Would you honestly rather have a 09 CTS-V over the E63???
12-30-2008, 01:37 PM
#79
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2005 E55
I like the interior. Better than my 55 IMO.
12-30-2008, 03:09 PM
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
No need to be sorry...because am not sure what part of my quoted post in your response imparted a discussion on build quality so am lost on what you're specifically responding to regarding the MB bull**** that needed to be cleaned out my ears and eyes. 
However, since quality and, more specially, the workmanship and material used, is the issue mentioned in your reply, the Cadillac would be a concern if I used my last couple of personal experience with Cadillac products as a guide.
First off, on business trip to LA about a year ago, I got an STS as a rental from Hertz, so it was an '07 model. While the goods looked up to par from afar, the actual experience left much to be desired on a luxury vehicle. The plastic surfaces felt cheap and chintzy and the fit and finish of the product was poor in general in the 48 hours I had it in my possession.
Second time, I was a participant in what was ostensibly a Road & Track test drive event but was really a poorly disguised Cadillac marketing show. The products tested were an SRX against a Lexus RX and a STS4 versus the BMW 530xi - both Cadillac specimen present showed horrible panel gap fit inside and out, and the trims were already showing signs of wear on surfaces that should not such as door panels as these are not the usual wear and tear surfaces. And again, against the competitors' products present for evaluation, the Cadillac's interiors were poor comparisons in terms of both trim quality and fit and finish.
So yes, if I was paying a lower MSRP for the CTS-V compared to an E63 or M5 I would expect a 'cheaper' product - but would not even accept this type of quality inside and out on a non-luxury marque such as a Honda or Toyota costing MUCH less; and my wife just got an '08 Honda Odyssey Touring so it is a first hand account of the quality of the vehicle. While I HATE having a minivan which is an appliance in my books, I so far cannot argue with the basic parameters such as the fit and finish and the quality of the material previous discussed - they are top notch!
However, since quality and, more specially, the workmanship and material used, is the issue mentioned in your reply, the Cadillac would be a concern if I used my last couple of personal experience with Cadillac products as a guide.
First off, on business trip to LA about a year ago, I got an STS as a rental from Hertz, so it was an '07 model. While the goods looked up to par from afar, the actual experience left much to be desired on a luxury vehicle. The plastic surfaces felt cheap and chintzy and the fit and finish of the product was poor in general in the 48 hours I had it in my possession.
Second time, I was a participant in what was ostensibly a Road & Track test drive event but was really a poorly disguised Cadillac marketing show. The products tested were an SRX against a Lexus RX and a STS4 versus the BMW 530xi - both Cadillac specimen present showed horrible panel gap fit inside and out, and the trims were already showing signs of wear on surfaces that should not such as door panels as these are not the usual wear and tear surfaces. And again, against the competitors' products present for evaluation, the Cadillac's interiors were poor comparisons in terms of both trim quality and fit and finish.
So yes, if I was paying a lower MSRP for the CTS-V compared to an E63 or M5 I would expect a 'cheaper' product - but would not even accept this type of quality inside and out on a non-luxury marque such as a Honda or Toyota costing MUCH less; and my wife just got an '08 Honda Odyssey Touring so it is a first hand account of the quality of the vehicle. While I HATE having a minivan which is an appliance in my books, I so far cannot argue with the basic parameters such as the fit and finish and the quality of the material previous discussed - they are top notch!
12-30-2008, 04:19 PM
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12-30-2008, 04:59 PM
#83
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Sorry to strike a nerve, but for 30K, I can fix ANY interior and still take the whole family on one hell of a vacation. You cannot compare an '07 STS to an '09 CTS-V. How does that have anything to do with the question? And how old was this beat on track tested SRX? I bring up quality because others have, and my '06 E55 has had more problems than ANY other car I've ever owned, including every GM product. My new Tahoe shows excellent fit and finish and is by far the best truck GM has ever produced. GM has come a long way.
12-30-2008, 08:54 PM
#85
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that interior still looks cheap. If you look at it for a while you can see howw they cut corners. The leather seats look like typical GM pleather seats lol
12-30-2008, 09:49 PM
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2008 MB S63
Bottom line, american cars are made like junk... Id love to get a CTS-v do basic bolt ons and tune and youll have a high 10 low 11 car.. not a benz... I once got spanked by a highly modded Z06 in my Murcielago. when he laughed at me, my girl told him "life is to short to be ridin the chevy" then i got the last laugh
12-30-2008, 10:37 PM
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'12 ML350
Sorry to strike a nerve, but for 30K, I can fix ANY interior and still take the whole family on one hell of a vacation. You cannot compare an '07 STS to an '09 CTS-V. How does that have anything to do with the question? And how old was this beat on track tested SRX? I bring up quality because others have, and my '06 E55 has had more problems than ANY other car I've ever owned, including every GM product. My new Tahoe shows excellent fit and finish and is by far the best truck GM has ever produced. GM has come a long way.
Well, if I based my opinion of the MB products based on my parents' experience with their '05 E500 4matic Wagon or even my (now sold) '04 SL500, I can understand the bias. The E500 has had SO many recalls and repair issues, I would've ditched it a long time ago but my parents have the patience of saints. And the SL500 had more than a few shop visits, including the recalls on the Sensotronic braking system.
But,
would you consider it also unfair to compare an '06 E55 with an '08 (or an '09) E63 given the updates? 
As for the Cadillac comparison from an '07 STS or the SRX to an '09 CTS-V, since these are the only personal experience I've had with Caddie products in the recent 12-18 months, that's all I can speak to and base my opinions on. I can't comment on if the '09 CTS-V shows any appreciable improvement in fit/finish or material quality until I see one - and I'm looking forward to examining on in person in the near future.
GM's future, IMHO, still hangs in the balance but it would be a shame if the company does not survive and marques like Cadillac or Chevrolet disappeared or fall into others' hands. It's really too bad the state of the U.S. auto industry at the current time...
12-30-2008, 10:50 PM
#88
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Bottom line, american cars are made like junk... Id love to get a CTS-v do basic bolt ons and tune and youll have a high 10 low 11 car.. not a benz... I once got spanked by a highly modded Z06 in my Murcielago. when he laughed at me, my girl told him "life is to short to be ridin the chevy" then i got the last laugh
12-31-2008, 01:47 AM
#89
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No matter what he does to that Lambo, there will always be a faster Vette... Count on it.
12-31-2008, 11:20 AM
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
Hmmm...herein lies the rub: you had a bad personal experience with an '06 E55...I did not know that.
Well, if I based my opinion of the MB products based on my parents' experience with their '05 E500 4matic Wagon or even my (now sold) '04 SL500, I can understand the bias. The E500 has had SO many recalls and repair issues, I would've ditched it a long time ago but my parents have the patience of saints. And the SL500 had more than a few shop visits, including the recalls on the Sensotronic braking system.
But, would you consider it also unfair to compare an '06 E55 with an '08 (or an '09) E63 given the updates?
As for the Cadillac comparison from an '07 STS or the SRX to an '09 CTS-V, since these are the only personal experience I've had with Caddie products in the recent 12-18 months, that's all I can speak to and base my opinions on. I can't comment on if the '09 CTS-V shows any appreciable improvement in fit/finish or material quality until I see one - and I'm looking forward to examining on in person in the near future.
GM's future, IMHO, still hangs in the balance but it would be a shame if the company does not survive and marques like Cadillac or Chevrolet disappeared or fall into others' hands. It's really too bad the state of the U.S. auto industry at the current time...
Well, if I based my opinion of the MB products based on my parents' experience with their '05 E500 4matic Wagon or even my (now sold) '04 SL500, I can understand the bias. The E500 has had SO many recalls and repair issues, I would've ditched it a long time ago but my parents have the patience of saints. And the SL500 had more than a few shop visits, including the recalls on the Sensotronic braking system.
But,
would you consider it also unfair to compare an '06 E55 with an '08 (or an '09) E63 given the updates? As for the Cadillac comparison from an '07 STS or the SRX to an '09 CTS-V, since these are the only personal experience I've had with Caddie products in the recent 12-18 months, that's all I can speak to and base my opinions on. I can't comment on if the '09 CTS-V shows any appreciable improvement in fit/finish or material quality until I see one - and I'm looking forward to examining on in person in the near future.
GM's future, IMHO, still hangs in the balance but it would be a shame if the company does not survive and marques like Cadillac or Chevrolet disappeared or fall into others' hands. It's really too bad the state of the U.S. auto industry at the current time...
12-31-2008, 12:23 PM
#92
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Seeing that interior of the V in the picture up there and comparing it to the interior in an E63, I don't see how the E would be better. If the interiors were reversed and the interior of the V was in the E and vice versa, you would all say how the interior of the Caddy looked dated and wasnt quite up to par.
12-31-2008, 12:59 PM
#93
Senior Member
You cant compare a Cadillac to a Mercedes AMG. Gotta stop the hating of the masterful E63.
On a side note - The CTS-V was recently tested against the current M5 and beat it in just about every performance category and the lap time.
I would not even consider taking the ugly caddy over the M5..
On a side note - The CTS-V was recently tested against the current M5 and beat it in just about every performance category and the lap time.
I would not even consider taking the ugly caddy over the M5..
12-31-2008, 11:35 PM
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'12 ML350
I couldn't agree more except that an E63 is an improvement over an E55. I directly compared the 2. I own an '06 and passed on an '07 E63 for many reasons. First, 20K. Second, the interior is not an improvement IMHO. Slightly different, but not better, especially without the DD seats. The changes to the body are just that, changes, I don't how you can call them improvements. Performance wise, the cars are about the same, but as we all know, once the modding starts, goodbye E63. As a drivers car, I found the brakes to have a slightly better feel, and I really did like the increased "smoothness" of the 7 speed and no more damned SC clutch "jerk". Was that worth 20K? Not to me. The SLK55 has had its share of problems as well, just like my W210 E55, and E430. The last bulletproof MB I had was an old 560SL. On average, MB has not produced a "better" car than Caddy for some years now. Nicer? subjectively yes. Faster? yes. Better resale? No. Better reliability? Not even close. The CTS-V is still not quite up to par on the interior, but it is equal to or better than the current E platform in performance. So we're back to comparing interiors and which car "looks" nicer for a $30,000.00 price difference. For the same price, there is no comparison, the E63. For an extra 30K??? I don't think so. That is the point I'm making.
In the end, value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder and value entangles many intangible factors beyond just price and specs. My foil for car ownership is my father-in-law: while very comfortable in retirement and able to afford any better luxury car out in the market, he LOVES his 5 years old Lexus ES because it takes him from point A to point B in comfort and silence and has been completely reliable - all that he wants in a car. Oh, and he bought the Lexus (paid in cash, always has paid cash in full for his cars) when the ES300 replaced his beloved 12 years old Chrysler Dynasty!
As I'd said in my first post in this thread, I would consider the CTS-V when the time comes to replace my E63 when its lease ends in April 2010. But by then, the W212 E-class should have made its debut and the new E63 should also be unveiled, not to mention the F10 generation BMW 5-series including the M5 - and I'd expect MB and BMW to have moved the yard stick further forward than either the W211 E63 or the CTS-V...these choices really spoil us as car enthusiasts!
01-01-2009, 02:29 AM
#96
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If picking a CTS-V over an E63 = Hating the E63 then I guess that would be me.
Well put.
To close this loop, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
In the end, value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder and value entangles many intangible factors beyond just price and specs. My foil for car ownership is my father-in-law: while very comfortable in retirement and able to afford any better luxury car out in the market, he LOVES his 5 years old Lexus ES because it takes him from point A to point B in comfort and silence and has been completely reliable - all that he wants in a car. Oh, and he bought the Lexus (paid in cash, always has paid cash in full for his cars) when the ES300 replaced his beloved 12 years old Chrysler Dynasty!
As I'd said in my first post in this thread, I would consider the CTS-V when the time comes to replace my E63 when its lease ends in April 2010. But by then, the W212 E-class should have made its debut and the new E63 should also be unveiled, not to mention the F10 generation BMW 5-series including the M5 - and I'd expect MB and BMW to have moved the yard stick further forward than either the W211 E63 or the CTS-V...these choices really spoil us as car enthusiasts!
In the end, value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder and value entangles many intangible factors beyond just price and specs. My foil for car ownership is my father-in-law: while very comfortable in retirement and able to afford any better luxury car out in the market, he LOVES his 5 years old Lexus ES because it takes him from point A to point B in comfort and silence and has been completely reliable - all that he wants in a car. Oh, and he bought the Lexus (paid in cash, always has paid cash in full for his cars) when the ES300 replaced his beloved 12 years old Chrysler Dynasty!
As I'd said in my first post in this thread, I would consider the CTS-V when the time comes to replace my E63 when its lease ends in April 2010. But by then, the W212 E-class should have made its debut and the new E63 should also be unveiled, not to mention the F10 generation BMW 5-series including the M5 - and I'd expect MB and BMW to have moved the yard stick further forward than either the W211 E63 or the CTS-V...these choices really spoil us as car enthusiasts!
01-01-2009, 03:34 AM
#97
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A test drive is not going to show squat...I test drove my CTS-V, the rear-end did not break on my test drive, but it broke about 900 miles later, and 1500 miles after that and 1000 miles after that. 4 rear-ends in less than 5000 miles, that is the kind of stuff test drives don't show you...live and learn I guess. I don't care how fast it is or how quick it can lap the ring, if it is going to break in the process it is not on par with an MB or Bimmer. Americans should stick to building semis, pick-ups and SUVS, they can't build anything else worth while. Remeber guys, I owned a new ZR1 a couple months ago, drove it for a few days and flipped it, besides being sick fast it was just another Chevy, might as well have been a Cobalt with it's cheap interior material, fit and finish. The new CTS-V will have the same cheap GM feel as well.
The new CTS-V, I won't knock it as I would have to own one as JRCart said to give a fair critique. I have test drove many cars in my time, and usually Cadillac's did not hold up on handling and some performance specs remains to be seen on this car as it is new. I know domestics have a crappy past, but I can't apply that to the CTS-V. Not yet.
I would prefer the E63, but that is based on styling. Ultimately, I still love my CLS. That's preference guys.
To add, the interior is looking much better but I just don't know of the actual fit, finish, and quality of the CTS-V.
Last edited by bigben320e; 01-01-2009 at 03:59 AM.
01-02-2009, 07:40 PM
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09 jeep srt8, 07 gl450
I have a different perspective. It's a hell of a good alternative to a e550. Price is the same. The lack of build quality compared to the e550 is offset by the extra hp. with three little kids, c63 is too small.
So for me, it's a poor mans e63. It'll fill it's spot in many garages.
So for me, it's a poor mans e63. It'll fill it's spot in many garages.
01-02-2009, 08:21 PM
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2005 E55 ///AMG
I have a different perspective. It's a hell of a good alternative to a e550. Price is the same. The lack of build quality compared to the e550 is offset by the extra hp. with three little kids, c63 is too small.
So for me, it's a poor mans e63. It'll fill it's spot in many garages.
So for me, it's a poor mans e63. It'll fill it's spot in many garages.
