Renntech Stage 1 looses to a Tuned 335i
08-27-2008, 09:41 PM
#26
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that was my car...
and my first also...
i floored it but the car just didn't have good acceleration...
i was in S mode and D gear.
not denying what happened but could do better after more practice runs...
and technically, it's not RENNtech stage1...
i have RENNtech pulley and SI ECU tune, magnaflow mufflers with 3" pipe
no cooling mods
palnning on 2nd cat delete and then 80mm TB mod
and my first also...
i floored it but the car just didn't have good acceleration...
i was in S mode and D gear.
not denying what happened but could do better after more practice runs...
and technically, it's not RENNtech stage1...
i have RENNtech pulley and SI ECU tune, magnaflow mufflers with 3" pipe
no cooling mods
palnning on 2nd cat delete and then 80mm TB mod
Something just doesn't add up when you compare this to other similar cars on dragtimes. I posted this over on the bimmerforums but I guess I need someone to help me understand the outcomes.
If you just search dragtimes you'll see most of the Renntech Stage 1 E55's in the mid 11-s with traps in the 119-120 range. I could not find ANY 335's that come CLOSE to that sort of trap time....even a Shiv driven procede could only manage a best of 12.3 @116. 116 is stock E55 caliber, a stage 1 car should smoke that.
Most of the JB modded cars (granted 2's vs 3's and I don't know the difference to be honest) trapped in the 110 range, which wouldn't even hang with a stock E much less beat one. Most modded 335's couldn't even break the 110 trap speed. So was this a fluke or is everyone on dragtimes full of it?
08-27-2008, 09:53 PM
#27
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This will allow the heat exchanger to run on its own fluid. Not sharing coolant with a hot engine. I saw some pics of really nice setup a while back that was mounted in the trunk. 
Ice water in big aluminum reservoir. That would be the ultimate. I thought it was someone on the forum.
Ice water in big aluminum reservoir. That would be the ultimate. I thought it was someone on the forum.otherwise, i'll just settle with Code3 spearco HE and CM30 pump...
08-27-2008, 09:57 PM
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Bro, do cooling next. Our cars don't have to shut down the SC to have power snuffed. when your IATs rise (even as the car is blasting down the road), the car will begin to pull timing on you to stay safe. It will still be spinning the SC, but your tune just went to crap.
I'm also doing cooling right now, but SPLIT THE SYSTEMS!!!! I can not believe that ANY tuner would sell you a larger HE and higher capacity pump and say it will do much. If you do not separate, all you do is buy time. Maybe your car will make a single blast without pulling as much timing, but the datalogged IATs I've seen are dramatic between the separated systems and the ones that just have larger HEs. Also, keep in mind that separating means you add HE capacity as well.
I'm also doing cooling right now, but SPLIT THE SYSTEMS!!!! I can not believe that ANY tuner would sell you a larger HE and higher capacity pump and say it will do much. If you do not separate, all you do is buy time. Maybe your car will make a single blast without pulling as much timing, but the datalogged IATs I've seen are dramatic between the separated systems and the ones that just have larger HEs. Also, keep in mind that separating means you add HE capacity as well.
08-27-2008, 10:00 PM
#30
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Bro, do cooling next. Our cars don't have to shut down the SC to have power snuffed. when your IATs rise (even as the car is blasting down the road), the car will begin to pull timing on you to stay safe. It will still be spinning the SC, but your tune just went to crap.
I'm also doing cooling right now, but SPLIT THE SYSTEMS!!!! I can not believe that ANY tuner would sell you a larger HE and higher capacity pump and say it will do much. If you do not separate, all you do is buy time. Maybe your car will make a single blast without pulling as much timing, but the datalogged IATs I've seen are dramatic between the separated systems and the ones that just have larger HEs. Also, keep in mind that separating means you add HE capacity as well.
I'm also doing cooling right now, but SPLIT THE SYSTEMS!!!! I can not believe that ANY tuner would sell you a larger HE and higher capacity pump and say it will do much. If you do not separate, all you do is buy time. Maybe your car will make a single blast without pulling as much timing, but the datalogged IATs I've seen are dramatic between the separated systems and the ones that just have larger HEs. Also, keep in mind that separating means you add HE capacity as well.
08-27-2008, 10:10 PM
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No, it is VRP in Costa Mesa. I don't do much in SD anymore. Even the last muffler place I went didn't live up. For now I get all my tuning done by Vadim at VRP, cosmetics from HMS, and MB related work from Heyvon Motors so I am in OC no matter what the mod.
08-27-2008, 10:15 PM
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does vadim have parts for doing split system or do i need to bring those parts as well? johnson pump should arrive next week and code3 HE in about 2-3 weeks...
08-27-2008, 10:22 PM
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In all honesty, I don't think you will want to keep either. Vadim has an even better pump than the CM90 and again the HE is a separate one NOT a larger one. you keep all stock HEs and add this, NOT like the code3. Vadim can tell you what to order or you can call and have him get them. He just charges labor for this. Sorry for the confusion, but do it right or not at all, especially when you aren't even talking about a big money difference. Here is the point, your car will always lose at the top end if you do not take care of the heat. ALWAYS.
08-27-2008, 10:25 PM
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In all honesty, I don't think you will want to keep either. Vadim has an even better pump than the CM90 and again the HE is a separate one NOT a larger one. you keep all stock HEs and add this, NOT like the code3. Vadim can tell you what to order or you can call and have him get them. He just charges labor for this. Sorry for the confusion, but do it right or not at all, especially when you aren't even talking about a big money difference. Here is the point, your car will always lose at the top end if you do not take care of the heat. ALWAYS.
08-27-2008, 10:33 PM
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Anytime bro. I don't like to see a beast go down like that. While he has it on the datalog, get him to track the A/F ratios to see how your tune is doing. TQ management is HUGE!!!
08-27-2008, 10:37 PM
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To give the car as much cushion to maximixe traction. You drop the air to under 20 and make the suspension soft (Comfort) to allow the most contact even under undulations of the track. A lowered or stiff car will likely wheeel hop more.
08-27-2008, 11:28 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
In all honesty, I don't think you will want to keep either. Vadim has an even better pump than the CM90 and again the HE is a separate one NOT a larger one. you keep all stock HEs and add this, NOT like the code3. Vadim can tell you what to order or you can call and have him get them. He just charges labor for this. Sorry for the confusion, but do it right or not at all, especially when you aren't even talking about a big money difference. Here is the point, your car will always lose at the top end if you do not take care of the heat. ALWAYS.
Cooling was the first thing I took care of on my car. After reading through the forum, I just figured it made sense to do this first since heat soak is the Achilles heel of the E55.
08-27-2008, 11:50 PM
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So am I to understand that my current setup of a Code 3 HE (the big one for '03s), CM30 pump, and PTE thermostat is now a crap set up?
Cooling was the first thing I took care of on my car. After reading through the forum, I just figured it made sense to do this first since heat soak is the Achilles heel of the E55.
Cooling was the first thing I took care of on my car. After reading through the forum, I just figured it made sense to do this first since heat soak is the Achilles heel of the E55.
The HE: Yes, the code3 is bigger than stcok and of nice quality, but a separate HE has 2 advantages for me. First, it raises the total cooling volume by a larger percentage since it is adding capacity and not replacing it. the OEM setup will remain to cool te engine and is actually now oversized since it does not cool the SC. The SC HE will be more efficient just because the temp going in is cooler (MUCH MUCH cooler).
CM30: I've said this a bunch of times and not many like to hear it, but the flow capacity of the CM30 is the same (almost) as the OEM one. If your pump fails and you have no warranty, then sure replace it with a plug and play CM30 but it is no upgrade. I know many people say that flow is not so critical, since the heat doesn't get a good chance in the HE, but again I disagree. I see it all as a system. If you can flow the fluid faster, then it means that you are always keeping the delta between the fluid and the ambient air the largest. Either way, you still have X volume of fluid in the HE at any given time. I have never been one to believe that the fluid is cooled significantly in a single pass. To me, more passes are better. Given that, I am not even happy with the CM90. Last thing, the Marine pumps are made to withstand aqueous solutions and salts, NOT detergents, coolants, etc. Going with an automotive pump allows me to play with fluids more.
PTE Thermostat: Again, if all you were doing is taking a stock car and dong some road runs, then this would be great. But, lowering the engine temp even slightly can have an effect on the performance and reliability of the motor AND doesn't help your IATs as significantly as straight up removing that heating source from your setup. It is a great bandaid, but not a performance mod.
08-28-2008, 12:00 AM
#41
I've heard something about VRP having a new system out, care to chime in Vadim and share what will be different or improved over other systems? I'm considering having this done if it proves to be more efficient and cost effective over other systems.
08-28-2008, 12:03 AM
#42
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Hold on a second, bro. i'm not here to badmouth ANY other setups. I agree with you that cooling is critical for our cars. I am in no way saying your setup is crap. Also, this is simply my uneducated opinion. I prefer a separated system, since i really think cooling is important. If the car were either stock or slightly modded and just wanted to be able to do a bull run or something of that sort, then your setup is plenty. here is exactly what I think of each component and why i went with Vadim's design:
The HE: Yes, the code3 is bigger than stcok and of nice quality, but a separate HE has 2 advantages for me. First, it raises the total cooling volume by a larger percentage since it is adding capacity and not replacing it. the OEM setup will remain to cool te engine and is actually now oversized since it does not cool the SC. The SC HE will be more efficient just because the temp going in is cooler (MUCH MUCH cooler).
CM30: I've said this a bunch of times and not many like to hear it, but the flow capacity of the CM30 is the same (almost) as the OEM one. If your pump fails and you have no warranty, then sure replace it with a plug and play CM30 but it is no upgrade. I know many people say that flow is not so critical, since the heat doesn't get a good chance in the HE, but again I disagree. I see it all as a system. If you can flow the fluid faster, then it means that you are always keeping the delta between the fluid and the ambient air the largest. Either way, you still have X volume of fluid in the HE at any given time. I have never been one to believe that the fluid is cooled significantly in a single pass. To me, more passes are better. Given that, I am not even happy with the CM90. Last thing, the Marine pumps are made to withstand aqueous solutions and salts, NOT detergents, coolants, etc. Going with an automotive pump allows me to play with fluids more.
PTE Thermostat: Again, if all you were doing is taking a stock car and dong some road runs, then this would be great. But, lowering the engine temp even slightly can have an effect on the performance and reliability of the motor AND doesn't help your IATs as significantly as straight up removing that heating source from your setup. It is a great bandaid, but not a performance mod.
The HE: Yes, the code3 is bigger than stcok and of nice quality, but a separate HE has 2 advantages for me. First, it raises the total cooling volume by a larger percentage since it is adding capacity and not replacing it. the OEM setup will remain to cool te engine and is actually now oversized since it does not cool the SC. The SC HE will be more efficient just because the temp going in is cooler (MUCH MUCH cooler).
CM30: I've said this a bunch of times and not many like to hear it, but the flow capacity of the CM30 is the same (almost) as the OEM one. If your pump fails and you have no warranty, then sure replace it with a plug and play CM30 but it is no upgrade. I know many people say that flow is not so critical, since the heat doesn't get a good chance in the HE, but again I disagree. I see it all as a system. If you can flow the fluid faster, then it means that you are always keeping the delta between the fluid and the ambient air the largest. Either way, you still have X volume of fluid in the HE at any given time. I have never been one to believe that the fluid is cooled significantly in a single pass. To me, more passes are better. Given that, I am not even happy with the CM90. Last thing, the Marine pumps are made to withstand aqueous solutions and salts, NOT detergents, coolants, etc. Going with an automotive pump allows me to play with fluids more.
PTE Thermostat: Again, if all you were doing is taking a stock car and dong some road runs, then this would be great. But, lowering the engine temp even slightly can have an effect on the performance and reliability of the motor AND doesn't help your IATs as significantly as straight up removing that heating source from your setup. It is a great bandaid, but not a performance mod.
The next step I've been considering is doing the split loop thing, but I figured I had time since I had more cooling capacity. Of course, when I read posts like yours above, I want to know why someone feels one set up is better than another as purely a way to better educate myself. Not to mention, some new information or products could have come to light that I missed since I've been traveling so $%&^*#@!! much lately! I...am...a...sponge.
08-28-2008, 12:04 AM
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Main benefit is cost. I believe the only thing different for this system is the pump and a slightly custom HE to fit under the mesh better. What else did you want? HAHA!!
08-28-2008, 12:06 AM
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Oh, no offense taken at all.
The next step I've been considering is doing the split loop thing, but I figured I had time since I had more cooling capacity. Of course, when I read posts like yours above, I want to know why someone feels one set up is better than another as purely a way to better educate myself. Not to mention, some new information or products could have come to light that I missed since I've been traveling so $%&^*#@!! much lately! I...am...a...sponge.
The next step I've been considering is doing the split loop thing, but I figured I had time since I had more cooling capacity. Of course, when I read posts like yours above, I want to know why someone feels one set up is better than another as purely a way to better educate myself. Not to mention, some new information or products could have come to light that I missed since I've been traveling so $%&^*#@!! much lately! I...am...a...sponge.
08-28-2008, 01:14 AM
#45
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evosport, reentech and vrp all have split cooling systems with extra HE
From what i recall they have been proven to work
Jangy i also find this funny since you are on a quest for cooling yet.....you left cooling last and am still not sure if you have it yet
Some thing change your mind..do share
From what i recall they have been proven to work
Jangy i also find this funny since you are on a quest for cooling yet.....you left cooling last and am still not sure if you have it yet
Some thing change your mind..do share
08-28-2008, 02:15 AM
#46
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evosport cooling upgrade kit is $2495
VRP intercooler upgrade kit is $1499
RENNtech intercooler pump upgrade is $3495
Code3 HE is $499
LET HE is $450
CM30 pump is $175
VRP's new split system cooling kit will be $ ???
i think they'll all do the job for what we need.
i'm sure $$$ ones will be even better job...
i guess it'll come down to cost vs what u want to accomplish...
VRP intercooler upgrade kit is $1499
RENNtech intercooler pump upgrade is $3495
Code3 HE is $499
LET HE is $450
CM30 pump is $175
VRP's new split system cooling kit will be $ ???
i think they'll all do the job for what we need.
i'm sure $$$ ones will be even better job...
i guess it'll come down to cost vs what u want to accomplish...
08-28-2008, 03:20 AM
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08-28-2008, 03:29 AM
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evosport, reentech and vrp all have split cooling systems with extra HE
From what i recall they have been proven to work
Jangy i also find this funny since you are on a quest for cooling yet.....you left cooling last and am still not sure if you have it yet
Some thing change your mind..do share
From what i recall they have been proven to work
Jangy i also find this funny since you are on a quest for cooling yet.....you left cooling last and am still not sure if you have it yet
Some thing change your mind..do share
I could use an excuse that the sequence of my mods was picked by Vadim, based on VRP's schedule on when they needed a car to use as a guinea for better parts. Vadim has had the cooling down so it is last to get a quick R&D.
I started paying attention after the tuning openned up the top end. The datalogger showed the car still pulling at the top and the IATs verified why. I had huge spikes that only slowly returned. The separated systems will minimize those highs and lows
08-28-2008, 03:35 AM
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By the way, just in case you were being real about wondering if I am getting cooling slide by VRP and see fo yo slf.
