presented nothing to counter it but ridiculous discussions about 2003 MY omissions of a 60 lb spare tire from a 4200 pound automobile, in a discussion about what a MY 2006 weighs. Even Mercedes' own specs show this to be a stupid argument, so I'm through arguing this point with you as well.
We've seen videos of what Z06s with similar mods to the one Jangy supposedly raced can do; when jangy produces a similar video or timeslip, then we can talk.
But until then, I'm through arguing with you. The facts on both sides are there, people can decide for themselves, and that's that.
#294
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
(sigh)....we aren't talking ANY model year, and you damn well know it. And we're also not talking about a 2003, and you also damn well know it. And wrt the cars whose weights I presented, some of them were said, by their owners, to have had the spare removed, so for those I added it back in, eliminating it as a variable from that data set.
Spare: 60 lbs
Pano roof: 100 to 120 lbs
Heated/Cooling seats: guessing 30 lbs
Parktronic: 20 lbs
Distronic: 10 lbs
Electric Trunk Closer: 10 to 20 lbs
LSD option from PP (was available in Europe, but some members in the U.S. were able to privately order it): 100 lbs
I believe that the weights provided to us by owners, the weight results from Car & Driver and Road & Track (both of whom TESTED 2003 MODELS AND WEIGHED THEM IN AT OVER 4200 POUNDS WET) and MBusa's own data establish that 4200 pounds is a reasonable average weight for these cars.
You yourself provided the data showing curb weight of 4087 lbs. Why are you now accepting the 4200 lbs figure?
#296
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
You state that the data on dragtimes.com should be ignored. Fine. But this is your opinion. As I said previously, the site has dyno charts, videos, time slips, etc. which are, despite your insistance to the contrary, evidence. Ricker has personally witnessed such runs, which is evidence.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
As to how well the Autocar's best test results for the Z06 they tested, ten seconds from 0-100, accurately represent the performance of that car, well, readers can look at the preponderance of evidence, particularly how well it's done in other publications, as well as videos, and what other members have testified to in this thread, and make up their own minds. I'm through arguing this point with you as well.
I thought we were arguing about stock Z06s vs a well modified E55.
#297
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I never argued their representation. I was arguing that not all E55s weight well over 4200 lbs as you stated. Because of all the "heavy" options of the E55 (and Mercedes in general), their weight may vary greatly, maybe 200 to 300 lbs.
#298
MB_Forever, you should read more carefully:
Again, if you believe the Z06 data posted on Fikse's website to be unrepresentative, inaccurate, or fraudulent, then PM him and ask him to remove them.
But I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote that, and the following, in my last post wrt the validity and invalidity of evidence.
Through means trough. Come back when you've got some actual physical evidence that a 503 rwhp E55 can beat a Z06 w/intake and exhausts with a good driver. Plenty of evidence to the contrary, including testimony of Benz owners and a video of Zlicious destroying a similarly modded Benz has been presented that shows this ain't happenin'.
But I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote that, and the following, in my last post wrt the validity and invalidity of evidence.
![drive](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/driving.gif)
Last edited by Improviz; 05-23-2008 at 01:33 PM.
#299
mb_forever, I'll make it easy for you.
Prove that the actual measured weights of the E55s I listed are unrepresentative of what jangy's car should weigh.
Prove that the actual measured weights of the E55s I listed are unrepresentative of what jangy's car should weigh.
Please provide a quote where I denied that MBUSA's web site shows a curb weight of 4087 pounds for this vehicle, or where I claimed that their data says it is 4200.
Last edited by Improviz; 05-23-2008 at 01:28 PM.
#300
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Through means trough. Come back when you've got some actual physical evidence that a 503 rwhp E55 can beat a Z06 w/intake and exhausts with a good driver. Plenty of evidence to the contrary, including testimony of Benz owners and a video of Zlicious destroying a similarly modded Benz has been presented that shows this ain't happenin'.