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I have worked with these guys before on an Rs6 avant and also an x5 3.0d and been very happy with the results.

i asked them about the 55k engine and this is what they said.

"it is common practise to look at increasing boost on a supercharged engine as means to more power,the easiest solution being to make a new smaller supercharger pulley.

what we opted to do was design a larger crankshaft pulley to increase the supercharger speed, but when we factored in clearances, the largest pulley wouldnt give the required boost, so we manfactured two new pulleys for two other components, so we could get an ever bigger pulley in there.

once we were certain our calculations were correct, we finalised the specs for the components.

The main part of the crankshaft pulley is a brand new original merc item, as it incorporates a damper that stops vibrations through the crank. the rest of it is machined from aerospace grade alloy,as are the smaller pulleys. Roller bearings are fitted to the new idler pulley and lastly the cranksharft pulley is balanced on a marine turbo balancing machine.

I beleive we are the only tuning company currently manufacturing these parts to such a high specification.

once fitted, combined with the custom ecu map, set up, you will see dyno of over 600 ld ft and 598 bhp."

without trawling the site, how does this compare with the US train of thought..

i want the extra grunt , and i want the reliability too..

is there anyone else from the uk had this done by DMS ???

CWW

600hp from a pulley and nothing else???



I dunno man. That sounds too good to be true...

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pulley( or series of pulleys) and ecu reflash...IS the DMS conversion more complicated than other tuners ??

they say just doing the ecu on its own gives 40 hp, but combining the ecu with the pulley work, they all come out at about 600 hp...give or take.

my point being you guys in the states have extensive knowledge/experience of this type of tuning, and i need to know the downsides to what DMS are saying...i trust them, but there is no substitue for experience in a field like this...

chiromikey

the only thing they're doing differently than any other pulley manufacturer or tuner is making bogus hp claims. even asp (the cheapest pulley manufacturer on the market) also provides a smaller waterpump pulley to accomodate the larger crankshaft pulley.

zdkdeeier493

Mikey is right. Its standard operation to manufacture smaller accessory pulleys in order to allow for clearance for the larger crank pulley. That being said, it only makes these guys seem more like amateurs given that they dont know the current state of the market.

CWW

I think the downside is, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of making 600hp just with a pulley. They are exaggerating the gains you can expect, and you will probably be disappointed.

MJ50

ask them for dyno sheet!

Jakpro1

Even Klee will tell you, the stocker does a pretty good job of this.
Preparation for rape on price

See above rape reference

Dayum, she'll put out a thousand horsepower now


Just havin some fun.

If you've ever seen the ASP pulley, it literally is a few mm's from the water pump pulley and THAT is a custom smaller pump pulley. The pulley is just massive!!!

Lee at ASP said it best, "I can make the dang thing the size of a manhole cover if ya want. Too bad the car will detonate as you turn the key to start it" He's obviously making a point in his Texas accent that the car with the ASP is literally at the point of "too much heat for the amount of boost it generates". You super techies know the term.....I forgot what it is called.

A tuner that cares so much about quality really wouldn't sell such a massive pulley without strongly recommending a cooling upgrade. With that much heat, even if it put out 600hp, it would be for a few seconds, then an instant boat anchor as car becomes a heat soaked slug.

Right now, we need someone to put out that SLR cooling system for as cheap as possible. Soon as someone can market it without totally raping us, they will make a killing.

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thanks for the response guys..

i just needed to know that what they are doing is pretty much the same as what everyone else is doing.

the boost figures quoted are up from .8 to 1.05 once remapped and running the multi pulley system...car will be dyno's before and after on site to prove gains

the price is 2500 pounds fitted...5000 dollars rough and tough ?

por997s

Guys, I am from the UK and DMS have worked on my car. Pulley and Ecu upgrade. To be honest I rate them as the best tuning company. I have had a bad experience with one tuning company and DMS are in a league of there own. Full money back guarantee. The have tuned more exotic cars, from Lambo's, Ferrari, M5, Porsche, AMG etc etc, the list goes on!! I have raced many of cars, see some of my threads. The gains on the E55 are impressive actually scary. Forget about Dynos, drive the bloody car and feel the difference. I have raced 997TT, Lambo Gallardo, 430 and the owners were stunned. I have total respect for DMS. How about the SL65AMG tuned by DMS that is as quick as a RUF GT2 RT12. Please keep me informed with your progress as my next project will be with DMS also.

Dont have any issues with heat soak as I had my pump replaced by Mercedes before the upgrade. I have had the upgrade roughly 1 year now and reliability is 100%.

Zod

Do not know anything about DMS, but you can not be to fast to exclude them unless we see some figures i think. ( you have mentioned butt dyno which doesn't count , ofc its going to feel bad *** you get more TRQ!...but its the a/f and hp we want to see to)

Secondly with the heat soak issue....it has become such a tail that people left right and center just go and say you will get it and suffer from it, due to all the bad experience people had with the OLD pump that used to fail allot. and the funny thing half of them have not done any data logging or attempt to see if it is an issue for them...

From that point on its heat soak for everything, even with out trying the revised MB new pump, which is fine and has no problems.

now on a modified car with a big *** pulley with a bad pump you can understand the bad results (bad due to heat). Tuning is also a big player in this area to ECU.

So all in all get the garentee in writing from them & several dynos of a 55k to see everything is safe and you should have your answer

joshd

I'm pretty sure that the laws of physics and internal combustion are the same in Europe as they are in the US

Therefore, I can pretty much guarantee that the DMS pulley and ECU are making almost the same numbers as the VRP 550 package at around twice the price. However, in Europe they tend to focus and market solely based on crank hp numbers, not wheel horsepower. So ... it's fairly easy for them to come up with that number by saying that car has a 20% drivetrain loss, and 600 - .2(600) = 480 at the wheels. Which on a high reading dyno is probably very close to what the VRP 550 package puts down.

Besides, if their pulley is really that much bigger than ASP/VRP, then it would just overspin the S/C anyway, resulting in a lot of hot air ... so to speak.

I'm not saying DMS isn't potentially a very good company, but that number is clearly a bit inflated for marketing purposes ...

CWW

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nope.

running 98/99 ron, those are apparently the figures...

suppose my friend who runs a sl65 is right about the 'if its not made in the good old u.s of, then its got to be bull****' attitude on this forum...

i respect the opinion of most so far, but decrying it for the sake of, is a bit narrow minded and ignorant.

but thats cool....everyone is entitled to there opinion.

thanks guys

joshd

I'm definitely not saying that at all. After my 1970 Plymouth Duster, I've never even considered purchasing another American car, so that says something

All I'm saying is that the experience from tuners all over the world, including the most respected American and European tuners indicates that 600hp at the crank is not realistic for just a pulley and tune.

However, what I am saying is that it's very easy to play numbers games with crank hp; adjusting variables like drivetrain loss (which can only be a guess), dyno parameters, correction factors, etc. can easily lead to a 'claim' of 600 crank hp. Which, like any crank hp claim without testing on an engine dyno, is just a guess anyway.

The only way their kit is really making 50 more hp than VRP/Kleemann/Renntech, etc. is if the pulley is that much larger making a lot more boost. But that has also shown to be problematic in that the S/C can't support that much more boost without churning the air into an over heated frenzy. Even then, the restrictions of the airbox, throttle body, and headers are working against such a possibility.

Just my thoughts ...

racetested

Comments made have nothing to do with being patriotic as this isn't a country vs country debate about politics and culture.

As one poster mentioned laws of physics don't change from one country to the next and that's the reason for doubt.

Machining from one pulley to the next can be better quality but that doesn't change how much more boost they can make if they have the "same" diameters.

JAYCL600

the difference between us and you is that we dont live by crank numbers or hypothetical or overinflated figures from tuners, we live in the real world of HP that is measured by dyno figures and 1/4 track time. Do some searching before you go generalizing about our members.

stevebez

DMS are a reputable crowd in the UK but they wont get you 600hp from their pulley and ECU mod - forget it.

Their mod is a simple modified OEM pulley (as per many others) to around an ASP spec. (mbe even smaller). No headers, no H/E, no T/B, no Johnson Pump, no Airbox...

Its frustating to see agood conmpany like this make silly claims like that.

If that were true my car would be putting out around 650HP. With my mods I would be lucky to see 600hp.

That RT12 is one fast sucker... got to 211mph (new record) at the VMAX in the UK. Think the fastest benz was a Kleeman SL600 at 195MPH.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I think we're a bit jaded as there are a great many european tuners who promise the world with just an ECU upgrade. You can read the back of any EU or UK car mag (just pick up a copy of Top Gear and my point will be proven) and find a zillion tuners that promise 100+hp from an ECU. Also you have to take into consideration the relatively higher octane ratings of European gas.

Also, if someone here did decide to guinea pig their car with a Euro tuner's work, if there were to be an issue with their $100k testbed, the responsible party is several thousand miles away. This makes it difficult to break down their door with an axe to get your money back, as some forum members have essentially done with some US tuners.

ChicagoX

So it went from "have you heard of these guys?" to "you guys suck if you don't like them" in 5 posts.

Good job sack-swinging, newb.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Somebody change his status to "Disproved"

TuneTime

without a upgraded Intercooler pump you are going to heat soak... bottom line... the factory setup has a hard time keeping the car cool in its stock form...

DNJ

I certainly agree that DMS are a much respected company in Europe. There work has been reviewed to great acclaim in many serious magazines over the years (e.g., EVO). Indeed based on these reviews I had an ECU remap done. The increases are 40bph and 40ft lb torque. Consequently I am very happy indeed! I would be very surprised if their claims are way off since their standing in the market is based on the validity of their results thus far.

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i say it like i see it...i asked if anyone knew if there claims were reasonable...

i didnt get balanced debate from everyone...although i did get it from most...

as for being a newb, i am new here as i am considering tuning my e55, hence my arrival...

at least i got a better response this time.

thanks to the guys who gaved balanced opinion, and even thanks for those that didnt....( think i've already said that)

sack swinging newb...quality

and you guys suck ( do you?) for not liking DMS isnt what i said...

ChicagoX

Actually, this is what you said:

If you would care to actually engage in a more erudite dialogue about the pros and cons of various tuners' approaches, and which one might best be suited for your needs and budget, I am more than willing (as are most)

This forum has seen enough *****e paraded through here to know what works, and what you need scrape off the bottom of your wellies.

To see yet another tuner make outrageous claims with minimal parts swapped is old news, and those claims will be promptly discredited with the first trip to the rolling road facility.. Good luck getting the dosh back then.

This is a tough room - but we're willing to help. Why don't you post up some pics of your 55 to get the ball rolling?