Thread for those Banned by MHP
10-01-2008, 02:00 PM
#52
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Thread Starter
10-01-2008, 02:41 PM
#54
Super Member
Wow...you really need to be educated in a bunch of areas...or you just can't let your anger go to think rationally.... Ok the mathematical equation for torque is as follows:
TQ = (HP X 5252)/RPM
Let's see what the graph gives us...the VRP and RENNtech ones not the mythical MHP one... give hp over speed. Well, guess what.. VRP used an SL65...it has the same engine, same transmission, same gear ratios as the CL65 I drive. I was able to go out and use the same gear that the dyno was done in and mark the speeds on my speedometer and through my G-tech pro (which measures the tach signal as calibrated through my lighter) and compare the relative RPM at such speed. From this information, I was able to plot the relative RPMs against the dyno information. I then was able to use the above formula to calculate an estimated torque figure. Now if you read what I said.. I said "interpolate"...I have attached the wikipedia definition for "interpolation". If you read it, you will see that it is not exactly precise... but it will give you a good enough picture...especially when you can compare the results against a stock baseline dyno ...which was also provided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation
Andy...talk about something for nothing... I am sorry...no more free lessons for you. If you want anymore of an "education" from me I will have to start charging you ($500/hr). Sorry...
Tom
TQ = (HP X 5252)/RPM
Let's see what the graph gives us...the VRP and RENNtech ones not the mythical MHP one... give hp over speed. Well, guess what.. VRP used an SL65...it has the same engine, same transmission, same gear ratios as the CL65 I drive. I was able to go out and use the same gear that the dyno was done in and mark the speeds on my speedometer and through my G-tech pro (which measures the tach signal as calibrated through my lighter) and compare the relative RPM at such speed. From this information, I was able to plot the relative RPMs against the dyno information. I then was able to use the above formula to calculate an estimated torque figure. Now if you read what I said.. I said "interpolate"...I have attached the wikipedia definition for "interpolation". If you read it, you will see that it is not exactly precise... but it will give you a good enough picture...especially when you can compare the results against a stock baseline dyno ...which was also provided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation
Andy...talk about something for nothing... I am sorry...no more free lessons for you. If you want anymore of an "education" from me I will have to start charging you ($500/hr). Sorry...
Tom
, F***IN HILARIOUS
Tom you RULE
.
10-01-2008, 02:42 PM
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Another dyno showing an SL65 before and after a Kleemann tune:
This one once again doesn't show a massive increase in peak power...just a steady increase above 3K rpms but is pretty much maintained through redline.
Tom
This one once again doesn't show a massive increase in peak power...just a steady increase above 3K rpms but is pretty much maintained through redline.
Tom
Last edited by TMC M5; 10-01-2008 at 02:45 PM.
10-01-2008, 03:32 PM
#58
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Last edited by LZH; 10-01-2008 at 03:37 PM.
10-01-2008, 03:41 PM
#59
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Have a nice day!
Tom
10-01-2008, 03:43 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Here is an idea...instead of counting the views in this post...go and help someone find a stock 630rwhp dyno and a tuned 690rwhp dyno.....
Tom
10-01-2008, 03:47 PM
#61
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'09 C63 AMG
Wow...you really need to be educated in a bunch of areas...or you just can't let your anger go to think rationally.... Ok the mathematical equation for torque is as follows:
TQ = (HP X 5252)/RPM
Let's see what the graph gives us...the VRP and RENNtech ones not the mythical MHP one... give hp over speed. Well, guess what.. VRP used an SL65...it has the same engine, same transmission, same gear ratios as the CL65 I drive. I was able to go out and use the same gear that the dyno was done in and mark the speeds on my speedometer and through my G-tech pro (which measures the tach signal as calibrated through my lighter) and compare the relative RPM at such speed. From this information, I was able to plot the relative RPMs against the dyno information. I then was able to use the above formula to calculate an estimated torque figure. Now if you read what I said.. I said "interpolate"...I have attached the wikipedia definition for "interpolation". If you read it, you will see that it is not exactly precise... but it will give you a good enough picture...especially when you can compare the results against a stock baseline dyno ...which was also provided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation
Andy...talk about something for nothing... I am sorry...no more free lessons for you. If you want anymore of an "education" from me I will have to start charging you ($500/hr). Sorry...
Tom
TQ = (HP X 5252)/RPM
Let's see what the graph gives us...the VRP and RENNtech ones not the mythical MHP one... give hp over speed. Well, guess what.. VRP used an SL65...it has the same engine, same transmission, same gear ratios as the CL65 I drive. I was able to go out and use the same gear that the dyno was done in and mark the speeds on my speedometer and through my G-tech pro (which measures the tach signal as calibrated through my lighter) and compare the relative RPM at such speed. From this information, I was able to plot the relative RPMs against the dyno information. I then was able to use the above formula to calculate an estimated torque figure. Now if you read what I said.. I said "interpolate"...I have attached the wikipedia definition for "interpolation". If you read it, you will see that it is not exactly precise... but it will give you a good enough picture...especially when you can compare the results against a stock baseline dyno ...which was also provided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation
Andy...talk about something for nothing... I am sorry...no more free lessons for you. If you want anymore of an "education" from me I will have to start charging you ($500/hr). Sorry...
Tom
10-01-2008, 03:50 PM
#62
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10-01-2008, 03:57 PM
#63
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
# of view is an accurate gauge of interest by others....I predict you won't have any but then again every time I post it helps you so this will be my last message here. And I'm not a "fanboy" - just someone who is interested in a new product as are many others. One question....so when Andy DOES post the 65 dyno sheets, will you apologize and eat crow ?
10-01-2008, 04:01 PM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
# of view is an accurate gauge of interest by others....I predict you won't have any but then again every time I post it helps you so this will be my last message here. And I'm not a "fanboy" - just someone who is interested in a new product as are many others. One question....so when Andy DOES post the 65 dyno sheets, will you apologize and eat crow ?
Tom
10-01-2008, 04:25 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
From Kleemann's website:
KLEEMANN Tuning for V12 N/A and Biturbo Engines
Biturbo - Incredible power
V12 6.0 Normally Aspirated
For the 6.0l engine of the CL 600 and S 600, built before September 2002, KLEEMANN offers an ECU upgrade for additional 25 HP and 50 Nm (37 lb-ft) of torque.
V12 5.5 Biturbo
For the 5.5 litre Mercedes-Benz and Maybach V12-engine with Biturbo, KLEEMANN offers a two stage tuning programme with power upgrades on 50 Hp and 127 Hp respectively.
The KLEEMANN Stage 1 kit consists of a custom-made ECU programme that increases power by 50 Hp and 150 Nm (111 lb-ft).
Stage 2 features the custom-made ECU programme and an electronic reprogramming of the five speed automatic transmission. Performance of the Stage II KLEEMANN kit speaks volumes with 627 Hp and 1.043 Nm (772 lb-ft) of peak torque.
The KLEEMANN Biturbo performance kit is available for the following models: SL (R230), S-Class (W220), CL (CL215) and the Maybach 57/62. Below you can see the specifications for the tuning stages of both the 5.5 litre engine and the 6.0 litre engine.
V12 6.0 65 AMG Biturbo
For the powerful 6.0 litre V12 AMG engine KLEEMANN offers an ECU upgrade programme that adds 127 Hp and 300 Nm (222 lb-ft) to the car's already incredible power output. The additional power is available in the midrange of the rev scale (2000-4000 rpm). Peak values are 690 HP and 1120 Nm of torque. The ECU performance kit is available for the SL 65 AMG, CL 65 AMG and the S 65 AMG.
For the 65 engine they are saying a peak 127hp which seems a little high compared to the actual dynos.
Tom
KLEEMANN Tuning for V12 N/A and Biturbo Engines
Biturbo - Incredible power
V12 6.0 Normally Aspirated
For the 6.0l engine of the CL 600 and S 600, built before September 2002, KLEEMANN offers an ECU upgrade for additional 25 HP and 50 Nm (37 lb-ft) of torque.
V12 5.5 Biturbo
For the 5.5 litre Mercedes-Benz and Maybach V12-engine with Biturbo, KLEEMANN offers a two stage tuning programme with power upgrades on 50 Hp and 127 Hp respectively.
The KLEEMANN Stage 1 kit consists of a custom-made ECU programme that increases power by 50 Hp and 150 Nm (111 lb-ft).
Stage 2 features the custom-made ECU programme and an electronic reprogramming of the five speed automatic transmission. Performance of the Stage II KLEEMANN kit speaks volumes with 627 Hp and 1.043 Nm (772 lb-ft) of peak torque.
The KLEEMANN Biturbo performance kit is available for the following models: SL (R230), S-Class (W220), CL (CL215) and the Maybach 57/62. Below you can see the specifications for the tuning stages of both the 5.5 litre engine and the 6.0 litre engine.
V12 6.0 65 AMG Biturbo
For the powerful 6.0 litre V12 AMG engine KLEEMANN offers an ECU upgrade programme that adds 127 Hp and 300 Nm (222 lb-ft) to the car's already incredible power output. The additional power is available in the midrange of the rev scale (2000-4000 rpm). Peak values are 690 HP and 1120 Nm of torque. The ECU performance kit is available for the SL 65 AMG, CL 65 AMG and the S 65 AMG.
For the 65 engine they are saying a peak 127hp which seems a little high compared to the actual dynos.
Tom
10-01-2008, 04:25 PM
#66
Senior Member
The views in that thread are mostly based on the three ring drama circus that it's become. I'm not buying any MHP products; I've already got Kleemann & I'm happy. Certainly happy enough that I'm not going to re-spend money to start over right now. I've read out of interest in new products, but face it, there is about a 3% - 97% ratio of actual information to crap coming from both sides. I read it now because it's a train wreck & I like to watch. I'm sure I'm with the majority on who is actually viewing that thing.
I have nothing against MHP, I wish them well. However, they are the "new guys" to MB Tuning & they seem to expect everyone to give them the utmost respect on being "the best". What is the sampling number of success? 2 for 2? 5 for 5? Get in the hundreds then it's "proven". Frankly, right now it's not proven, nor will it be for years. "The Best" is a combination of performance, customer service, reliability & remaining in business. I do doubt that they are the only group in the entire world that has "cracked" all of MB's mysteries; why is it so crazy to imagine that others have done the same, but for various reasons (marketability, reliability, cost effectiveness, etc.) have not?
To take a half cheap shot at Andy, I wonder how they're so damn good & can come up with all this stuff, when he's spending a silly amount of time on here.
Honestly now, how many F-cars, P-cars, Bentleys & Lambos have they possibly tuned? I do wish them well, but alot of this comes off as ego-stroking. Proven? I doubt it.
I have nothing against MHP, I wish them well. However, they are the "new guys" to MB Tuning & they seem to expect everyone to give them the utmost respect on being "the best". What is the sampling number of success? 2 for 2? 5 for 5? Get in the hundreds then it's "proven". Frankly, right now it's not proven, nor will it be for years. "The Best" is a combination of performance, customer service, reliability & remaining in business. I do doubt that they are the only group in the entire world that has "cracked" all of MB's mysteries; why is it so crazy to imagine that others have done the same, but for various reasons (marketability, reliability, cost effectiveness, etc.) have not?
To take a half cheap shot at Andy, I wonder how they're so damn good & can come up with all this stuff, when he's spending a silly amount of time on here.
Originally Posted by MHP
Yes, we offer complete driveline tuning for any MB/AMG, Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Bimmer, VW, Mini, Audi, Bentley, Aston, etc.
10-01-2008, 04:28 PM
#67
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'09 C63 AMG
The views in that thread are mostly based on the three ring drama circus that it's become. I'm not buying any MHP products; I've already got Kleemann & I'm happy. Certainly happy enough that I'm not going to re-spend money to start over right now. I've read out of interest in new products, but face it, there is about a 3% - 97% ratio of actual information to crap coming from both sides. I read it now because it's a train wreck & I like to watch. I'm sure I'm with the majority on who is actually viewing that thing.
I have nothing against MHP, I wish them well. However, they are the "new guys" to MB Tuning & they seem to expect everyone to give them the utmost respect on being "the best". What is the sampling number of success? 2 for 2? 5 for 5? Get in the hundreds then it's "proven". Frankly, right now it's not proven, nor will it be for years. "The Best" is a combination of performance, customer service, reliability & remaining in business. I do doubt that they are the only group in the entire world that has "cracked" all of MB's mysteries; why is it so crazy to imagine that others have done the same, but for various reasons (marketability, reliability, cost effectiveness, etc.) have not?
To take a half cheap shot at Andy, I wonder how they're so damn good & can come up with all this stuff, when he's spending a silly amount of time on here. Honestly now, how many F-cars, P-cars, Bentleys & Lambos have they possibly tuned? I do wish them well, but alot of this comes off as ego-stroking. Proven? I doubt it.
I have nothing against MHP, I wish them well. However, they are the "new guys" to MB Tuning & they seem to expect everyone to give them the utmost respect on being "the best". What is the sampling number of success? 2 for 2? 5 for 5? Get in the hundreds then it's "proven". Frankly, right now it's not proven, nor will it be for years. "The Best" is a combination of performance, customer service, reliability & remaining in business. I do doubt that they are the only group in the entire world that has "cracked" all of MB's mysteries; why is it so crazy to imagine that others have done the same, but for various reasons (marketability, reliability, cost effectiveness, etc.) have not?
To take a half cheap shot at Andy, I wonder how they're so damn good & can come up with all this stuff, when he's spending a silly amount of time on here. Honestly now, how many F-cars, P-cars, Bentleys & Lambos have they possibly tuned? I do wish them well, but alot of this comes off as ego-stroking. Proven? I doubt it.
10-01-2008, 04:30 PM
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
Curiosity has me peeked. Tom is posting a lot of figures, and pics to back him up. Has MHP posted anything to show true dyno's?
10-01-2008, 04:35 PM
#69
MBWorld Fanatic!
The views in that thread are mostly based on the three ring drama circus that it's become. I'm not buying any MHP products; I've already got Kleemann & I'm happy. Certainly happy enough that I'm not going to re-spend money to start over right now. I've read out of interest in new products, but face it, there is about a 3% - 97% ratio of actual information to crap coming from both sides. I read it now because it's a train wreck & I like to watch. I'm sure I'm with the majority on who is actually viewing that thing.
I have nothing against MHP, I wish them well. However, they are the "new guys" to MB Tuning & they seem to expect everyone to give them the utmost respect on being "the best". What is the sampling number of success? 2 for 2? 5 for 5? Get in the hundreds then it's "proven". Frankly, right now it's not proven, nor will it be for years. "The Best" is a combination of performance, customer service, reliability & remaining in business. I do doubt that they are the only group in the entire world that has "cracked" all of MB's mysteries; why is it so crazy to imagine that others have done the same, but for various reasons (marketability, reliability, cost effectiveness, etc.) have not?
To take a half cheap shot at Andy, I wonder how they're so damn good & can come up with all this stuff, when he's spending a silly amount of time on here. Honestly now, how many F-cars, P-cars, Bentleys & Lambos have they possibly tuned? I do wish them well, but alot of this comes off as ego-stroking. Proven? I doubt it.
I have nothing against MHP, I wish them well. However, they are the "new guys" to MB Tuning & they seem to expect everyone to give them the utmost respect on being "the best". What is the sampling number of success? 2 for 2? 5 for 5? Get in the hundreds then it's "proven". Frankly, right now it's not proven, nor will it be for years. "The Best" is a combination of performance, customer service, reliability & remaining in business. I do doubt that they are the only group in the entire world that has "cracked" all of MB's mysteries; why is it so crazy to imagine that others have done the same, but for various reasons (marketability, reliability, cost effectiveness, etc.) have not?
To take a half cheap shot at Andy, I wonder how they're so damn good & can come up with all this stuff, when he's spending a silly amount of time on here. Honestly now, how many F-cars, P-cars, Bentleys & Lambos have they possibly tuned? I do wish them well, but alot of this comes off as ego-stroking. Proven? I doubt it.
Good post btw.
10-01-2008, 04:35 PM
#70
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'09 C63 AMG
Search my username and you'll find more info than the competition has posted including track and race vids, timeslips, dyno graphs, and testimony from other mbworld.org members that have sampled our tuning.
We have the quickest/fastest C63 in the world on a 1.97 60' on drag radials with just tuning/filters. Going back to the track this Friday to test v2 tuning.
We have results otw from a stock E55 and a Stage 4 E55 as well as a CL65. Followed by data from two CLK 63 BSs (maybe 3 depending on whether or not the third owner is going to track test for us).
Thanks
Andy
10-01-2008, 04:37 PM
#71
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'09 C63 AMG
10-01-2008, 04:37 PM
#72
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Which ones...the one which shows 630rwhp by a stock S65 and 690rwhp tuned? The answer is absolutely.... NO!!! What crow will there be to eat? He doesn't deny those figures and I don't deny that there exists a dyno with those #'s...my beef is well documented in the super-duper popular thread go re-read it. I am looking for another tuner here and posting all the actual dynos out there...not sure what you are "interpreting" from my posts.
Tom
Tom
The dynos you have posted are very similar in power ranges wether it be Renntech or Kleemann they are in vicinity. Good stuff.
10-01-2008, 04:38 PM
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
I will take a look. Do you do anything with NA MB's?
10-01-2008, 04:41 PM
#74
Senior Member
Honestly, I'm glad! I do hope you do well, I really do. I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm not saying you can't or won't have the best, but you know that it doesn't happen overnight.
You're excited about your stuff, so you post about it & defend it. The problem is that many members here have been burned by "tuners" who came off just like you do. You get to pay for others "crimes". After MIR, we'll have much better picture of whats going on at MHP, until then it's mostly just escalating BS that doesn't really help the community. Next year, when you've got tunes out there with real miles & use on them; then we'll really know.
You're excited about your stuff, so you post about it & defend it. The problem is that many members here have been burned by "tuners" who came off just like you do. You get to pay for others "crimes". After MIR, we'll have much better picture of whats going on at MHP, until then it's mostly just escalating BS that doesn't really help the community. Next year, when you've got tunes out there with real miles & use on them; then we'll really know.
10-01-2008, 04:44 PM
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
From the RENNtech website:
CL65 AMG
604 HP @ 5500 RPM; 738 LB-FT @ 2000-3000 RPM
ENGINE PERFORMANCE UPGRADES
1. RENNTECH PKG1
ECU and transmission computer upgrade
670 HP @ 5500 RPM; 840 LB-FT @ 3500 RPM
542150051
$5800
2. RENNTECH PKG2
ECU, TCU, and carbon fiber (cf) airbox
685 HP @ 5500 RPM; 870 LB-FT @ 2000-3000 RPM
542150052
$10950
3. Intercooler pump upgrade
542150009
$3995
Kind of expensive...but they seem relatively cheap compared to other tuners out there....
Tom
CL65 AMG
604 HP @ 5500 RPM; 738 LB-FT @ 2000-3000 RPM
ENGINE PERFORMANCE UPGRADES
1. RENNTECH PKG1
ECU and transmission computer upgrade
670 HP @ 5500 RPM; 840 LB-FT @ 3500 RPM
542150051
$5800
2. RENNTECH PKG2
ECU, TCU, and carbon fiber (cf) airbox
685 HP @ 5500 RPM; 870 LB-FT @ 2000-3000 RPM
542150052
$10950
3. Intercooler pump upgrade
542150009
$3995
Kind of expensive...but they seem relatively cheap compared to other tuners out there....
Tom
