liquiddi

That is a good point. Even though the E63 will lose to the CTS-V performance wise, the CTS does not have the exclusiveness of an AMG. I would much rather have the CTS-V over the E550 any day.

bobgodd

That was the same excuse Viper owners would use for why they paid more for less car vs a Z06...

liquiddi

not really. Vipers and Vette's are the same (both crappy quality cars and a dime a dozen). Now a Porche 911 Turbo is a different story. The CTS-V will be a dime a dozen. I have never seen another E63 where I live nor have I seen a 911 Turbo. I see lots of vette's and vipers though

rkao

I've always thought these two are fascinating cars - especially the Viper ACR versus the Z06, even the 90s iteration of the Viper GT2 and the C5 Z06, very cool cars for the track.

The new Viper ACR has apparently set one of the fastest times for production cars at the Nürburgring in 2008...which is pretty eye popping considering the other cars on the list.

Then of course there's the C6 ZR1...

Here's to hoping that the domestic car makers are able to emerge at the end of this dark tunnel and cars like the '09 Viper ACR and C6 ZR1 get to carry on the heritage of domestic muscle cars.

bobgodd

It was just a lame excuse to me that's all. The exclusiveness of an AMG, compared to that of a CTS-V; I guarantee you at any given time there are more AMG's on the road than CTS-V's.....

liquiddi

After owning 2 Vette's I would never buy a new ZR1. Don't get me wrong, I love Vette's. They are great little cars for the money. The problem with the ZR1 is there is nothing different about it over the regular C6. For commanding a $100K price tag it should have a totally different interior. I will be the first to tell you that the interior of Vette's are cheapppppp. Everytime I get in mine after driving my E63 I'm like yuck lol. You would be much better off just going and buying a used low mileage C6 for like $28K and adding $10K to the motor with a twin turbo set up. You would have one of the fastest cars on the planet.

liquiddi

It was not an excuse at all. There are at least 5 of the older CTS-V's driving around here. I have yet to see an AMG. Ever.

bobgodd

Are you telling me that there are vastly improved interior differences between your E63 and an E550?? Your argument stands true for your E just as it does for the Vette. The only thing differentiating your AMG from an E550 is more power.

liquiddi

I have yet to see an E550 in person as well lol All I'm saying is that the AMG's are super special here in the US. I guess it would kind of be like if I lived in Germany I would probably want a CTS-V over a AMG because you would not see them everywhere.

bobgodd

Lol dude you're way missin the point here. Your argument against the ZR1 was that it wasn't different enough from the base C6 to warrant a buy. How, sir, is that different from your E63 vs an E550?

I guess in your case where you do not see any AMG's on the road it might make sense that the CTS-V was more abundant than a MBZ AMG, but I can assure you, that is not the case.

liquiddi

sorry I didn't see what you were responding to. The thing about the ZR1 vs C6 and E63 vs the 550 is the regular C6 is freaking awesome performance wise. They are scary fast with around 400hp. The ZR1 is really scary fast. Both have the same cheap interior. Any guy around would love to have a regular vette or a ZR1. The E63 vs the E550 is a different stroy. The both have a great interior but the E550 is a boring slug compared to the monster E63. Not every guy would take the E550 but I'm pretty sure every guy would take the E63. So basically, both Vette's are great because they are both rocket ships. The E63 is a rocket ship but the E550 is not. See what I'm saying? lol

liquiddi

so let me straighten this out so everyone can understand.

Viper = Cheap interior but very fast.
Vette = cheap interior but very fast.
CTS-V = cheap interior but very fast
E63 = Nice interior but very fast
Porche 911 turbo = Nice interior but very fast

Viper vs Vette = tie
CTS-V vs E63 = E63 win
Viper vs vette vs Porchce 911 turbo = Porche win
Porche 911 turbo vs E63 = E63 win (has more room inside lol)

See simple math lol

IndiumGreyE63

I have owned the E550 and traded it in for an E63 (a year ago). The interiors are pretty much the same, except for the hugging sport seats, the fat steering wheel and the alcantara accents in the E63.

The E550 is plenty fast. It blew the doors off of everything that came it's way. But I just craved the E63 motor, after I took one for a test drive, while my E550 was having warranty work done at my dealership. After hitting the gas on a freeway on-ramp, I was sold. It puts a smile on my face, everytime I hit the keyless-go button, and it screams to life. Awesome sound!

Point2Point

I see many more 911 Turbos around where I am than Vipers. But otherwise, 911 Turbo vs Viper is a similar analogy to CTS-V vs E63. A 2008 Viper will handily outperform a 997 Turbo. The ACR Viper beats the Porsche GT2 by 10 seconds around the Nurburgring (7:22 vs. 7:32).

nismorg

You take that AMG Package away from the E class, there's not a whole lot of special going on b/w 03-08. Yeah for 09 they've added AMG wheels to the regular body and have refined it some more. I mean it only took them 6years to add birds eye view to the Navi. My first E had its transmission give out at 900 miles and had to be parked at the dealer for 2 months while they shipped a new one in from the mother land.

Carry on

HYEPWR

CTS-V PRODUCTION from 2004-2007 is ~10,000 cars
Thats pretty rare. The problem is that it looks like very similar to a plain CTS which sells probably 75,000 a year(just a guess).
Most people cant tell the differance between a Ctsv and aplain CTS. Its the same with the E55/E63 and the E500/E550. BMW did a decent job with the M5 and 550i ect ect. Still, my wife cant tell the differance.

I believe this is why MB made a greater effort to make the C63 look different from the plain c350.

The Porsche 911tt has the same 'downmarket' problem with THOUSANDS of plain 911's carrera 4's ect running around. To me, although I love the car---the p-car is too popular and common.

The corvette Z06--huge problem with this--there are TENS of THOUSANDS of plain vettes running around that look similar. Although the ZR1 looks significantlly different in pics--i have yet to see one.

This is why pure sports cars are so desirable. Viper's, Lambo's, ferrari's, Supra's, Fd3-Rx7's, even older cars like the BWM Mcoupe. These cars have low production and have no "little brothers" so they FEEL rare. You can debadge a Gallardo and it wont matter AT ALL. Thats why the GTR is cool....love it or hate it--when u see one --You know what your getting

One of the criteria I use to choose a car is if I ever randomly goto a gas station and see 2 of the same car getting gas---Ill be totally off that car. Even though I have yet to see another E55 in the last 5 months--I see very similar E class cars every 15 mins(it seems).

liquiddi

Saw my first New CTS-V today on the road! That didn't take long. I gotta say that thing is pretty nice. The color of this one was a light blue. I like the rims and the big brakes.

jtc55

did u get a chance to go up against it w/ ur E63?

liquiddi

no. It was really foggy and crappy out here today. It was going the opposite way and I was in my Jeep. I looked up the colors on Cadillacs web site and I don't see a light blue? It was really foggy out. Maybe it was a little darker blue. Anyways, they must have recently got it because it did have temp tags on it.

NCE500

I've been looking to get a used 07/08 E63, came close to pulling the trigger a couple of times, but went and tried out an 09 CTS-V yesterday.

The CTS is no Benz, it has entirely different feel and character, but it is well put together, has pretty high quality fittings, and most importantly, goes and corners like stink. A fully loaded example gets into the high 60's, before discounts.....it offers a lot of car for the money. It's definitely worth a look.

I'll most likely still go with the used E63 when the right one comes along, but I was pretty impressed with the Caddy.

FYI, if anyone has a no excuse 07/08 E63 with Premium 2 and Pano, under 15K miles they are looking to sell, shoot me a PM.

medici78

Absolutely

liquiddi

I may have to agree

Timeless

More bad news:

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2009/..._its.html#more

Looks like you better get the high performance GM vehicles while you can.

bobgodd

Yup, saw this on another forum. It's a shame too, after coming out with two incredible vehicles in the ZR1 and the CTS-V... ugh.

mclarenm8d

I'll finally answer the original question -
I saw the CTS-V at the Chicago Auto Show. I would say the better comparison is between the C63 and the CTS-V. Driving my CL55 as a daily driver, I actually find my wife's E-class to be "small". The CTS-V is a disaster in this area. I can't believe GM can call it a mid-size car. Dimensionally it may have the numbers to support the notion that it is mid-size, but the net result is that the interior is cramped.

So ... my vote is E63.