GARY JAVO

I think I am probably speaking for a lot of folks here:

My car will never see anything besides 93 octane. I have a stock exhast system. I am not looking for a dragster, but I would like to be able to smoke a Rennteched 600/65 on demand. What is a realistic rwhp number with nothing more than this system?

I am very excited about this product and look forward to your progress.

GJ

contigo

100% agree, plus 1

MarkoCL65

I dyno'd back to back with stock intercoolers and then with the VRP intercoolers. I picked up 180 lb ft of torque and 40 rwhp. The torque gain came from the VRP intercooler's ability to flow 3-4 more psi at peak boost. I'm not sure what the gains would be on a 600.

jmf003

Very impressive!

GARY JAVO

Any progress on this system? If you could, please dyno the car on 93 octane. That is all I need to decide on the package.

Thanks,
GJ

V12Godspeed

I will dyno this weekend on 93 and let you know. Stay posted.

GARY JAVO

Looking forward to it. Thanks.

E55AMGFan

That's amazing torque for rotating the world and your checkbook as you keep modding it. It would be great to see a full tuned 600 vs. 65 on the same mods comparing 93 pump and race gas 100 octane dyno numbers with similar conditions and dyno. I wonder how much can the engine on the car crank out once it's fine tuned, receives better A/F tuning, and has the intake, exhaust, and intercooler to maximize flow and cooling. Will it be possible to do 750rwhp and 1000rwtq while keeping timing and tuning safe on pump and race fuel?

MarkoCL65

I can tell you right now with a very high degree of certainty that you will not see 750 RWHP with the stock turbos. I believe that number can be hit with the upgraded turbo package that's being developed. It may even be able to hit 750RWHP on pump gas. We will find out.

E55AMGFan

Thanks Marko, I remember you from Supraforums and having that 1520rwhp dyno, you went from a white stock body Supra thats a monster to a stock looking CL65, I see you love your sleepers. VRUS said it best that to expect 725-735rwhp tops with 100 octane on the setup once it's tuned. It's pretty nice though that you guys can run same numbers on pump at just -2 degrees of timing. If you speak about 2 more turbos going in then 750rwhp is a number to small to acheive once you take into account in the 2 snails I saw in the 1000hp build thread.

If you don't mind how do you compare the monster th400 dawg vs. the more civilized, newer and cruising friendly (not to mention gobs of torque without revving too much) CL?

Gosh this place is a superstar spot , even Gary Javo is here, I remember his TT Viper.

LTHL VPR

My biggest concern is how the drivetrain/tranny will handle all that torque. If you noticed, the Black Series SL65 AMG needed a stout 5 speed tranny in order to handle the torque and they still had it limited to less than what people are running with the setup in this post. Something tells me the tranny can't handle the torque. I have to imagine a tranny replacement in a 600 or 65 would be EXTREMELY expensive. Has anyone checked to see the cost???

E55AMGFan

Transmission, sl600, sl65 04-08 $7,120.00

Torque converter, sl600, sl65 $1,220.00

Drive plate, sl600, sl65 $350.00
Extension housing seal, sl600, sl65 $2.70
Filter $18.00

Trans pan $85.00

Gasket $15.00

Roughly $9,000, $8,810.70 to be exact. I taken these prices from MileOneParts.com website for oem parts. Funny thing is that the SL55AMG stuff is a bit higher for the tranny and torque convertor. Also I see the CL600 drive plate is $460.

LTHL VPR

Thanks for doing the research. Is this for a new one or a rebuilt one? What about cost for installation. Still expensive piece if you explode one with too much torque

V12Godspeed

Marko has made 25+ hard passes and still has no problems...2 weeks on my car and various hard launches and passes. No Issues here...Thank God!..lol...
My tech keeps telling me they are bullet proof. I guess we will know in some distant future. We will cross that bridge if we come accross it.

Thericker

That's great info, the previous "parts & tranny costs" post makes it look like the 65/600 share the same tranny? Could you ask your tech to verify or does someone have definitive info on the matter?

Akademiks

I'm definitely not an expert on this issue, but I'm curious why no one is upgrading their tranny to the Viper tranny. They seem to hold up well despite the insane amount of power Hennessey dumps into them.

Then we could go stop all this "limiting" going on around here no?

bobgodd

The Viper uses a 6 speed manual, wouldn't that be quite difficult to mate up to an MB?

Akademiks

Idk, but alongside gaining the ability to delimit the car you also save some weight-- a win-win scenario. And I know a lot of people complain about not having manual available in Benzes so... I don't see the problem here.

bobgodd

I wouldn't call it a problem so much, but it would definitely be an involving task.

1. Getting the ECU to function properly without an automatic transmission to electronically control may or may not be as easy as tuning the transmission "out".
2. Fitting a third pedal in the drivers side foot well may not be easy because I'm sure there is a lot of electronics down there that would need to be relocated.
3. I haven't heard of any manual tranny's in any of the late-model AMG's so finding the proper fitting flywheels and what-not to mate the engine to the transmission may or may not be straight forward.
4. Custom driveshaft?
5. Custom transmission mounts and crossmember?
6. Fitting a shifter into the interior shouldn't be too hard, but would probably require custom finish pieces..
7. I'm not sure how much the ESP functions are tied into the transmission but that may or may not work correctly.
8. Possible loss of keyless-go start functioning.
9. VSS programming, may or may not be easy.


I had a couple more but I forgot them as I was typing lol. Those are some of the potential problems that I could see with the swap, but I'm no expert either so some of them may not be problems at all

Akademiks

Maybe VRP/Marko can chime in tomorrow and shed some light on this issue... I'd like to do it if it's possible and decently priced.

JAYCL600

Rear end and axles will go before the tranny. In theory you wont ever break the tranny under normal driving conditions, as soon as enough power is applied the tires will break loose thus saving the tranny against the high TQ loads which are primarily in the lower RPM range. Track conditions with sticky tires and hard launches will usually result in the rear end or one of the axles letting go.

TMC M5

If you remember way back in 2000 RENNtech built a CLK60 (from a CLK430) and installed a Getrag 6 speed manual. Ten years ago they charged $19K for the procedure. As with everything with the V12TT's it will be alot more expensive. I am sure that 10 years also will adjust that price for inflation. So I wouldn't be surprised if the procedure would now cost in the $40K range.

I am sure if you sent the current auto to Southern Hot Rod for fortification, custom tuning, VRP intercoolers and intake...you would fall way short of that $40K figure and would have killer performance that would be "safe".


BTW here is an article on that CLK60...Jay's neighbor was recently going to buy one of them:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k60/index.html

Tom

MarkoCL65

You can do anything with enough money. There would be a substantial cost involved as the majority of the components would have to be fabricated. Items such as pedal cluster, fluid reservoir and hydraulic lines, bell housing, flywheel, transmission mounts, driveshaft, and possible exhaust mods. I imagine the downtime on a project like this would be almost a year. Then you have to get into endless hours figuring out how to have the TCU eliminated, or reworked, so that the ECU can continue to function properly. That in itself may be a "mission impossible".

GARY JAVO

Street tires will not necessarily save your tranny. As you shift into higher gears, you lose your torque multiplier, in turn allowing you to hook more power. A built transmission in not always the solution either. I have a fully built g-force in my TT-GTS with 1300 miles on it. A couple of Sundays ago, me and my girl were cruising down the interstate. I downshifted and rolled into the throttle in third gear. About halfway through the gear, it let loose. All I had left was 4th (direct drive). I was on Pirelli street tires making no more than 1000rw (at that speed). The car has never been to the dragstrip, or seen slicks. This is the same tranny (different car) that I went an 8.5 @ 170 in at the dragstrip with 30" slicks. Go figure.

My point is, you never know when something is going to let loose on you. So far, this w220 has been the best DD I have ever owned and I look forward to seeing where the bar is set when you guys are done with it. Figure out where the limit is and I'll meet ya'll there.

blackbenzz

^ I remember you from the killer vipers you've owned! Welcome to the site and glad to see you picked up a benz