jangy

I'll go to the track. I don't have the car back yet, but I'll go. What does that have to do with this thread? I'm just jabbing with Improv, but it was in traffic on a open highway. What do i really think happened? I think I always have a "driver's" advantage over most just because I may push mine a bit more. I dunno and I don't care. A win is a win, and the driver is part of that win.

Another thing nobody is even talking about is the powerband used on an 80 to 150 sprint. All that gets yapped about is the peak numbers and hypo situations. Again, not saying that would bump me over a Z06 but it may help over the other "modded" E55s that have shown 500hp.

jangy

Been aware of them and always knew something was up. After all, this is an OT thread or our MC wouldn't be presiding.

JAYCL600

oy vey Jangy. Like I said I have plenty of data for you. for a matter of perspective on the day that Jamie ran a 10.83 @ 130 i ran a 10.99 @ 125 same day same track

Verified 60-130 times using Vbox GPS
7.48 - Acicchelli / Renntech SL65 AMG
7.86 - Divexxtreme / Stock C6 Z06 / 2-shifts <he can drive

ItalianStallion

Offtopic, but Drivexxtreme has one badass P-turbo! Lol...

Thanks for the data Jay, good stuff. Lots of the 6speedonline dudes use the 60-130 measurements.

JAYCL600

no problemo, and yes his pcar will make most grown men cry.

Id like to ammend my post above by saying that there is a lot of talk about HP in this thread but no talk about TQ. Our cars are pigs, period. The heavier our cars the more important that TQ figure becomes. Our cars would be pretty slow if we made about 100-200lbs feet less like the rest of the "normal" performance vehicles out there. Sure my car makes 530+ rwhp big deal, but it makes 710+ rwtq and thats what makes it get down the track. just my .02

jangy

Nice data and I like the 60 - 130 metric as well.

Not sure exactly what you are telling me, though.

Thericker

Too funny Jangster I've got a novel idea?? I live on planet earth & know I can't run anywhere near a C6 Z06 in my stock SL600, how bout' you & I meet up for a few friendly runs

I'm pretty certain you should beat me, but I'm bettin not by much (going by your rwhp of 503 at time you ran the C6 wide body Z06 imposter lol) If you've increased your mod arsenal say to 530-550 rwhp I humbly retract "but I'm bettin not by much"

I'll deff pull out my stock air filters for a few more ponies, 600ft lbs should keep me near you on frwy roll.

If anything it's always fun to race a faster car INMYOP

PS...None of this "Meet me @ 8am in O.C. on Sat morning krap" you know I live in SB, so we both drive half-way & meet in LA.

I've looked up my Curb weight, it's very close to your 211 E55 4200-4300 lb..... My 2005 SL600 weighs 4429 lbs Soaking Wet... I'll pull out my spare tire too, so minus 60 lbs = 4369lbs !!

Thericker

I brought it up on page 5. bro

MB_Forever

Since you introduced the dynos, you should at least provide some kind of validity as to how accurate they are. You seem to be convinced that a pretty video is an all mighty proof. If I bring a piece of evidence to the table, I have to at least show validity of that evidence instead of ask the other side to check validity if they don't believe me.

Don't assume everything you read on dragtimes (or online for that matter) to be 100% accurate.

First you said they were too hypothetical, but many know that they're not only possible, but in fact probable. So now them to being speculative, but so as most of our discussion here. These are conditions that do happen in a race.

Here we go again.... I claimed sometimes they manipulate data to favor a certain manufacturer. Surely you don't think that they are 100% unbiased to all manufacturers.

Yes we are.....

I never said it must be verified by myself. I said well respected members of the forum. And trusting a few posts on dragtimes is not really fact-based, maybe more faith based than critiquing them.

Never claimed to be, but you on the other hand seem to believe every dyno and post on dragtimes is 100% accurate, which whether is or not should be verified.

And you have no evidence that they are real. Just because there is a video of something online does not make it real. I guess you believe in superman, the incredible hulk, and aliens........ they're videos are all over the hollywood.

No problem.


Maybe to you in your mind it was, but not to me or to what I was talking about.

I was speaking for myself and a couple of friends

Please don't say....... Are you suggesting that the magazine skewed the numbers?

Definitely more accurate than the calculator and takes more factors into account vs the "hypothetical" calculator.

Will do....

Using your own argument: you have no proof they are under-rated since nobody really knows the drivetrain loss percentage. And even the mighty E55 have shown some low dynos.

So you think these are very uncommon and un-realistic considerations in a real world race?

Either equip both cars with launch control or strip them both from it. It was BMW's decision not Mercedes. But even with launch control (which some people here in the U.S. custom added), their cars did not beat the E55.

Not in all races.

Who said anything about modded dynos. You must be tired. I said the dynos you introduced from dragtimes, which apparently are stock.

So the two magazines did report 2 different results for the same car. Yet you only seem to be interested in the Goddess of all magazines, Motor Trend.

I actually provided the link as an actual example of the inconsistency of magazine tests, which you seem to think is impossible Those are two different magazines, testing the same car, and report different results.

I'm sure the magazine tests are more than "plenty" of proof, but you seem to select only certain ones.

First you said I claimed they're all fraudulent, then now you say I implied yet that is not what I said. I even clarified in my last post but you seem to want to deny reasonable critiquing of online dynos.

Vadim, Jangy, and others have established their reputation here very firmly. And many other members have verified their claims to be correct (whether about this particular dyno of Jangy's car or any other work). But the ones on dragtimes still remain unverified, and sorry, but you still have not proved any of their validity or accuracy.

So you believe in superman?

No, what I mean is that in your mind they are verified with no proof while Jangy's dyno have been witnessed by credible members on here, and you're still welcomed to come down here and verify all of their work.

You seem to offer your own "interpretations" of opinions and/or facts.

Not really. I reasonably questioned un-verified data. Shortly after, you started claiming that I said all data was fraudulent and invalid if they don't support Jangy's car. So far you have submitted and talked about unverified data. I can submit un-verified data all day long, but still does not make that data true or valid.

You haven't brought facts either. You looked up some data online and presented it as ultimate truth and is asking anyone who questions its validity to prove it themselves.

MB_Forever

Actually I thought the topic was already side tracked when all the weights from different years were being discussed especially in separate posts.

I never argued that. I simply answered your question.

Side note: please correct your quotes. In this post, you accidentally quoted me as Jangy

I said Mercedes' advertised weight numbers are based on standard equipment vehicles (without any added options), and that's why you're seeing the added weight.

I never said, implied, or even hinted their weights were in dispute You seem to dearly think so.

Thericker

Bro, I owned a nicely modded C6, 1 of my best friends bought an '07 C6 Z06 in 2007, (I had most of my mods done at Los Angeles Performance Division) "LAPD" Doug is there tuner, anyhow my friend David E. w/Z06 wanted to get CAI & a full Dyno Tune, I told him "LAPD was the place to go" & he went......Baseline STOCK DYNO was 465 rwhp!

After CAI (Vararam to be exact) & a full 7 hr Dyno & Road tune he put down 500 RWHP....Point is I have friends w/C6's & Z06's & spent many an hour studying up on the Corvette forums, the MAJORITY of Bone Stock C6 Z06's put down 440-470 RWHP END OF STORY...

Side note: I know of the 500 RWHP Beast from Dragtimes that Improviz omitted from his Z06 RWHP list due to it's obvious NON-Average power. Get this, the Damned thing was/is BONE STOCK!!!!! The 500 rwhp C6 Z06 was even featured in a special Corvette Magazine & had a comprehensive feature on it where they actually VERIFIED IT WAS BONE STOCK! The average Corvette does INDEED make excellent UNDERRATED POWER

02cl55amg

nice kill. anyone in a modded 55 coming to vegas for memorial day weekend? i have a stock zo6, video camera & love running my car from 60mph-160mph. anyone wanna play?

Improviz

Which shows that you know very little about MB's own specs for this car. Here are the published weight specs from MBUSA for the four years for which the W211 E55 was produced:

2006 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2005 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2004 E55 specs: 4087 pounds
2003 E55 specs: TBD

So I'm afraid that, when discussing the curb weight of these cars, ANY of these model years are examples.

If you have any evidence that MB affected any changes to these cars to reduce weight over this time, please produce it.

Fine, so if Jangy's car is a stripper with no options, you've got a point to discuss here.

Otherwise, you don't.

Then what are you arguing about specifically?

MB_Forever

ANY of these model year examples? Your own link shows that the 2003 model weights is not available, so how can you claim that using the links you provided. Can you say ANY model year?. As I told you before, the 2003 models did not come with a spare. Those are not my words, but words of 2003 E55 owners. Also 2003 models did not come with navigation (except a few special editions). All of those things add weight.

Rock

Is anyone besides me contemplating suicide?

MB_Forever

I didn't even think people were reading the thread anymore

Improviz

(sigh)....we aren't talking ANY model year, and you damn well know it. And we're also not talking about a 2003, and you also damn well know it. And wrt the cars whose weights I presented, some of them were said, by their owners, to have had the spare removed, so for those I added it back in, eliminating it as a variable from that data set.

And nav adds, tops, maybe 20 pounds, a far cry from 200. Again: what option could add 200 pounds?

I believe that the weights provided to us by owners, the weight results from Car & Driver and Road & Track (both of whom TESTED 2003 MODELS AND WEIGHED THEM IN AT OVER 4200 POUNDS WET) and MBusa's own data establish that 4200 pounds is a reasonable average weight for these cars.

Until and unless you provlde any actual evidence showing this to be unreasonable, this discussion is closed.

Improviz

MB_Forever, again, I'm not going to engage you in philosophical discussions.

You state that the data on dragtimes.com should be ignored. Fine. But this is your opinion. As I said previously, the site has dyno charts, videos, time slips, etc. which are, despite your insistance to the contrary, evidence. Ricker has personally witnessed such runs, which is evidence. Other people from this forum personally witnessed a stocker running a sub-11 time. And as I said before: you have in no way, shape, or form shown any of this data to be fraudulent, untrustworthy, unreliable, or inaccurate.

Your argument is, basically, that because neither you nor anyone you deem to be "reliable" witnessed the dynos in question, and because they "might be" fakes, then this invalidates them.

Which is, basically, a great big, steaming hot load of BS.

Using this "logic", a policeman could simply say "well, this man "might" have dealt drugs at some time in the past, and he can't prove that he didn't, so by golly, we'll just lock him up."

In other words, you're basically saying that, in your mind, these people are guilty until proven innocent.

Rubbish.

The site dragtimes.com is run by Fikse, a member of these forums. If you feel that those Z06 numbers, timeslips, dynos, videos etc. are inaccurate, untrustworthy, or unrepresentative, please, by all means: PM him, ask him to remove them, and see how far you get. I'm through arguing this point with you.

As to how well the Autocar's best test results for the Z06 they tested, ten seconds from 0-100, accurately represent the performance of that car, well, readers can look at the preponderance of evidence, particularly how well it's done in other publications, as well as videos, and what other members have testified to in this thread, and make up their own minds. I'm through arguing this point with you as well.

As to jangy's reliability, well, I addressed that above.

And I'm sorry, but yes, I have brought facts, along with other owners from this forum whom you are studiously ignoring. The drag times data are not imaginary, they are time slips, dynos, videos fo dynos, videos of 1/4 mile tests for this car. Others who have personally witnessed both dyno runs and 1/4 mile runs for bone stock Z06s have also brought facts. Owners of both cars have reported results of their runs, which are also facts. I have brought weigh-in data from Car & Driver and Road & Track showing the Z06 to weigh a full one thousand pounds less than an E55.

This has been firmly established, and you have presented nothing to counter it but ridiculous discussions about 2003 MY omissions of a 60 lb spare tire from a 4200 pound automobile, in a discussion about what a MY 2006 weighs. Even Mercedes' own specs show this to be a stupid argument, so I'm through arguing this point with you as well.

We've seen videos of what Z06s with similar mods to the one Jangy supposedly raced can do; when jangy produces a similar video or timeslip, then we can talk.

But until then, I'm through arguing with you. The facts on both sides are there, people can decide for themselves, and that's that.

MB_Forever

We were originally, but then it came in when the conversation was generalized to E55s at some point!

Navigation: 20 lbs
Spare: 60 lbs
Pano roof: 100 to 120 lbs
Heated/Cooling seats: guessing 30 lbs
Parktronic: 20 lbs
Distronic: 10 lbs
Electric Trunk Closer: 10 to 20 lbs
LSD option from PP (was available in Europe, but some members in the U.S. were able to privately order it): 100 lbs

MBUSA's data shows curb weight of 4087 lbs NOT 4200 lbs. And I tried to explain this to you, but you keep denying it. Curb weight does not include any option.

You yourself provided the data showing curb weight of 4087 lbs. Why are you now accepting the 4200 lbs figure?

Improviz

mb_forever, I'll make it easy for you.

Prove that the actual measured weights of the E55s I listed are unrepresentative of what jangy's car should weigh.

MB_Forever

I just saw Thericker's last post. It was not stated earlier that he witnessed any of the stock runs you provided, hence the "unverified" not fradulent coment that you keep trying to push through. I respect Thericker if he did witness these runs, but that was not mentioned earlier

And your argument seems to be since such dynos exist on a website, they are consequently 100% accurate.

Using your "logic", a policeman can submit evidence to the court that a man is guilty without verifying any piece of it.

Incorrect. I said those people may be guilty or maybe innoscent until verified one way or another.

Autocar is a reputable magazine. Using your logic.....unless you have evidence that Autocar was delibertaley being fradulent or skewing data against the Z06 at any point, I have no reason to doubt their results.

I thought we were arguing about stock Z06s vs a well modified E55.

MB_Forever

I never argued their representation. I was arguing that not all E55s weight well over 4200 lbs as you stated. Because of all the "heavy" options of the E55 (and Mercedes in general), their weight may vary greatly, maybe 200 to 300 lbs.

Improviz

Again, if you believe the Z06 data posted on Fikse's website to be unrepresentative, inaccurate, or fraudulent, then PM him and ask him to remove them.

But I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote that, and the following, in my last post wrt the validity and invalidity of evidence.
Through means trough. Come back when you've got some actual physical evidence that a 503 rwhp E55 can beat a Z06 w/intake and exhausts with a good driver. Plenty of evidence to the contrary, including testimony of Benz owners and a video of Zlicious destroying a similarly modded Benz has been presented that shows this ain't happenin'.

Improviz

Please provide a quote where I stated that "all W211 E55s weigh well over 4200 pounds."

Please provide a quote where I denied that MBUSA's web site shows a curb weight of 4087 pounds for this vehicle, or where I claimed that their data says it is 4200.

MB_Forever

Z06s are inconsistent because they are very driver dependent. But for this incident, nobody really knows if the driver was a "good" driver, "average" driver, or a "bad" driver. It is even harder to decide what constitues a "good" vs "average" driver, as different people will hold different standards. But even a very good driver can mis-shift or shift slowr than optimum once in a while. It'd be hard for someone to drive the car perfectly 100% of the time. Anyways, we don't really know much about the alleged Z06 driver, but I take it Jangy and him will probably meet again and maybe post some videos and some more info on what happened. I guess until then we'll wait and see.....