juicee63

LOL , actually this fryer oil is cool, my car smells great and it will be like cooking chicken fritters as I travel down the 1/4 mile track. Chicken Fritters in , Chicken Fritters out, cooking not dissimilar from deep frying my opposition, swallowing digesting then having another

jrcart

Rick did you sign up for Willow yet?

...you know what's a real kick in the sack is that fact that my bad/slow passes are quicker than your great passes ....I'm just sayin


You guys do know it's going to rain on the 17th right? I have jinxed every MB World event I have tried to attend this year, I'm 5-for-5, from a Cars and Coffee event to a road course event to 3 drag meets, every one of them got rained out. You guys could plan an event in friggin Death Valley in July and if I put my name on the attendee list it would get rained out.

rarfinancial

good one Jim..LOL I gotta find some wheels and tires for willow. I will sign up anyways

juicee63

Rick I have the perfect set up 4 you for willow. Pm me. Maybe we can work something out

sticky2

I was obviously joking as I clearly am not in tune with the going rates for hookers. What would you advise me opening to drink with the hooker? Perhaps a '96 Krug paired with Ossetra? Maybe my '47 Cheval-Blanc or '82 Mouton? How much do I need to spend on the hooker before she will even be able to pronounce Mouton-Rothschild?

sticky2

As long as there isn't a bottle in the baby seat, I'm looking forward to it

Although a 135 is not exactly the same thing as a 335... I don't give the 335 guys a hard time, having to settle for a 335 is tough enough.

jrcart

I know you where kidding...but with economy the hooks might even be feeling the pinch, you might be able to get a 2 girls for 1 special or something

sgtstanko

Its always clean at this time of year......you dont want to show up after April!


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Jon@BMS

The 335 is a little quicker in the 1/4 than the 135. It's 120# heavier, but has dual exhaust, and better suspension for launching. I ran 11.8 at only 115mph in our 335 w/ ~390rwhp but it took 422rwhp and 118-120mph traps to run 11.8 in the 135. But I hope to go a lot quicker on the 17th! I'll leave the bottles at home in the sanitizer where they belong.

The M3 is a nice car for the money (+10-15k more than a 335) but the problem is the lack of modifications for it. Hopefully AA will release that supercharger kit soon and level the playing field!

sticky2

There is no problem with the M3, what lack of modifications?

ESS already hit 600 wheel on pump with 8 PSI with their supercharger and they are doing their durability testing before the release.

VF has had their supercharger in development.

AA has had their supercharger in development.

The car has forged internals and at least has a limited slip. What lack of mods? It is set up better for mods from the factory.

I hit 12.1 my first time out with what, minor bolt on's on a 100 hp per liter naturally aspirated motor?

A supercharger won't level the playing field, the M3 will be playing in a different league. I'll be hitting 11's before the supercharger, sounds like the M3 responds fine to mods.

MB_Forever

I just received a notification from the track account saying that somebody sent payment with no information what so every????? All I have is an e-mail address? It came from:

dmcdono@earthlink.net

Guys, please send the following information in the comments section when ever you send your payment (unless you were one of the people that joined us last time):

1) Full Name on Driver License (for verification purposes at the track)
2) Username and at which forum you belong
3) Car Make/Model/Color
4) Extra contact info in case we need to get hold of you for last minute updates.

Thanks.....

sticky2

If you already have our contact info from last time would you prefer to have it again, or do you not need it?

MB_Forever

If the contact information is the same as it was last time (no changes), then I don't need it again. The only reason I need that info is in case of last minute updates; sometimes something will come up where I need to get hold of the person in a faster way than posting and waiting for him/her to check out the post. Last time out, we had so many last minute updates due to weather and what not that it was essential to get hold of all the participants quickly, especially the ones coming from far away.

sgtstanko

It belongs to Dave a friend of mine with the other SRT8 Jeep. I'll pm you his information.

Jeep guys cant follow directions....

.

sticky2

Makes complete sense to me, thanks.

Edit: Payment sent, let me know if you need any other info.

Jon@BMS

You may have hit 12.19 with the drag radials, race gas, gears, etc, after a string of mid 12 second runs but that appears to be a lot better than average. At least from what I've seen with them. I generally tell customers if you want something close to stock with good road race potential go the M3 route, but if you want to really tune something and modify it the 335i is a much better platform. The M3 supercharger kits may change that but we'll have to see how reliable they are, what the cost is, etc. It generally means no factory warranty and most are afraid of that.

sticky2

BMW has been cracking down on N54's that are tuned, how do you maintain the warranty if tuning? If you blow a turbo or the motor, good luck.

Did you hit 11's your first time? What exactly is your experience launching DCT again?

If you want to modify something for serious power, the M3 is the better platform which is why I got it. Take a look at the S54 sometime if you want to see BMW's with some serious power. 400 wheel is kids stuff in comparison.

To get the N54 to the level that supercharged M3's are going to be at is not going to be possible. Certainly not for 12k, there goes the 335's bang for the buck out window.

Loss of factory warranty does not affect an M3 owner the same way as it would a 335 owner. Most 335's are leased and M3 owners tend to know you need to pay to play. Look at the forced induction forum on M3forum.net some time, lack of warranty hasn't phased anyone, goes for the N54 as well.

I did not have gears when I ran, has a 335 or 135 hit 11's on pump? Or does it take race gas, drag radials, etc.?

Better than average? A guy in Florida is running 12.3@115 on street tires with a filter and muffler. On pump gas... Can an N54 do that? The manual is better for launching at the strip.

You should advise your customers based on their disposable income. If they have it to mod, they should get the M3 and not look back.

Jon@BMS

There isn't much sense in getting in to this here, but the M3 isn't exactly a high purchase price car. If M3 owners really had money they would get an AMG!

hotrod182

You have got to be kidding me! Who are you trying to fool. If the M3 was faster, I would have one sitting in my driveway right now. I have driven a few of them, and quite frankly, the acceleration/torque down low leaves a lot to be desired. It will never compare to a 335i/AMG in that department, thats just the M philosophy, take it or leave it. When it came time to get a new BMW, it didn't take long at all to decide to pick the 335i AGAIN. Even stock the 335i makes 300Lbs at 1400 rpm. The M3 doesn't even make that at its peak! And there is a big difference between taking 30 minutes to install a tune and turn a 335i into an 11 second car with tires and gas. And yes, with 93 pump gas, a tuned 335i can run low 12's no problem at all!

As far as supercharging? The steel block of the S54 was heavier than your V8, but that is also why it is so beefy for FI applications. As far as your block limits, who knows? And yes, you can spend an extra 10 grand on a supercharger, and I bet your low end torque in 90% of your every day driving still wont come close to a tuned 335i. If you like the feel of acceleration, and being pushed back in your seat, you should know if your car can accelerate to 60 mph in about 4 seconds, just hitting the next 60 mph will take you double that. So bottom line is you will develop more acceleration down low, and while you can redline your car and snap off shifts and look silly doing it in everday traffic, the 335i/AMGs will do it without even breathing hard. The 335i will also get much better gas mileage when cruising around compared to your M3.

And perhaps you bought your car so you can race a Willow Springs, or Laguna Seca, if so, then the M3 will be the more durable platform. But on the street, I will beat a hundred M3s before I come across my first supercharged one to race. And if you are talking about being scrutinized by the community for your drag strip run. You are the one that posted the results, so why complain about it?

Oh, and by the way, I have given many drivers in the Lotus Club all they could handle running in my 335i. So if you want to run the canyons out here, just let me know. I can take a video of you trying to leave me in your wake!

sticky2

Right, because a C63 AMG is in some different pricing land? Maybe people have more than one car as well?

Maybe the M3 is the best overall car at its price? Even the AMG guys can swallow their pride and admit they don't have DCT and that the only car that is going to offer a similar all around driving experience, namely handling, would be the CLK63 BS.

sticky2

The S54 is lighter than the S65, you don't know what you are talking about.

If the M3 was faster? It is faster. You have to mod the 335 to reach the M3. Once you mod the M3, it isn't a discusison which is faster. The only reason to get the 335 is if money for the car or mods is an issue. Why aren't you coming out to the drag day again? Didn't you say something about 250 dollars being a lot for you to pay? I think that answers my question.

If torque down low is what you want, get a different car. Someone knows exactly what they are getting with a GT3, F430, or M3. All benchmarks BTW, and all cars I would choose over something with far more torque.

Could care less about gas mileage, that is for people counting their pennies or in 335's apparently.

You don't even realize that too much torque down low is a detriment and the M3 with the power up top can put its power down better. Not to mention the power builds in a nice, linear, progressive fashion. Not interested in turbos, thanks, if I wanted that I would be in a 911 turbo. A simple change to shorter gearing will give someone the punch they need. There is a difference between feeling quick and being quick.

Show me these pump 335's running low 12's.

Power is a function of torque, apparently you don't understand the multiplication with revs. When F1 was NA, the cars made huge power due to the revs, not the torque.

On the street, I will beat a 100 335's before I come across one with race gas and drag radials which it will need just to be somewhere near me. That isn't the point, the point is which platform can make more power with mods, and that is the M3, PERIOD.

If you are keeping up with something like an Elise through the canyons in a 335, the reason is the guy behind the wheel of the lotus, not the 335 being as capable.

My point is not about being scrutinized, but that you are judging the M3 potential based on one run. Hope that sinks in. Can't wait for the supercharger so I can laugh at what a joke this talk of modding the m3 vs. 335 was.

hotrod182

I hear the 7 speed, "speed shift" trans of the Merc is pretty good, and in some tests, was even preferred over the DCT.

And in the track tests, the cars were close enough, that any decent driver would probably beat you in your M3 with a C63. Heck, I think I can beat you in my lowly 335i through the canyons whenever you want to do it. Unless you gain another 20 hp, I know I can beat you at the drag strip. Of course your probably too inexperienced to know that a few mph is not just going to magically appear in your car. Gearing/traction/etc has a lot less to do with MPH than you would expect.

Are you not a "capable driver", why don't you see how fast you can leave my little 3.0L 335i BMW??

As far as your aversion to turbos? Well I guess you know better than the BMW M-Engineers, as they are actively planning on turbocharging the next M3.

BMW was so proud of the fact that the V8 is lighter than the S54, how in the world did you miss that one, among other facts.

I'm afraid there will be a lot more videos of 335i BMWs beating M3s before it changes the other way around. Modded M3 vs Modded 335i? Your car has way more mods than mine, and you would still need a good 25hp to keep up with me.

A 30 minute mod to a 335i to make it beat your car is simple and common. With your childish philosophy of it taking an "aftermarket compressor" to beat a 335, lets just put a JATO rocket engine on the 335i to make it beat your supercharged M3??? Such a stupid sense of reasoning that you display.

You don't care about torque? Why don't you just drive around an Indy Car. Very quick, no torque, and not very drivable around town without making yourself look like an *** for trying. If you like the feeling of acceleration, then torque will press you back in the seat, without even putting up an effort. If you don't care about the feeling of acceleration and just like to be fast, well you failed at that, because you barely did better than a 12.2. That is nothing. I wouldn't even post a 12.2 if I did that bad now. So what is it that your after? Prestige or something? Can't tell you how fun it is to beat a M3 running through the gears at redline, when I just simply, and easily shoot away in one thrust of acceleration. And if you really speed, and aren't just a posseur, then being low key is just the ticket sometimes. Quite frankly, I'm have been tempted to take off my 335i badge and put on a 325i badge. I guess i'm the exact opposite of you.

And cost? I asked about them opening up more slots at the Famoso event. Instead I went to Sacramento. Do you really think making that 800 mile trip when you consider, time, food, gas, etc, is really any "cheaper" than going to Famoso?

I don't think you are so rich money doesn't matter to you at all, but sinced I have lost about $700,000 in equity in my houses in just a couple of years, how about buying me a proper set of DRs so I can kick your butt in every one of my BMWs!

Its going to be fun watching Terry kick your butt with his stock turbos. And the funning thing is, there is nothing you can do about it, aside from getting Nitrous or a supercharger. I'm sure you have $10,000 to throw away on a supercharger, but then you would be "expected" to beat a lowly 135i, wouldn't you?

sticky2

So you are going by tests now as to what transmission is preferred? If you go by mag tests, the M3 wins everything, no contest. Read those magazines some time.

The point is DCT if one wants it is not available in the Merc. Also, although an auto might feel nice DCT simply is the fastest shifting technology. This is not opinion, but fact.

Am I a capable driver? Absolutely, and the M3 is a far more capable car around a road course. Stick to arguments you at least have some kind of a shot at.

I know exactly what BMW said about going to turbos, thanks. I'm not driving the next generation M3 am I? I'm driving the current one. I am eagerly anticipating what BMW does and will be watching closely, trust me.

Funny, every 335 I run into I dust easily. I have my own videos showing what happens when a 335 owner lets that little torque increase go to his head.

You mentioned the block of the S54. If we are talking about the entire motor, the S65 is 15 kg lighter. If going by the block itself the figures I go by have it as lighter. Try being more specific.

Oh, a 30 minute mod huh? So, the cheaper and faster the better? Vodka will get me drunk much more quickly and more cheaply than a fine wine, that must make Vodka better right?

Tell me, what will it take for an N54 to make 600 wheel on pump? Can it? The M3 has already done it in less than a year of being on the market, case closed, its over, move on.

300 pound-feet is plenty of torque for driving around. Am I towing a school bus behind me? Who cares? The power is all up top, that is the way the motor is. Even with less torque and without turbos I would smack your car down, straightline, road course, doesn't matter.

Funny, what you are saying about cost here is not what you said on e90post. Maybe you need to check again?

You are bragging about how much money you lost? That is sad. My real estate investments make money, they don't lose it. That might be why I don't have to settle for a 335.

I have the resources to obliterate any 335 that ever wants to step up from here to eternity. You are somehow bragging about a forced induction motor vs. a naturally aspirated one? Tell me, what would it do without the turbos? The s65 is an engineering masterpiece, the N54 is just a cheap motor with cast internals for the cheaper demographic it targets, like you. You simply are beneath the level of understanding to appreciate it. That is what separates a connoisseur from the rest. Tell those guys who buy an F430 instead of a ZR-1 the mistake they are making.

It is going to be fun watching me open the eyes of ignorant people who go by paper torque figures as to what the M3 can do. If Terry wants, he can meet me on a road course as well, but we all know the N54's are one trick pony's.

hotrod182

I hope you are kidding me, LOL. First of all the block of the S54 IS THE REASON why the engine is heavier. What kind of sources have you been going by?

Thats great that you are making money on your real estate investments, they must be abnormal just like your claims.

As far as me having to "settle" for a 335i? If you can read, I already told you that was my preference. There is not much price difference between the 2 in my opinion. Heck even my 05 M3 Vert was over $65K, and the 06 $61K. That is not much difference from $70K, and if you paid much more than that in today's market, I guess that justs shows what poor financial decisions you are capable of making.

What do you mean you will beat me on the straights, turns, whatever. You haven't even matched my time yet, and I already invited you to show me your "cornering prowess".

What would the smaller N54 engine do without turbos? I guess it wouldn't obliterate your car engine down low on the torque curve.

The N54 engine is a cheap piece of engineering? Lets think about this:

The N54 is the one that one the "International Engine of the Year Award" two years in a row.

The N54 is the engine that was just voted by Wards as one of the 10 best engines. So was the diesel version. And yes, your M3 engine was not on that list.

So who to believe, yours? Or the opinions of the professional automotive journalists? Hmmmm....tough choice.

The M3 engine while nice, is not revolutionary. In fact, on a side by side comparison with the RS4 engine, they were remarkably close. But of course the RS4 has DI, just as the N54 twin turbo does.

The more you talk, the more uneducated you seem, and the less facts you seem to back up your claims.

Any more outlandish claims you would like to elaborate on??

Gee, this is your first new car in like 4 yrs? Maybe you are just overly excited about it, and trying to justify your purchase

MB_Forever

I have a feeling this thread will start to get out of hand Last time out to Famoso, everyone had a great time, enjoyed the event, and enjoyed pushing their cars to new limits without having a pissing contest with anybody else, so lets try to keep it as friendly as possible guys.... I want this event to be as much enjoyable as our last one. I've met all three of you at the track (Terry, sticky and hotrod182) and all of you are great car enthusiasts

A few points I'd like to share:

- sticky2, the SL63 comes with MCT transmission (Multi-Clutch Technology, similar to BMW's DCT), but unfortunately it is still slower than SMG and DCT: 100 ms shift time.

- Warren did try to make it to our last Famoso rental, but because it was a last minute thing, we couldn't open up more than 10 spots (this is per Famoso owner) without jacking up the price real high or getting 30 additional cars in 3 days.

- I think what Warren was trying to say in regards to the modding ability of 335 vs M3 discussion was that you can make the 335 considerably quicker/faster very easily and very cheaply while with the M3, it would be a little harder and more expensive to do the same. For example, it takes $2k to gain 30% more power on 335 from a tune while it may take $10k to $15k to do the same to the M3. Now that doesn't make either car better or worse, it just depends on what you prefer. We've had many similar discussions on here with regards to the E55 vs E63.

- In stock form, I personally think the M3 is better all around car. The M tuned suspension, brakes, and crisp handling make the car more fun on the road courses; the launch control and DCT allow the car to run very well at the 1/4 mile; and finally, the M3 looks better and sounds better as an overall package.