E55K long tubes for $2500
02-07-2009, 03:40 PM
#101
Member
I'd have to wonder how much of the power gain came simply from the headers/exhaust leaning out the tune? Was the car in question tuned prior, then retuned after, or just running the same tune?
I hear what you're saying about the OEM manifolds but keep in mind that even GT500 manifolds have a 2 1/4" neckdown in the collector which you'd think would seriously hinder flow. Yet with a 2.3L TVS (same blower as on the ZR1) you can make 700rw. With a 2.8L KB, 700-725rw on 93. Again the size of the blower and inlet restriction are the most important aspects to address in PD apps.
Thanks
I hear what you're saying about the OEM manifolds but keep in mind that even GT500 manifolds have a 2 1/4" neckdown in the collector which you'd think would seriously hinder flow. Yet with a 2.3L TVS (same blower as on the ZR1) you can make 700rw. With a 2.8L KB, 700-725rw on 93. Again the size of the blower and inlet restriction are the most important aspects to address in PD apps.
Thanks
2 Excellent points!! I completely forgot that a GT500 has that neckdown. Wow...yeah....I guess you are right. My friends TVS GT500 makes 740rwhp!!
So heres the MILLION DOLLAR question.....Since you have now spent some time with this engine....What are the biggest bottlenecks in your estimation?? Please list them in order.
I just get so upset that 4.6L Terminators with 2.3L Whipples or KB's can put out 680rwhp and we squabble over 500whp crumbs...
02-07-2009, 03:43 PM
#102
MBWorld Fanatic!
This thread is so gay. I don't know why everyone has to be so negative?
E55Pilot is a joke. Talk about someone useless to a forum.....
MHP talks trash comparing a 30k car vs a 200k car, and then declares victory after barely beating said 30k car with nitrous.
JR chimes in with "unless it's made out of kevlar reinforced rhodium than it must be "cheap rusty crap".
Jangy gets all defensive, and goes off on a ten post tilt.
E55Pilot is a joke. Talk about someone useless to a forum.....
MHP talks trash comparing a 30k car vs a 200k car, and then declares victory after barely beating said 30k car with nitrous.
JR chimes in with "unless it's made out of kevlar reinforced rhodium than it must be "cheap rusty crap".
Jangy gets all defensive, and goes off on a ten post tilt.
02-07-2009, 03:47 PM
#103
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Damn you LZH for giving us such false hope!
The board was much more pleasant when Curley, Moe and Larry (a/k/a Andy, Jangy and JRCart) were on suspension. This post just shows once again that when you put these three stooges together in the same post all you end up with is another p*ssing contest.
It's truly pathetic for grown men to be behave so immaturely.
02-07-2009, 03:51 PM
#104
MBWorld Fanatic!
Damn you LZH for giving us such false hope!
The board was much more pleasant when Curley, Moe and Larry (a/k/a Andy, Jangy and JRCart) were on suspension. This post just shows once again that when you put these three stooges together in the same post all you end up with is another p*ssing contest. It's truly pathetic for grown men to be behave so immaturely.
The board was much more pleasant when Curley, Moe and Larry (a/k/a Andy, Jangy and JRCart) were on suspension. This post just shows once again that when you put these three stooges together in the same post all you end up with is another p*ssing contest.
It's truly pathetic for grown men to be behave so immaturely.Last edited by jrcart; 02-07-2009 at 03:58 PM.
02-07-2009, 04:01 PM
#105
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'09 C63 AMG
Andy---have I told you what an AWSOME member you are when your NOT talking trash!! I really appreciate your technical posts.
2 Excellent points!! I completely forgot that a GT500 has that neckdown. Wow...yeah....I guess you are right. My friends TVS GT500 makes 740rwhp!!
So heres the MILLION DOLLAR question.....Since you have now spent some time with this engine....What are the biggest bottlenecks in your estimation?? Please list them in order.
I just get so upset that 4.6L Terminators with 2.3L Whipples or KB's can put out 680rwhp and we squabble over 500whp crumbs...
2 Excellent points!! I completely forgot that a GT500 has that neckdown. Wow...yeah....I guess you are right. My friends TVS GT500 makes 740rwhp!!
So heres the MILLION DOLLAR question.....Since you have now spent some time with this engine....What are the biggest bottlenecks in your estimation?? Please list them in order.
I just get so upset that 4.6L Terminators with 2.3L Whipples or KB's can put out 680rwhp and we squabble over 500whp crumbs...
1) Inlet restrictions: We need larger air inlet tubes, larger filters, larger throttle bodys (at least 90mm) and bellows that connect the inlets to the TB. Any source of restriction in front of the blower needs to be addressed immediately and will always make power.
2) Blower size. The easiest and quickest way to make more power is unquestionably to add a larger blower and pulley accordingly. In any PA app the size of the blower/turbo is the true limiting factor for potential power production. Unlike N/A apps in which the cylinder heads dictate it.
3) ECU/TCU Torque/Load management. We're not even seeing the true potential of the 2.3L IHI without torque management reduction/elimination in the software.
4) Intercoolers, just not up to par.
There's just not a ton left over in porting the heads, going with larger cams, or exhaust. The blower not only supplies the volume of air but also the velocity so we have to look elsewhere for larger/cost effective gains.
You are exactly right in that there are 4.6 Termies (let alone 5.4 GT500s/GTs) that put the 55Ks to shame due to the availablility of aftermarket tuning/parts and the larger build numbers/greater market. Though I'd still rather take a 55K (any 55K) over a Termie.
Last edited by MHP; 02-07-2009 at 04:04 PM.
02-07-2009, 04:02 PM
#106
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'09 C63 AMG
02-07-2009, 04:13 PM
#108
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V12-Biturbo
The largest issues I see with the 55Ks are basically the same of those of any PD blower equipped vehicle:
1) Inlet restrictions: We need larger air inlet tubes, larger filters, larger throttle bodys (at least 90mm) and bellows that connect the inlets to the TB. Any source of restriction in front of the blower needs to be addressed immediately and will always make power.
2) Blower size. The easiest and quickest way to make more power is unquestionably to add a larger blower and pulley accordingly. In any PA app the size of the blower/turbo is the true limiting factor for potential power production. Unlike N/A apps in which the cylinder heads dictate it.
3) ECU/TCU Torque/Load management. We're not even seeing the true potential of the 2.3L IHI without torque management reduction/elimination in the software.
4) Intercoolers, just not up to par.
There's just not a ton left over in porting the heads, going with larger cams, or exhaust. The blower not only supplies the volume of air but also the velocity so we have to look elsewhere for larger/cost effective gains.
You are exactly right in that there are 4.6 Termies (let alone 5.4 GT500s/GTs) that put the 55Ks to shame due to the availablility of aftermarket tuning/parts and the larger build numbers/greater market. Though I'd still rather take a 55K (any 55K) over a Termie.
1) Inlet restrictions: We need larger air inlet tubes, larger filters, larger throttle bodys (at least 90mm) and bellows that connect the inlets to the TB. Any source of restriction in front of the blower needs to be addressed immediately and will always make power.
2) Blower size. The easiest and quickest way to make more power is unquestionably to add a larger blower and pulley accordingly. In any PA app the size of the blower/turbo is the true limiting factor for potential power production. Unlike N/A apps in which the cylinder heads dictate it.
3) ECU/TCU Torque/Load management. We're not even seeing the true potential of the 2.3L IHI without torque management reduction/elimination in the software.
4) Intercoolers, just not up to par.
There's just not a ton left over in porting the heads, going with larger cams, or exhaust. The blower not only supplies the volume of air but also the velocity so we have to look elsewhere for larger/cost effective gains.
You are exactly right in that there are 4.6 Termies (let alone 5.4 GT500s/GTs) that put the 55Ks to shame due to the availablility of aftermarket tuning/parts and the larger build numbers/greater market. Though I'd still rather take a 55K (any 55K) over a Termie.
02-07-2009, 04:34 PM
#110
Member
The largest issues I see with the 55Ks are basically the same of those of any PD blower equipped vehicle:
1) Inlet restrictions: We need larger air inlet tubes, larger filters, larger throttle bodys (at least 90mm) and bellows that connect the inlets to the TB. Any source of restriction in front of the blower needs to be addressed immediately and will always make power.
Agree 100%....if some one doesnt come up with a solution soon, Im goona try to build a bracket that will hold 2 stock 73mm TB
2) Blower size. The easiest and quickest way to make more power is unquestionably to add a larger blower and pulley accordingly. In any PA app the size of the blower/turbo is the true limiting factor for potential power production. Unlike N/A apps in which the cylinder heads dictate it.
No way anyone does this....too much $$. Besides, 2.3l limit is around 630whp.....We're at 530whp max now. Let reach the limit of our cars 1st.
3) ECU/TCU Torque/Load management. We're not even seeing the true potential of the 2.3L IHI without torque management reduction/elimination in the software.
Agreed....have you solved this?? You would do your company and the forum a great service by showing a dyno/Data log(boost,timing,bypass valve opening angle) of the phenomena then one with it programed out. Id love to see that.
4) Intercoolers, just not up to par.
I'm feeling this is one of the bigger causes. 2.3L whipple's and KB on Termie's are usually boosting 19-24psi at the 600+whp range. Im very curious to see just how much the flow is being restricted by the stock IC.
There's just not a ton left over in porting the heads, going with larger cams, or exhaust. The blower not only supplies the volume of air but also the velocity so we have to look elsewhere for larger/cost effective gains.
You are exactly right in that there are 4.6 Termies (let alone 5.4 GT500s/GTs) that put the 55Ks to shame due to the availablility of aftermarket tuning/parts and the larger build numbers/greater market. Though I'd still rather take a 55K (any 55K) over a Termie.
1) Inlet restrictions: We need larger air inlet tubes, larger filters, larger throttle bodys (at least 90mm) and bellows that connect the inlets to the TB. Any source of restriction in front of the blower needs to be addressed immediately and will always make power.
Agree 100%....if some one doesnt come up with a solution soon, Im goona try to build a bracket that will hold 2 stock 73mm TB
2) Blower size. The easiest and quickest way to make more power is unquestionably to add a larger blower and pulley accordingly. In any PA app the size of the blower/turbo is the true limiting factor for potential power production. Unlike N/A apps in which the cylinder heads dictate it.
No way anyone does this....too much $$. Besides, 2.3l limit is around 630whp.....We're at 530whp max now. Let reach the limit of our cars 1st.
3) ECU/TCU Torque/Load management. We're not even seeing the true potential of the 2.3L IHI without torque management reduction/elimination in the software.
Agreed....have you solved this?? You would do your company and the forum a great service by showing a dyno/Data log(boost,timing,bypass valve opening angle) of the phenomena then one with it programed out. Id love to see that.
4) Intercoolers, just not up to par.
I'm feeling this is one of the bigger causes. 2.3L whipple's and KB on Termie's are usually boosting 19-24psi at the 600+whp range. Im very curious to see just how much the flow is being restricted by the stock IC.
There's just not a ton left over in porting the heads, going with larger cams, or exhaust. The blower not only supplies the volume of air but also the velocity so we have to look elsewhere for larger/cost effective gains.
You are exactly right in that there are 4.6 Termies (let alone 5.4 GT500s/GTs) that put the 55Ks to shame due to the availablility of aftermarket tuning/parts and the larger build numbers/greater market. Though I'd still rather take a 55K (any 55K) over a Termie.
02-07-2009, 04:59 PM
#111
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'09 C63 AMG
2) Blower size. The easiest and quickest way to make more power is unquestionably to add a larger blower and pulley accordingly. In any PA app the size of the blower/turbo is the true limiting factor for potential power production. Unlike N/A apps in which the cylinder heads dictate it.
No way anyone does this....too much $$. Besides, 2.3l limit is around 630whp.....We're at 530whp max now. Let reach the limit of our cars 1st.
No way anyone does this....too much $$. Besides, 2.3l limit is around 630whp.....We're at 530whp max now. Let reach the limit of our cars 1st.
Think about how many people have spent a good bit of change on cams/ported heads/ported blower (useless on a twin screw), and/or a stroker...By comparison a blower swap to a 2.8L+ TS would be extremely affordable and bang for the buck wise the clear winner in this mod comparo.
3) ECU/TCU Torque/Load management. We're not even seeing the true potential of the 2.3L IHI without torque management reduction/elimination in the software.
Agreed....have you solved this?? You would do your company and the forum a great service by showing a dyno/Data log(boost,timing,bypass valve opening angle) of the phenomena then one with it programed out. Id love to see that.
Agreed....have you solved this?? You would do your company and the forum a great service by showing a dyno/Data log(boost,timing,bypass valve opening angle) of the phenomena then one with it programed out. Id love to see that.
4) Intercoolers, just not up to par.
I'm feeling this is one of the bigger causes. 2.3L whipple's and KB on Termie's are usually boosting 19-24psi at the 600+whp range. Im very curious to see just how much the flow is being restricted by the stock IC.
I'm feeling this is one of the bigger causes. 2.3L whipple's and KB on Termie's are usually boosting 19-24psi at the 600+whp range. Im very curious to see just how much the flow is being restricted by the stock IC.
02-07-2009, 07:08 PM
#112
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
[QUOTE=MHP;3335444]Think about how many people have spent a good bit of change on cams/ported heads/ported blower (useless on a twin screw),.QUOTE]
Why do you think that? I was able to get good incremental gains with the cams. Vadim is porting the heads and blower as I type...Care to be more specific?
Why do you think that? I was able to get good incremental gains with the cams. Vadim is porting the heads and blower as I type...Care to be more specific?
02-07-2009, 10:10 PM
#113
MBWorld Founder
Please get this thread back on track. I speak for MANY when I say that we're really VERY tired of babysitting the same people over and over and over...
.
.
02-07-2009, 10:55 PM
#114
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
With all due respect....please go back and read the first page. It was not until post #45 where Mikey started it. Ban me, suspend me I really don't give a ***** because I'm getting really sick and tired of his backhanded comments that are CLEARLY meant to instigate...Jim is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. I wouldn't put them on my car either. Sure, he was wrong about who makes them, but he certainly wasn't trying to "derail the fabricator"...he was pointing out that they are an inferior product, and they are. Then the "selp proclaimed" commnet totally out of left aimed directly at MHP for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.
And you MODS wonder why this bickering continues. I hate to sound like a kid on the playground.....but perhaps you should punish who starts it and not the guys who react after the fact.
jim,
please don't start making unfounded accusations and implications in order to derail a fabricator that has quietly brought more to this community than recent "self proclaimed" tuners. these are mild steel headers with a jet-hot coating. no one has ever represented them as ss. and to make the totally uneducated assumption that these headers are knock-offs is below the belt even for you. these are original headers...headers that vrp LATER commissioned to become their own and put their brand on. we all know you have more money than the rest of us so you can pay what you want. in the mean time others need to work within a budget and these headers flat out work (as witnessed at famoso).
please don't start making unfounded accusations and implications in order to derail a fabricator that has quietly brought more to this community than recent "self proclaimed" tuners. these are mild steel headers with a jet-hot coating. no one has ever represented them as ss. and to make the totally uneducated assumption that these headers are knock-offs is below the belt even for you. these are original headers...headers that vrp LATER commissioned to become their own and put their brand on. we all know you have more money than the rest of us so you can pay what you want. in the mean time others need to work within a budget and these headers flat out work (as witnessed at famoso).
Last edited by LZH; 02-07-2009 at 11:22 PM.
02-07-2009, 11:14 PM
#115
MBWorld Fanatic!
With all due respect....please go back and read the first page. It was not until post #45 where the little dick Mikey started it. Ban me, suspend me I really don't give a ***** because I'm getting really sick and tired of his backhanded comments that are CLEARLY meant to instigate...
The headers pictured in the first post ARE Mikey's headers and they are on his car, I do believe that affords him the right to defend them to a certain extent.
02-07-2009, 11:15 PM
#116
MBWorld Fanatic!
What did Andy do to get placed on suspension again? I did not see anything in this thread that was too bad???
Hey mods, you need to take a look at the people that instigated crap on this thread, and this time it was not me, Andy or Jangy, we all actually got along just fine. Chiromikey and Indyjoe both came in here with an obvious bone to pick with certain members. Chiromikey is always breaking the rules and starting arguements but he has never gotten suspended.
.....I'll probably be talking to you all again in about 2 weeks
Hey mods, you need to take a look at the people that instigated crap on this thread, and this time it was not me, Andy or Jangy, we all actually got along just fine. Chiromikey and Indyjoe both came in here with an obvious bone to pick with certain members. Chiromikey is always breaking the rules and starting arguements but he has never gotten suspended.
.....I'll probably be talking to you all again in about 2 weeks
Last edited by jrcart; 02-07-2009 at 11:18 PM.
02-07-2009, 11:45 PM
#117
Administrator
Andy, you must have a bullseye on your sig. 
I'm not sure what you did it this time but I actually thought you were more reserved than usual. If I were you, I would change the name of your company to 360forged and have all of your threads closed before they can ban you.
I'm not sure what you did it this time but I actually thought you were more reserved than usual. If I were you, I would change the name of your company to 360forged and have all of your threads closed before they can ban you.
02-07-2009, 11:48 PM
#118
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
What did Andy do to get placed on suspension again? I did not see anything in this thread that was too bad???
Hey mods, you need to take a look at the people that instigated crap on this thread, and this time it was not me, Andy or Jangy, we all actually got along just fine. Chiromikey and Indyjoe both came in here with an obvious bone to pick with certain members. Chiromikey is always breaking the rules and starting arguements but he has never gotten suspended.
.....I'll probably be talking to you all again in about 2 weeks
Hey mods, you need to take a look at the people that instigated crap on this thread, and this time it was not me, Andy or Jangy, we all actually got along just fine. Chiromikey and Indyjoe both came in here with an obvious bone to pick with certain members. Chiromikey is always breaking the rules and starting arguements but he has never gotten suspended.
.....I'll probably be talking to you all again in about 2 weeks
I thought this thread was a great read... lots of good info being shared
jangy, jrcart, and MHP were all being downright civil with one another - Andy even apologized to jangy at one point. I double-checked my calendar to make sure it wasn't 4/1/09 (j/k everybody
)Lift the ban... I for one (but not the only, I have a feeling) appreciate Andy's technical knowledge and insights.
***Disclaimer, yes I'm a paying MHP customer, with whatever corresponding bias goes along with that I suppose
02-07-2009, 11:48 PM
#119
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2005 E55 ///AMG
The way I see it is that if you've already been given infractions, warned several times, and put on a two weeks suspsension, perhaps you should take the hint and take the higher road...the road less taken if you will.
It is against certain members' nature, but I would think the hints that behavior like this are not going to be tolerated would eventually sink in.
Sponsors should be selling product and giving great customer service...not getting into personal jibes. I enjoy reading the technical posts from MHP a LOT, but waiding through garbage to read the gems is getting old.
Just my two cents...and I really hated to even post them...but felt the need to.
It is against certain members' nature, but I would think the hints that behavior like this are not going to be tolerated would eventually sink in.
Sponsors should be selling product and giving great customer service...not getting into personal jibes. I enjoy reading the technical posts from MHP a LOT, but waiding through garbage to read the gems is getting old.
Just my two cents...and I really hated to even post them...but felt the need to.
02-07-2009, 11:49 PM
#120
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02-08-2009, 02:30 AM
#121
Out Of Control!!
02-08-2009, 04:49 AM
#122
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e55 w/LET TUNE Drinks: vodka STRAIGHT Wheels: 19" HRE 547r Mods:FF headers ASP Pulley
What did Andy do to get placed on suspension again? I did not see anything in this thread that was too bad???
Hey mods, you need to take a look at the people that instigated crap on this thread, and this time it was not me, Andy or Jangy, we all actually got along just fine. Chiromikey and Indyjoe both came in here with an obvious bone to pick with certain members. Chiromikey is always breaking the rules and starting arguements but he has never gotten suspended.
.....I'll probably be talking to you all again in about 2 weeks
Hey mods, you need to take a look at the people that instigated crap on this thread, and this time it was not me, Andy or Jangy, we all actually got along just fine. Chiromikey and Indyjoe both came in here with an obvious bone to pick with certain members. Chiromikey is always breaking the rules and starting arguements but he has never gotten suspended.
.....I'll probably be talking to you all again in about 2 weeks
i feel you. screw it why not just suspended me aswell.
this is what happens when a all the internet boards are owned by one big company!
we shall rise up and take down the man...well woman.
02-08-2009, 06:22 AM
#123
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
I've had plenty of four letter words used to describe me....thankfully, that's not one of them. However, it does seem to be an underpinning that contributes to many of the detractive sentiments that fuel your (and others) continued sore loser attitude.
02-08-2009, 09:25 AM
#124
Out Of Control!!
I'm surprised people have described you with 4 letter words so many times, you seem like such a nice guy!
02-08-2009, 11:38 AM
#125
MBWorld Fanatic!
hmmmmm.......I believe it's called an aftermarket blower
I'm really getting sick of the 55 guys like you and Mikey that think their super chargers are N/A or "motor only". Hey Ahmad, I'm gonna ask the question nobody seems to be asking. How fast was your "hooptie" before you bolted up an aftermarket blower to it? I promise it was not even in the same leauge as my car (even when I was bone stock), what did you run 12.4's? 12.5's....maybe even 12.7's????do I hear 13.0's???? Regardless of the cost of my car or it's mods it runs 11.3's on motor with simple bolt-ons, far fewer mods than any of you 55 guys have made to run comparable times with your cars. I have headers, X-pipe (stock mufflers), ECU tuning, a crank pulley and an airbox on my car, those are the only mods that are helping my engine make power. Show me any 55 that can lay down a 11.3 with only those mods. You guys have to change TB's, IC's, IC pumps, pulleys, T-stats, MAJOR intake mods, plus who knows what else. Bottom line is that most of you are stubborn haters that for whatever reason you think your 55's are far superior to anything else out there. I'm going to beat each and every last one of your e/t's on motor if it's the last thing I do just so a 63 can stand atop all of you in the record books. I have all the time, money and resources I will need to do it too. So sit back and enjoy, it's going to be an intersting spring...and I have not even taken delivery of the SL BS yet, and some of you guys think I am going over board on the CLK, LOL, just wait! God, I know it's gonna burn some of you guys up when you see JRCART in the top two spots of all the lists.
