Update: MHP ECU/TCU Tuning (Throttle Blipping, etc, DONE!)
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haters crazy
This is irrelevant anyway, back on topic...
Last edited by blackbenzz; Oct 7, 2008 at 04:23 PM.
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Tom,
I made a statement that cannot be disproved (scientists try to eliminate as many variables as possible when conducting an experiment) based on my own personal experience. In no way shape or form did I say I was a scientist, so please don't try to create extra drama for no reason.
Thanks
Andy
I made a statement that cannot be disproved (scientists try to eliminate as many variables as possible when conducting an experiment) based on my own personal experience. In no way shape or form did I say I was a scientist, so please don't try to create extra drama for no reason.
Thanks
Andy
Tom
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
yes i did state rocks car is only moderately modified and i stand behind that. simply because you're not completely familiar with the platform or what's available doesn't make me wrong.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
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When I look at what Andy has done with a tune alone compared to Rock's modified E55, I see lots of potential and VALUE. Rocks car should have walked all over the C63. Perhaps you guys are just bent that the almighty E55 has been dethroned. I would venture to say that all of Rocks mods cost more than Andy's tune - not to mention the fact that all those mods raise lots of eyebrows when it comes to warranty work. If you can't see the value there then I cannot help you.
Last edited by LZH; Oct 7, 2008 at 05:58 PM.
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that C63 was pulled by a stock Gallardo that only traps 118 MPH...... maybe Rock's car is having issues.....
When I look at what Andy has done with a tune alone compared to Rock's modified E55, I see lots of potential and VALUE. Rocks car should have walked all over the C63. Perhaps you guys are just bent that the almighty E55 has been dethroned. I would venture to say that all of Rocks mods cost more than Andy's tune - not to mention the fact that all those mods raise lots of eyebrows when it comes to warranty work. If you can't see the value there then I cannot help you.
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CL65
Rock Wrote:
"I reported that I could not pull on his car in the few seconds that we were both on the accelerator"
That's about as good of an example of a "dethroning" as "we must go into Iraq to get Al-Qaeda" is of the absolute truth.
"I reported that I could not pull on his car in the few seconds that we were both on the accelerator"
That's about as good of an example of a "dethroning" as "we must go into Iraq to get Al-Qaeda" is of the absolute truth.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
I'm very well aware of further internal motor mods (rotating assembly, top end work, etc) and blower upgrades, but you are talking BIG bucks compared to just a tune. And it's exactly THAT which you are missing. With all the money spent on Rocks car for mods, MHP's tune allowed the C63 to hang with it - as stated by Rock himself. That's impressive in my eyes, and, its a mod that is easily reversed if one should ever require a visit to the dealer for warranty work. Maybe instead of constantly engaging me simply for the sake of argument, you should let MHP tune your E55 and then report back here since your sole purpose here seems to revolve around how much one contributes.
there's no way i'm letting anyone tune my vehicle unless they can actually prove to me their tune is, first and foremost, safe...which is why i'm waiting for some data logging to show me timing info. and even if it is safe, i still need to know how much better it is than the rest to justify 2-4 times the cost over the competition. if andy could prove to me the tune is safe and wants to bring his equipment out here and do some back to back runs at firebird raceway, comparing his tune to mine...(it won't happen but) lets go! i have no problem taking my car down the strip to get some quality OBJECTIVE data to provide for everyone.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
so you're basing your entire conclusion on a very short set of uncontrolled runs done in traffic where even rock claims full speed potential was not realized? all i can say is that i guess your and my requirements for data are quite different...i prefer objective over subjective.
there's no way i'm letting anyone tune my vehicle unless they can actually prove to me their tune is, first and foremost, safe...which is why i'm waiting for some data logging to show me timing info. and even if it is safe, i still need to know how much better it is than the rest to justify 2-4 times the cost over the competition. if andy could prove to me the tune is safe and wants to bring his equipment out here and do some back to back runs at firebird raceway, comparing his tune to mine...(it won't happen but) lets go! i have no problem taking my car down the strip to get some quality OBJECTIVE data to provide for everyone.
there's no way i'm letting anyone tune my vehicle unless they can actually prove to me their tune is, first and foremost, safe...which is why i'm waiting for some data logging to show me timing info. and even if it is safe, i still need to know how much better it is than the rest to justify 2-4 times the cost over the competition. if andy could prove to me the tune is safe and wants to bring his equipment out here and do some back to back runs at firebird raceway, comparing his tune to mine...(it won't happen but) lets go! i have no problem taking my car down the strip to get some quality OBJECTIVE data to provide for everyone.
Last edited by LZH; Oct 7, 2008 at 06:36 PM.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
i was committed to attend until a few events recently squashed my play funds. right now it doesn't look good but there's still a slim chance i can work something out.
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CL65
Rock trapped 124.6 and Andy trapped 116.XX. How can you argue around that fact and bring the race between them as a stronger example of the difference/similarity between the two cars? Doesn't one most logically conclude, given all the facts, that the race between them is non-admissible as it wasn't performed to an extent which would yield notable results?
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'09 C63 AMG
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'09 C63 AMG
so you're basing your entire conclusion on a very short set of uncontrolled runs done in traffic where even rock claims full speed potential was not realized? all i can say is that i guess your and my requirements for data are quite different...i prefer objective over subjective.
there's no way i'm letting anyone tune my vehicle unless they can actually prove to me their tune is, first and foremost, safe...which is why i'm waiting for some data logging to show me timing info. and even if it is safe, i still need to know how much better it is than the rest to justify 2-4 times the cost over the competition. if andy could prove to me the tune is safe and wants to bring his equipment out here and do some back to back runs at firebird raceway, comparing his tune to mine...(it won't happen but) lets go! i have no problem taking my car down the strip to get some quality OBJECTIVE data to provide for everyone.
there's no way i'm letting anyone tune my vehicle unless they can actually prove to me their tune is, first and foremost, safe...which is why i'm waiting for some data logging to show me timing info. and even if it is safe, i still need to know how much better it is than the rest to justify 2-4 times the cost over the competition. if andy could prove to me the tune is safe and wants to bring his equipment out here and do some back to back runs at firebird raceway, comparing his tune to mine...(it won't happen but) lets go! i have no problem taking my car down the strip to get some quality OBJECTIVE data to provide for everyone.
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'09 C63 AMG
Rock trapped 124.6 and Andy trapped 116.XX. How can you argue around that fact and bring the race between them as a stronger example of the difference/similarity between the two cars? Doesn't one most logically conclude, given all the facts, that the race between them is non-admissible as it wasn't performed to an extent which would yield notable results?
Also keep in mind that Rock's made more than 1 pass to net that 124.6, I only got to make one and bogged. More data coming this Friday. I think Rock's going to be there as well.
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'09 C63 AMG
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
To reiterate the biggest problem with 63s is the lack of low end/midrange opposed to a 55/65. Once we're out of first gear (or at least in the powerband in first gear) things even out pretty quickly especially considering the closer ratios of the 7A. That being said I don't think LZH is saying my car would definitely beat Rock's in the quarter, but I know for a fact it can hang from 50-130 (which in my mind is a pretty good spread) which says a lot for a N/A motor with just filters/tuning. Would you agree to that?
Also keep in mind that Rock's made more than 1 pass to net that 124.6, I only got to make one and bogged. More data coming this Friday. I think Rock's going to be there as well.
Also keep in mind that Rock's made more than 1 pass to net that 124.6, I only got to make one and bogged. More data coming this Friday. I think Rock's going to be there as well.
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'09 C63 AMG
Next time I'll be sure to hit 180 just for you.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
...These were short impromptu runs in traffic and not in a controlled environment. I reported that I could not pull on his car in the few seconds that we were both on the accelerator and that his car was very fast. Our trap speed discrepancy was not realized during our encounter...
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CL65
To reiterate the biggest problem with 63s is the lack of low end/midrange opposed to a 55/65. Once we're out of first gear (or at least in the powerband in first gear) things even out pretty quickly especially considering the closer ratios of the 7A. That being said I don't think LZH is saying my car would definitely beat Rock's in the quarter, but I know for a fact it can hang from 50-130 (which in my mind is a pretty good spread) which says a lot for a N/A motor with just filters/tuning. Would you agree to that?
Also keep in mind that Rock's made more than 1 pass to net that 124.6, I only got to make one and bogged. More data coming this Friday. I think Rock's going to be there as well.
Also keep in mind that Rock's made more than 1 pass to net that 124.6, I only got to make one and bogged. More data coming this Friday. I think Rock's going to be there as well.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
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Okay, so it seems that this argument can keep going back and forth almost indefinitely........ until of course more data is introduced. Andy, this time try to make at least 4 to 5 runs, so we have more data to analyze and reference. In the mean time, I think it's fair to at least agree that Andy's tune looks very strong. Rock (who is highly respected here on the boards) seems to think that the car held it's grounds fairly well and videos of the Gellardo and shift points, along with dynos seem to confirm that Andy's C63 indeed has become a stronger, faster, and "fresher" car.
It'd be interesting if we can find a way to measure shift speeds on a stock car, then again after a tuned version to see how fast shift speeds have improved after the tune (especially after minimizing the always slow adaptations).
It'd be interesting if we can find a way to measure shift speeds on a stock car, then again after a tuned version to see how fast shift speeds have improved after the tune (especially after minimizing the always slow adaptations).
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the point is, you lost, the Gallardo isn't trapping 120, and neither are you....
and from a dig? I'm sure you would "instantly" take a Gallardo by two car lengths from a dig like you said..... You would have ZERO chance if the Gallardo really ran you like it could, nice video here:
http://www.dragtimes.com/video-viewer.php?v=RycA3jNFQb8
please, please tell everyone that you would have beat him by 2 car lengths from a real dig.....
and from a dig? I'm sure you would "instantly" take a Gallardo by two car lengths from a dig like you said..... You would have ZERO chance if the Gallardo really ran you like it could, nice video here:
http://www.dragtimes.com/video-viewer.php?v=RycA3jNFQb8
please, please tell everyone that you would have beat him by 2 car lengths from a real dig.....
, Just kidding fellas, relax before I get the book thrown at me....
