*** VRP Intercooler Package for V12 BiTurbo ***
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 84
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From: Southeast
2003 S-600
I think I am probably speaking for a lot of folks here:
My car will never see anything besides 93 octane. I have a stock exhast system. I am not looking for a dragster, but I would like to be able to smoke a Rennteched 600/65 on demand. What is a realistic rwhp number with nothing more than this system?
I am very excited about this product and look forward to your progress.
GJ
My car will never see anything besides 93 octane. I have a stock exhast system. I am not looking for a dragster, but I would like to be able to smoke a Rennteched 600/65 on demand. What is a realistic rwhp number with nothing more than this system?
I am very excited about this product and look forward to your progress.
GJ
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 514
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From: Chicago
CL65
I think I am probably speaking for a lot of folks here:
My car will never see anything besides 93 octane. I have a stock exhast system. I am not looking for a dragster, but I would like to be able to smoke a Rennteched 600/65 on demand. What is a realistic rwhp number with nothing more than this system?
I am very excited about this product and look forward to your progress.
GJ
My car will never see anything besides 93 octane. I have a stock exhast system. I am not looking for a dragster, but I would like to be able to smoke a Rennteched 600/65 on demand. What is a realistic rwhp number with nothing more than this system?
I am very excited about this product and look forward to your progress.
GJ
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From: Ann Arbor
'03 SL55
Very impressive!
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Your worst nightmare...
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LS430
That's amazing torque for rotating the world and your checkbook as you keep modding it. 
It would be great to see a full tuned 600 vs. 65 on the same mods comparing 93 pump and race gas 100 octane dyno numbers with similar conditions and dyno. I wonder how much can the engine on the car crank out once it's fine tuned, receives better A/F tuning, and has the intake, exhaust, and intercooler to maximize flow and cooling. Will it be possible to do 750rwhp and 1000rwtq while keeping timing and tuning safe on pump and race fuel?
It would be great to see a full tuned 600 vs. 65 on the same mods comparing 93 pump and race gas 100 octane dyno numbers with similar conditions and dyno. I wonder how much can the engine on the car crank out once it's fine tuned, receives better A/F tuning, and has the intake, exhaust, and intercooler to maximize flow and cooling. Will it be possible to do 750rwhp and 1000rwtq while keeping timing and tuning safe on pump and race fuel?
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Super Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 514
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From: Chicago
CL65
That's amazing torque for rotating the world and your checkbook as you keep modding it. It would be great to see a full tuned 600 vs. 65 on the same mods comparing 93 pump and race gas 100 octane dyno numbers with similar conditions and dyno. I wonder how much can the engine on the car crank out once it's fine tuned, receives better A/F tuning, and has the intake, exhaust, and intercooler to maximize flow and cooling. Will it be possible to do 750rwhp and 1000rwtq while keeping timing and tuning safe on pump and race fuel?
It would be great to see a full tuned 600 vs. 65 on the same mods comparing 93 pump and race gas 100 octane dyno numbers with similar conditions and dyno. I wonder how much can the engine on the car crank out once it's fine tuned, receives better A/F tuning, and has the intake, exhaust, and intercooler to maximize flow and cooling. Will it be possible to do 750rwhp and 1000rwtq while keeping timing and tuning safe on pump and race fuel?
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LS430
I can tell you right now with a very high degree of certainty that you will not see 750 RWHP with the stock turbos. I believe that number can be hit with the upgraded turbo package that's being developed. It may even be able to hit 750RWHP on pump gas. We will find out.
VRUS said it best that to expect 725-735rwhp tops with 100 octane on the setup once it's tuned. It's pretty nice though that you guys can run same numbers on pump at just -2 degrees of timing. If you speak about 2 more turbos going in then 750rwhp is a number to small to acheive once you take into account in the 2 snails I saw in the 1000hp build thread. If you don't mind how do you compare the monster th400 dawg vs. the more civilized, newer and cruising friendly (not to mention gobs of torque without revving too much) CL?
Gosh this place is a superstar spot
, even Gary Javo is here, I remember his TT Viper.
Last edited by E55AMGFan; Mar 31, 2009 at 08:19 PM.
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 109
Likes: 24
My biggest concern is how the drivetrain/tranny will handle all that torque. If you noticed, the Black Series SL65 AMG needed a stout 5 speed tranny in order to handle the torque and they still had it limited to less than what people are running with the setup in this post. Something tells me the tranny can't handle the torque. I have to imagine a tranny replacement in a 600 or 65 would be EXTREMELY expensive. Has anyone checked to see the cost???
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LS430
My biggest concern is how the drivetrain/tranny will handle all that torque. If you noticed, the Black Series SL65 AMG needed a stout 5 speed tranny in order to handle the torque and they still had it limited to less than what people are running with the setup in this post. Something tells me the tranny can't handle the torque. I have to imagine a tranny replacement in a 600 or 65 would be EXTREMELY expensive. Has anyone checked to see the cost???
Transmission, sl600, sl65 04-08 $7,120.00
Torque converter, sl600, sl65 $1,220.00
Drive plate, sl600, sl65 $350.00
Extension housing seal, sl600, sl65 $2.70
Filter $18.00
Trans pan $85.00
Gasket $15.00
Roughly $9,000, $8,810.70 to be exact. I taken these prices from MileOneParts.com website for oem parts. Funny thing is that the SL55AMG stuff is a bit higher for the tranny and torque convertor. Also I see the CL600 drive plate is $460.
Last edited by E55AMGFan; Apr 1, 2009 at 03:05 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: South FL & NYC
Your worst nightmare...
My tech keeps telling me they are bullet proof. I guess we will know in some distant future. We will cross that bridge if we come accross it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,155
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From: Southern, CA.
V12-Biturbo
Marko has made 25+ hard passes and still has no problems...2 weeks on my car and various hard launches and passes. No Issues here...Thank God!..lol...
My tech keeps telling me they are bullet proof. I guess we will know in some distant future. We will cross that bridge if we come accross it.
My tech keeps telling me they are bullet proof. I guess we will know in some distant future. We will cross that bridge if we come accross it.
the previous "parts & tranny costs" post makes it look like the 65/600 share the same tranny? Could you ask your tech to verify or does someone have definitive info on the matter?
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SL600
I'm definitely not an expert on this issue, but I'm curious why no one is upgrading their tranny to the Viper tranny. They seem to hold up well despite the insane amount of power Hennessey dumps into them. 
Then we could go stop all this "limiting" going on around here no?
Then we could go stop all this "limiting" going on around here no?
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SL600
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From: San Diego
2004 E55
1. Getting the ECU to function properly without an automatic transmission to electronically control may or may not be as easy as tuning the transmission "out".
2. Fitting a third pedal in the drivers side foot well may not be easy because I'm sure there is a lot of electronics down there that would need to be relocated.
3. I haven't heard of any manual tranny's in any of the late-model AMG's so finding the proper fitting flywheels and what-not to mate the engine to the transmission may or may not be straight forward.
4. Custom driveshaft?
5. Custom transmission mounts and crossmember?
6. Fitting a shifter into the interior shouldn't be too hard, but would probably require custom finish pieces..
7. I'm not sure how much the ESP functions are tied into the transmission but that may or may not work correctly.
8. Possible loss of keyless-go start functioning.
9. VSS programming, may or may not be easy.
I had a couple more but I forgot them as I was typing lol. Those are some of the potential problems that I could see with the swap, but I'm no expert either so some of them may not be problems at all
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From: 20854
new balance
Rear end and axles will go before the tranny. In theory you wont ever break the tranny under normal driving conditions, as soon as enough power is applied the tires will break loose thus saving the tranny against the high TQ loads which are primarily in the lower RPM range. Track conditions with sticky tires and hard launches will usually result in the rear end or one of the axles letting go.
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From: Maryland
'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
If you remember way back in 2000 RENNtech built a CLK60 (from a CLK430) and installed a Getrag 6 speed manual. Ten years ago they charged $19K for the procedure. As with everything with the V12TT's it will be alot more expensive. I am sure that 10 years also will adjust that price for inflation. So I wouldn't be surprised if the procedure would now cost in the $40K range.
I am sure if you sent the current auto to Southern Hot Rod for fortification, custom tuning, VRP intercoolers and intake...you would fall way short of that $40K figure and would have killer performance that would be "safe".
BTW here is an article on that CLK60...Jay's neighbor was recently going to buy one of them:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k60/index.html
Tom
I am sure if you sent the current auto to Southern Hot Rod for fortification, custom tuning, VRP intercoolers and intake...you would fall way short of that $40K figure and would have killer performance that would be "safe".
BTW here is an article on that CLK60...Jay's neighbor was recently going to buy one of them:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k60/index.html
Tom
Last edited by TMC M5; Apr 3, 2009 at 11:13 AM.
Super Member
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Posts: 514
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From: Chicago
CL65
You can do anything with enough money. There would be a substantial cost involved as the majority of the components would have to be fabricated. Items such as pedal cluster, fluid reservoir and hydraulic lines, bell housing, flywheel, transmission mounts, driveshaft, and possible exhaust mods. I imagine the downtime on a project like this would be almost a year. Then you have to get into endless hours figuring out how to have the TCU eliminated, or reworked, so that the ECU can continue to function properly. That in itself may be a "mission impossible".
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 84
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From: Southeast
2003 S-600
Street tires will not necessarily save your tranny. As you shift into higher gears, you lose your torque multiplier, in turn allowing you to hook more power. A built transmission in not always the solution either. I have a fully built g-force in my TT-GTS with 1300 miles on it. A couple of Sundays ago, me and my girl were cruising down the interstate. I downshifted and rolled into the throttle in third gear. About halfway through the gear, it let loose. All I had left was 4th (direct drive). I was on Pirelli street tires making no more than 1000rw (at that speed). The car has never been to the dragstrip, or seen slicks. This is the same tranny (different car) that I went an 8.5 @ 170 in at the dragstrip with 30" slicks. Go figure.
My point is, you never know when something is going to let loose on you. So far, this w220 has been the best DD I have ever owned and I look forward to seeing where the bar is set when you guys are done with it. Figure out where the limit is and I'll meet ya'll there.
My point is, you never know when something is going to let loose on you. So far, this w220 has been the best DD I have ever owned and I look forward to seeing where the bar is set when you guys are done with it. Figure out where the limit is and I'll meet ya'll there.
