Question for Quaife Owners?
09-20-2009, 12:54 PM
#51
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'09 E63 AMG sedan (sold); E36 M3, E90 M3
Quaife is a very nice addition to the car. Points to note....
It will not make you get more power down when weight is evenly applied to both rear wheels and both wheels have the same level of traction. It stops the unloaded wheel from spinning and washing all you power into smoke. Both wheels might end up spinning but at least your loaded wheel is working hard. It basically allows you to get the power down out of corner/in corners much (MUCH) earlier and with alot more confidence. As a result the car is easier to drive hard, and to balance.
Even in a straight line ESP intervenes much less, but still comes on of course.
Fitting is relatively simple but getting the pumpkin out is non trivial. Lots of heavy bits to move about and the plug in side shafts mean one rear wheel carrier has to come off. This means one rear brake caliper has to come off... and those bolts can be very sticky...
Typically no shimms are required, but you need to have this done properly to make the unit last... you have to check backlash... It seems they are mostly plug and play.
Nothing to do on the ECU / EGS fits into the electronics seamlessly.
When you fit it consider getting 2.82 gearing, or getting a donor SL55 diff fitting the Quaife to that and re-re ing the diffs. I know there are some EGS concerns which you need to take into consideration, but while you have the unit out off the car its something to consider. I am not looking back at all right now...
even though the EGS is not 100% resolved - not gearing wise - but sharpened shifting times and load limits have made the car very "unsmooth".... this is still a WIP.
It will not make you get more power down when weight is evenly applied to both rear wheels and both wheels have the same level of traction. It stops the unloaded wheel from spinning and washing all you power into smoke. Both wheels might end up spinning but at least your loaded wheel is working hard. It basically allows you to get the power down out of corner/in corners much (MUCH) earlier and with alot more confidence. As a result the car is easier to drive hard, and to balance.
Even in a straight line ESP intervenes much less, but still comes on of course.
Fitting is relatively simple but getting the pumpkin out is non trivial. Lots of heavy bits to move about and the plug in side shafts mean one rear wheel carrier has to come off. This means one rear brake caliper has to come off... and those bolts can be very sticky...
Typically no shimms are required, but you need to have this done properly to make the unit last... you have to check backlash... It seems they are mostly plug and play.
Nothing to do on the ECU / EGS fits into the electronics seamlessly.
When you fit it consider getting 2.82 gearing, or getting a donor SL55 diff fitting the Quaife to that and re-re ing the diffs. I know there are some EGS concerns which you need to take into consideration, but while you have the unit out off the car its something to consider. I am not looking back at all right now...
even though the EGS is not 100% resolved - not gearing wise - but sharpened shifting times and load limits have made the car very "unsmooth".... this is still a WIP.Last edited by Dr. G; 09-21-2009 at 06:06 AM.
09-23-2009, 11:24 PM
#54
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'09 E63 AMG sedan (sold); E36 M3, E90 M3
got it back, it went in without much drama, other than needing to find a replacement bearing, didn't need any shims. I have yet to thrash it to feel it out. well, let's be honest, since the car only has 402 mi on it, I haven't owned it long enough to really get to know it, so differences might be hard to appreciate....but come snow/ice, I surely will appreciate the lsd, and next spring, she will see the track, where i expect better cornering (though may not have a good comparo reference to the oem open diff)
Last edited by Dr. G; 09-23-2009 at 11:30 PM.
09-23-2009, 11:37 PM
#55
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2015 S212
got it back, it went in without much drama, other than needing to find a replacement bearing, didn't need any shims. I have yet to thrash it to feel it out. well, let's be honest, since the car only has 402 mi on it, I haven't owned it long enough to really get to know it, so differences might be hard to appreciate....but come snow/ice, I surely will appreciate the lsd, and next spring, she will see the track, where i expect better cornering (though may not have a good comparo reference to the oem open diff)
NICE!! Keep us posted
09-23-2009, 11:48 PM
#56
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'09 E63 AMG sedan (sold); E36 M3, E90 M3
neither mb Nor tranny shop. It was a local performance shop, specializing mostly in Audi's but their senior dude knows his way around a rear end (snicker, snicker), and a gear box is a gear box. He also had access to the excellent write up done here
Last edited by Dr. G; 09-23-2009 at 11:55 PM.
09-29-2009, 02:42 PM
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'09 E63 AMG sedan (sold); E36 M3, E90 M3
Perhaps a silly question...
Are the benefits of the Quaife only really evident when traction control is disabled? I ask because if the nanny steps in when there is wheel slippage (dropping power or even braking), then do you get the benefit of having a LSD with it intervening? Or is there enough slippage allowed, that when one wheel begins to slip, the Quaife has the chance to send power to the other wheel before the nanny steps in?
thanks
Are the benefits of the Quaife only really evident when traction control is disabled? I ask because if the nanny steps in when there is wheel slippage (dropping power or even braking), then do you get the benefit of having a LSD with it intervening? Or is there enough slippage allowed, that when one wheel begins to slip, the Quaife has the chance to send power to the other wheel before the nanny steps in?
thanks
09-30-2009, 04:35 AM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
No. Basically it gets drive to both rear wheels as best it can... its got variable lock up due to the helical gear config which I don't have a clue how it works, but its pure mechanics from what I understand. So the Quaife can lock anything from 0-100%. So if one wheel lets go the diff locks more and more until things even up... so less nanny.
If anyone knows how it works mechanically please explain!!
This does mean you need to have one wheel slip slightly before it kicks in though... some guys dont like this but for the majority it works a treat.
The Q just delays the onset of the ESP... and sometimes prevents it from kicking in alltogther. ESP is very sensitve to left/right rear wheel speed deltas.. less sensitive to front/rear speed deltas... so you get less ESP activity, generally.
I would never turn ESP off in this car on public roads....
If anyone knows how it works mechanically please explain!!
This does mean you need to have one wheel slip slightly before it kicks in though... some guys dont like this but for the majority it works a treat.
The Q just delays the onset of the ESP... and sometimes prevents it from kicking in alltogther. ESP is very sensitve to left/right rear wheel speed deltas.. less sensitive to front/rear speed deltas... so you get less ESP activity, generally.
I would never turn ESP off in this car on public roads....
09-30-2009, 11:26 AM
#61
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'09 E63 AMG sedan (sold); E36 M3, E90 M3
ok, thansk steve. I get it now. BTW, I had not planned on doing much driving around town with the esp off
Last edited by Dr. G; 09-30-2009 at 11:29 AM.
09-30-2009, 06:29 PM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
only have this pic that shows some more
but I would also like to see a slow-movie of it while working !
as per what I understand the locking effect is triggered by the same causes, i.e. thrust forces resulting from wheel slip.
While in traditional clutch-style LSD these forces cause a spring (choosen according to a preset load ) to pack the friction plates together and hence the locking of axles to take place, in this Quaife device there are gears (instead of plates) who "pack together". They are those particular "helical gear pinions" which are built to some extent free to "float" within their seat.
In the event of wheel slip, the axial and radial forces thrust the pinions and gears to mesh together, hence causing a locking effect.
because of the particular design of the pockets where the helical pinions are seating and relatively free to float, the locking effect results more progressive and not sudden as in a traditional spring loaded LSD ...
Last edited by dyno; 09-30-2009 at 06:35 PM.
10-01-2009, 06:24 PM
#64
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worms gears
.. the full story of these so called " worms gears" is a bit boring
but, for when you'll be really willing
here's their main patent (1985) fully described with drawings and everything
(from European Patent Office)
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationD...C&locale=en_EP
here, the latest version 2003, with more springs and plates ..
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationD...C&locale=en_EP
and here's a quite similar style, with some improvements (as you can see in the description window, comparing to quaife and others)
Don't know if it has ever been produced, industrially :
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?...DISPLAY=STATUS
but, for when you'll be really willing
here's their main patent (1985) fully described with drawings and everything
(from European Patent Office)
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationD...C&locale=en_EP
here, the latest version 2003, with more springs and plates ..
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationD...C&locale=en_EP
and here's a quite similar style, with some improvements (as you can see in the description window, comparing to quaife and others)
Don't know if it has ever been produced, industrially :
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?...DISPLAY=STATUS
10-01-2009, 11:56 PM
#65
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1969 280S, 1991 300E
Don't even think about turning the ESP off and hitting the gas while on ice or snow. It is more than capable otherwise, but...
I could not believe how uncontrollable the car was. I spent a good hour one day last year in an empty parking lot trying to do a simple 90 degree turn while on the throttle. What did i find out? It is virtually impossible not to spin out.
BTW, I had brand new Blizzak LM-25's on.
I am interested to see how your car handles the snow with an LSD. I would think it would add a lot in the winter.
10-02-2009, 09:07 AM
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'09 E63 AMG sedan (sold); E36 M3, E90 M3
I will report back. Fortunately Minneapolis is plenty COLD, but not a lot of snow. I will be gentle and keep her in C transmission mode to help, and yes I hope the Quaife will help some. If it still sucks, there's my excuse to buy a stage 3 B5 Audi S4 for winter thrashing. "But Honey, I need this, they're cheap and you surely don't want me to die out there"
