rarfinancial

Damn All I can think about is
WHEN IS THE NEXT TRACK EVENT

MO you're up man, What's next? Oh and I know you are ready to start moding

bassn_07

Rick and I had some great races . The very first one was horrible on my part. My burnout was weak, lost traction, and got schooled very badly on the R/T. I had a .38 to Rick's .125 and a 2.250 to Ricks 2.00 60' time, very well done Rick. The only other time I lost at the track was my 1st time out at Sacramento. I once again felt that long awaited adrenaline rush I've been missing ! This was a new kind of high and I can't wait for our next meeting.

Here's the motivation :

bassn_07

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the Acura that whooped me on the Friday night. Too emabarassing to talk about and I'm hoping those horrible thoughts just goes away .

Thanks for the video's Josh, I think . I even heard Bill mention "what happened to his burnout" . What's up with the other videos? You should post all because Rick and I missed them all.

Mikesamg

Haha yea I wish I had the video of that. You took off and I looked to see if he went and I could here him giving it his best. Then I got on it and still walked him.

Mikesamg

Awesome job Alan but Rick is going to bring it for sure in Sac. Time to get on some secret mods of your own!

bassn_07

This was funny as hell. Mike and I were heading towards Fontana about midnight and here comes this lous a$$ Acura. He flies up and just paces me waiting for me to go. After a long day just for shi!t and giggle I decided what the hell. I ended up leaving him there as though he never left. I decide to slow down and just cruise, can anyone guess what happened next !!!

Mikesamg

I don't know but what ever it was it flew but hella fast and loud. It was a blur, maybe something was on my glasses distorting my vision but it must have been a super car

juicee63

The end of the day was captured mainly by the professional camera crew.

I have a compilation vid coming, but wanted to get the two runs I had of you and Rick off my camera.

Yep Bill and I bothe were perplexed with your lack of a burn out, then your failed launch, spin etc.. Your car nearly compensated for the error.

you are a class act and the Flag is in good hands. Im certain there will be an attempt soon to reclaim it.

Rest my friends, just imagine what 60 DEGREES WILL BE LIKE!

bassn_07

BTW...I forgot to give props to Lisa for her outstanding performance !!!! She held her own plus giving out some of this .

I would also like to give thanks to Rick and Josh for hosting and supplying everything needed to make the day a great one. Also, thanks to the camera man (forgot your name...sorry) . It was worth while and I can't wait for the next one .

Thanks Rick for the gas, hopefully you'll let me get you back on the next one. We have a eight hour drag day coming up in the beginning of August. The session is great because all the draggers come out leaving a nice patch of rubber for the few street cars that show. When we were there not one street car had street tires on. Good traction through out the day. How about MO? Josh, probably hard for you but try to find the time to make it...it's a blast having you around. Billlll....come out and play. Rick, I'm really hoping you could make this because if we get lucky and get a nice cool day...it's on!!!!



Fri...August 7 Test and Tune
Drag Racing All vehicles must pass a regular tech inspection. Vehicles quicker than 10 seconds will run single passes.
Times: Pit Gates Open: 10:00am. Testing 12:00pm-4:00pm and 6:00pm-10:00pm
Admission: General Admission: $10
Racers: $100 car and driver for 12:00pm - 10:00pm.
$50 (car and driver) for 6:00pm-10:00pm .

juicee63

Lisa Rocks.

I hope we can get a crew up there for this.

Rick just needs to sell 20 more cars and he is out of them, guess he can retire then.

I am on my first real week of work , WOOOHOOO.

But , ABSOLUTELY , there is always time for a race day!


Hopefully I can finish vidfs tonight.

Im still sore!

Mo you have to be there next time

James@ACG

I'm glad you guys all had a blast!

I tried to make up it, but woke up with my foot the size of a grape fruit... 2 fractured bones on my 4th toe

Rick, we'll have to do a sac trip, but we gotta get those others mods on.... alan and Mike I'll see you in a couple weeks

prodigymb

you guys are insane for racing in 100 degree weather - just incase you didnt know that already.

Alan what was your dragtimes.com corrected time (for temp and elevation) ?

MJ50

sorry i missed out...
had to put new tires and replace tint on wifey's car...
next time when weather is nicer...

Mikesamg

That sucks James and it wasn't even a decent car that did it!

Thanks for the awesome work you did at such short notice. When you see us you might want to bring an extra CF front lip for Alan.

James@ACG

Hahah lol what happened? I have 2 on order so no worries.

Not a problem, I'm glad we got you in. I'll be up there July 31st, if I have some goodies in I'll bring them with me.

bassn_07

My corrected times match up my Sacramento times with a difference of 3000. From my experience using the NA calculator puts it right on the money. I'll keep on testing that calculation to see how it works out. Do not use the " highly modified FI calculation", not even close. Of course in IMO and with what I experienced. From what I'm told it's the fastest and quickest E at Fontana so far. the next best was a 1.7xx and a best trap of 119 ran in January.

Saying we're nuts is an understatement...lol. I really wanted to race with Rick and he did not dissapoint. He's a cool guy with a gorgeous and fast *** car. All of our races came down to the end.

ZGlide

Here's my tribute to everyone on 7/18 at the "Heart Break Track".....

Rick, Lisa, and the Team AMG crew (Steve and Evan):
Thank you for the refreshments, electrolyte, and shelter that kept me alive through the heat! You've also redefined the meaning of the phrase "all show and ALL GO"! TEAM AMG ROCKS!!

Allan:
What a show you've put on representing E55s! If the already awed crowd knew about your 400 mile drive home only changing out your wheels after pulling 11.6, they would all hail to the Tri star.

Mike:
Thanks for showing me the path! Now I have an idea where to go next with my car. Slowly I will try to catch you one day (maybe I can if you stop modding and wait for me)!

Josh:
A great guy and the bestest coach on the track. Thank you for all the guidance and analysis through each run. You analyzed and explained each person's time slips, and made progress possible. Next time I'll offer a few more cheeseburgers so I have a better chance against your deadly holeshot.


The best part of running down the track in an AMG is knowing that we can clock times like these,drive straight off the track, pick up our family and friends, and head to a fancy restaurant and our cars will still fit in.

Marcus Frost

Sounds like a fun event. I want to apologize up front here as I know some people are going to misconstrue what I'm saying as inflammatory but sometimes being a contributing member to this forum also involves playing devil's advocate, and it seems like an alternative perspective is needed in this situation.

Where are you guys getting 4700ft DA from? Yes, ambient temperature is high but you also have little humidity during peak temps. Dry heat is not nearly as bad as humid heat (like we have here in the midwest and the boys down in FL). Peak DA from what I see was around 4300ft PEAK. Still high, but less than advertised, and certainly not the DA for the entire day.

Moving along - Rick there is no way your NITROUS car is going to in real life "correct" from 119-120mph to 127mph. Not going to happen. I don't know what correction factor you are using, maybe it's one for a mildly modified/stock N/A car but no way you are going to see that kind of a jump from DA. Nitrous is just about the best cylinder/intake charge cooling money can buy and will offset most of that dry heat really quickly - especially with a 100 shot or greater. My take is you are more in the range of 124-125mph with the best conditions possible.

I don't like correction factors. They are misleading. Whether it be correction to flywheel HP numbers, DA, etc - I don't think they often tell the true story. The truth is that almost nobody races in 0 or low DA... even at 65 degrees Fontana still has a DA of 1500ft with 25% humidity. If we are going to start using DAs to correct everything we'd go insane. DAs can be used as a reason for times being off, but using them as a credible correction factor to give actual times is a farce at best - with an exception being a stock, non-forced induction car... you might be able to get it close there fairly often.

You guys ran times that were understandably not going to break records b/c of conditions. The truth is, most people never run in ideal conditions. Take your numbers for what they are worth and try to get back to the track when conditions are more favorable. Records only matter when they are actually run, not when they are "calculated", so this should more serve as motivation to try again than to try and make assumptions, IMO...

-m

MB_Forever

Marcus, I think you misunderstood everyone here regarding DA corrections..... no one took their corrected time to be record-breaking nor did they count that as an official run. All they said was that in near zero conditions, the car "should" run x time @ y trap speeds. Density altitude makes a HUGE difference here in California tracks (maybe even more than Chicago sometimes). Fontana is one of the worst now that LACR is closed down.

Regarding the DA, I just spoke to a friend of mine who belongs to the Mustang club, and he said measured DA at the track was as high as +4785 ft. Where did you get +4300 ft??? To see how accurate the DA conversions are, please take Alan's times and correct it down to +1700 ft (which was the DA at Sacramento during his 11.2x run), and I'm positive, you will get very close times to what he ran: 11.2 to 11.3 @ 127-128 mph.

Please note that no one is saying we should take the corrections and replace what the car ran, but most are saying that we should expect the car to run around the corrected time at good (or sea level) conditions. Many people have a chance to run at ideal conditions, and some are even lucky to run in better than ideal conditions with 40 F temps and DA of -2000 ft.

Marcus Frost

Mo,

Thanks for the level headed reply... I was expecting a flame fest but would much rather keep things respectable, and I appreciate you doing the same.

My point about DA is that it gets used a bit too much, and it's unreliable. There was a stupid song back years ago by this rapper named Too Short where he talked about if he was taller, if he was a baller () and I get the same feeling about DA. DA corrections are a "what if". What ifs are great but you can only go so far with them. I corrected the temperatures I got from the net to 4300ft at peak, normally around 4000ft. You finding something different even further supports my point about the trivialness of DA. It's just something for reference and even trying to correct out times using it is really silly IMO. As far as I see it, people ran fast in less-than-optimal conditions. What they would run in optimal conditions is anyone's guess, at best. If I was able to run in optimal conditions everytime I hit the drag strip, I would be one happy man. This pursuit of 0/negative DAs is not reflective of reality and I think people need to target the best they can given what they are dealt with, not "what ifs"

The same thing is for dyno correction factors... I mean drivetrain loss is so hard to figure out... yet people like to take them as gospel. It's impossible to really calculate a completely accurate drivetrain loss, especially on modified cars because even if at factory levels if DT loss is 18%, doesn't mean that it goes up in a linear fashion as a car makes more power. Sure, certain things do increase with power as the laws of thermal dynamics require it, but I mean in the end you are talking about numbers that are estimates realistically and should try to be avoided...

Again, just my opinion...

-m

bassn_07

Haha...I knew you would chime in play devils advocate.

I remember when we spoke you mentioned that running in conditions similar to what I ran at Sacramento would have little affect on ET's and trap speeds. Now that I ran at a different track at a much higher DA I would have to disagree. I have time slips to prove the difference if questioned. You definitely have more knowledge than myself in regards to all the technical mumbo jumbo but I have actual hard numbers to prove otherwise. Please post some time slips of your car in similar conditions and lets go from there.

Marcus, if your stating that DA isn't affecting our cars that much can you explain why my car ran a 11.236 @ 128 at 1600 and 11.644 @ 122 at close to 5000. Do you think my car is only fast at Sacramento and Famoso but not at Fontana? This is a serious question and I would like your thoughts. Please be as honest as I expect you to be.

Edit: I just read your last posting and I would agree that DA corrections wouldn't be that accurate but still could be used as a tool to help understand on how your car performs in different conditions. If I'm not mistaken NHRA uses that same correction, I might be totally wrong here but I'm just repeating what I was told.

Marcus Frost

Alan,

I was specifically talking about Rick and his 6.3 engine, not yours when I was talking about his correction. You have a closed air-to-water cooling system with a lot of boost and an ECU highly sensitive to IATs. You will suffer on that day to the tune of a few MPH - no question, as will most people, and you will also suffer more than a nitrous fed normally aspirated car.

As I had said above Alan, I am not saying that cars aren't being affected - I think Rick is losing 4-5mph. I said that specifically. He is not losing 7-8mph. My real point behind my post was how DAs should really be points of discussion rather than seen as science. You have a great point of reference for your particular motor... +6mph from those two days. However, your motor is unique and for rick to try to use a similar correction for this 6.3 liter modified V8 DOHC nitrous motor simply does not work. DA will have different effects on different cars are really are speculative "what ifs". You don't need a DA calculation, you have your own. From 1600 to 4000 you saw 5-6mph.[/quote]

Edit: I just read your last posting and I would agree that DA corrections wouldn't be that accurate but still could be used as a tool to help understand on how your car performs in different conditions. If I'm not mistaken NHRA uses that same correction, I might be totally wrong here but I'm just repeating what I was told.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely DA is something used by the NHRA, for NHRA events and NHRA cars. We don't have NHRA cars and we aren't running at NHRA events. DA effects cars very differently depending on their setup and again, my point is pretty much in line with yours - DA is a useful tool, as it can explain certain things and help paint a picture... but it is far from scientific and trying to extrapolate what-if numbers will ultimately yield to numbers that have little value and less credibility.

I would like to see your guy's time slips with the time of day, and the 1/8th mile times/speeds.

-m

MB_Forever

Marcus, first let me say that I personally don't mind at all hearing or reading opposing points of view, but I really think we are mostly agreeing on this topic more than we are disagreeing . No one here was implying that DA corrections should be used to represent times that have been ran. Again, most of us (at least here on the west coast) are saying that DA corrections can affect times greatly and are mainly a good way to give an "educated" guess on what your car would run in more optimal conditions (given others factors stay the same: same car, same driver, more or less ame 60' time, same weight, etc....). I have tested this to death along side Juicee. We took our cars to Sacramento, Fontana, Irwindale, Famoso, LACR, and Josh even went to Arizona a couple of times (yeah, he's dedicated ). Almost all the times we got at different DAs were times predicted by DA conversions. For example, if you take my time of 12.5x @ 3500 ft (ran at Fontana) and corrected down to 1600 ft (at Famoso), you'll get the exact same times I ran: 12.2x. I have plenty of similar time comparisons from different tracks.

Regarding the temp values you got from the net.... although sometimes they are accurate, Albert and others have proven that sometimes they are not. The best way to get accurate readings is directly from the track. In most events, someone brings a weather station, which serves as a good reference point.

Anyways, soon we will run at Famoso again and if we hit a DA of 500 ft or lower, I'm confident, Alan's car will get the same times as predicted by the DA conversions. Unless of course he decides to run at MIR in which his car will destroy even those estimates . Regarding Rick's car, I'm not sure how that will go since I've never followed data from NOS powered cars before. My understanding is as you have stated previously: that NOS powered vehicles don't get much of a conversion factor. But it'd be very interesting to see what Rick's car could do in better weather conditions anyways.

This is undoubtedly very interesting data, and more of it only leads to more excitement for us enthusiasts

MB_Forever

I believe NHRA uses a constant correction table of altitude only.... although there's been some controversy on how the table values have been calculated as to whether they used DA or not

bassn_07

There's a thought! I know Mike was trying to get a group together and if that's the case I would be very interested. I think it would be great to see how the West coast E's matchup against the East coast boys. Rick....come on man, I know you want to represent Team AMG! Can you imagine how much money would be spent prior to this event with everyone scrambling to make their cars faster ....

As far as this DA discussion goes, Rick get on down here with your same setup and lets do it. After that you'll have your own correction factor and that would answer many questions or doubts. I'll go ahead and start a new thread to give people time to make it.