prodigymb

that is the biggest issue, and is the reason why we want to try different things to get around it.

prodigymb

not sure how you got 17,700 btw. surface area of a sphere with diameter 150mm is 70,686mm .....since the mushroom is half of that I get 35,343mm

sphere surface area = 4 * 3.14 * (radius * radius)

17,700 is the surface area of a circle with D=150mm ........unless that's what they use to advertise now that i think about. gonna measure mine.

JustPete

Admittedly I fudged by not using a sphere shape (And figured someone would bring it up ) ... but I also used a rectangle shape instead of calculating the pleats which effectively double the filtration area.

Suffice it to say, the numbers would play out equally as bad ratio wise.

Finally ... figure that square are that allows flow through vs the 80mm hole in that mushroom.

Trust me on this .... there's no contest which could allow more airflow.

It's not even close.

Max.H

A lot of interesting comments in this thread...

HKS mushroom filters have been use on supras, skylines and several other high hp F/I cars for years. I have seen these filters attached to 3 and 4 inch pipes that lead right to the turbo and even seen them right on the turbo itself. I have used them in the past on my previous cars without any issues. I'm sure if you neglect any filter it would deteriorate over time. The foam filter being no different. I doubt its going get sucked through the SC.

Prodigy please chime back in with your results. I have a feeling they will be favorable over stock with aftermarket filters. I also suspect the SC whine to be more prominent as well.

JustPete

I'm certainly not suggesting the filter will just implode brand new. But if not kept clean it will become detrimental fast.

I have no doubt that a lot of racers of all sorts use them. I have too. But you have to maintain them with a much tighter maintenance schedule. I'm not even suggesting that's hard to do. It's just something to keep in mind.

I definitely think though that, 1 is not enough, especially for a daily driver. 1 drive through a dusty area and that filter will become a detriment.

I'm also interested to see his results though. I'm wondering if he's not going to be pulling even warmer air in that area of the engine compartment.

High in the back of the engine compartment is probably where the majority of heat resides. Close to the vent that is supposed to pull heat out, he'll possibly be intercepting that hot air.

Max.H

That sounds reasonable. At this point I think we are all speculating though. Strange thing is I have tried stuff that doesn't work on paper but work like magic on the track or real world driving conditions. I like to think outside the box.

JustPete

I'm with you there buddy!

When we tested intakes for Vtwins I was pretty amazed what works and what doesn't.

What you thought for sure would work ... works like crap.

For a VTwin a long intake with a large box of static air works by far the best. It just happens to look like a$$. Longer intake tube always yielded great torque gains.

"Ram Air" systems always took power away ... but look Awesome.

K&N type filters typically beat everything else ... but I don't trust their filtration very much.

Max.H

Yupp!

That's interesting stuff. The ram air horn looks better though.

Anytime you lengthen intake runners on a intake manifold you gain tq but lose HP up top. If you shorten them you lose a little down low but you gain up top. Basically just moving the graph over to the right. Might be the same for intake pipe as well. <<< Need actual test data to back it up though.


This setup would require more maintenance. But could be a worthwhile mod and at least its very easy to do. Unscrew the little knob and pop in a new filter.

prodigymb

i kinda got the short intake idea from a buddy that is into the 3.8 superhcharged GM motors. which like ours fight major heat.....those things don't even have the air/water cooler like we do. he is actually an engineer(in a differnet field tho) and has sweet fab skills....that's all irrelevant though.

basically for those cars they can do a short intake that sits in the engibe bay or a long intake that goes into the fender well. to make the long story short IATs a lower with the short intake and they make more power.

i know that the air that i will be sucking in will be hot even with those vents there ....without a doubt. question is will it be hotter or cooler then it is now

sneakyneon

If your worried about heat under the hood check out my post on IAT temps. I'm starting to think the IAT sensor has a mind of its own. I'd like to see 1/4 miles testing of intakes to see what works for hp. I don't feel a dyno is were your going to see much change with intakes due to air flow restrictions.

Max.H

OK, soldier it's time to install this bad boy and tell us what you think? Not trying to name drop but Rentech used this setup before.

prodigymb

i will ! car is in service. i should get it back tommorrow or Monday

str8ridin

JustPete,

What are your thoughts on air pressure/turbulance for our intakes? Specifically, would running our cars without the front grill on the drag strip help? Or would it create more turbulance thus negating any bennefit?

Would you say our intake needs to pull from a low pressure or high pressure area or does it it not make a difference?

jangy

It is an easy 0.1 second!! Seriously though, butt dyno can tell a big difference with and without the grill. That is why i have always wanted one with fewer slats.

markabcls55

Not sure of other engine designs, but the Yamaha built Ford SHO Taurus used a long/short intake runner system for that very same reason.

At any RPM below 3950, the long runners provide good low RPM torque. Once you hit 3950, vacuum actuated butterflies snap open in front of the short runners for HP gains.

jangy

I honestly don't mind losing bottom end at all. I want top end and am willing to give a bunch at the bottom.

Max.H

Yupp, A lot of cars use that. I did a manifold swap on a 2006 bmw 3 series that had the butterfly's that open and close at higher rpm.


I wish I removed my grill at the last track event! I can only imagine that with a pair of air scoops.

itsmeek

This type of filter was always a no-no w/the supras and the dsm's. I don't know how they will work w/the mercedes.

prodigymb

why is that? plenty of supra people use these

JustPete

I'd just be guessing at this point. All I know is that with a N/A engine , the larger the box of static air it had to draw from, the better the performance was.

Turbulence seemed to act like a venturi, actually fighting the suction of the engine.

Everything changes with forced induction, but I have to believe it will still draw more easily with a static air source. Ideally I'd think the air filter boxes would do best away from the heat of the engine somewhere nearer to the ground, but I don't think anyone would want to have to put their car on a lift to change the air filters.

I'd be more inclined to cover that front with a smooth bubble for a better Cd but that of course would create heat issues. Unless ...

JustPete

Torque is king with Vtwins. And honestly the most fun.

JustPete

That's brilliant!

itsmeek

Because they VERY OFTEN clog and cause huge problems. The K&N style filters are much safer and last way longer. I always see problems with the foam style filters.

JustPete

That'd be my concern as well.

Definitely don't trust what the manufacturer says about it's cleaning cycle.

And unlike a N/A engine, that SC will suck that foam right out of that mushroom.

I'd never try that on the TB. These engines are too expensive, and when they're pulling foam out of the SC say good bye to any warranty.

JustPete

You know, if you're really interested in doing something like this, (And I believe you are) I have a design idea that would smoke that mushroom using a K&N set up. I'd have to see what would fit but it would give much better flow and way more filtration area. Fabbing it up would be easy.