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Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures)

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Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures)

 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:50 AM
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thanks for the heat wrap test. i will try it....does it mater what type of heat wrap????
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RICKS_E55AMG View Post
thanks for the heat wrap test. i will try it....does it mater what type of heat wrap????
As long as you use a good quality exhaust wrap you should be fine.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Full Throttle View Post
You really need to do that test with hood closed while driving to get a much better sense if the heat reduction.
+100 , without doing this in closed hood conditions on the go, it doesn't really tell you anything. Simply allowing the engine to cool down, or changing the time from startup when you make the measurement could get you same results. Doing it with engine bay closed, that is the real test.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
+100 , without doing this in closed hood conditions on the go, it doesn't really tell you anything. Simply allowing the engine to cool down, or changing the time from startup when you make the measurement could get you same results. Doing it with engine bay closed, that is the real test.
Just for your satisfaction I will do the REAL TEST with the hood close.
Do you all share space with motorwerks, I go there a lot.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:55 PM
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I was reading the FORZA ferrari magazine and found this supercharged 599 using the same technics with the wrap on both side of the air intake.


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Old 08-13-2009, 05:59 PM
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wow thats good to know.

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Old 08-13-2009, 06:02 PM
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Ya man, if they are doing the same. I am sure they know this will definitely reduce the heat. I really want to try it out on my E63.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Cedric1031 View Post
Ya man, if they are doing the same. I am sure they know this will definitely reduce the heat. I really want to try it out on my E63.
dooo iiit lol . Its a cheap mod anyway.

Andy
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:08 PM
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Devil's advocate here.....


What about the thought that at W.O.T, the air passing through the intake tubes is moving at such a velocity, that the couple of degrees that you gain at idle, have no effect on performance when you're running flat out?

Discuss.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Benz-O-Rama View Post
Devil's advocate here.....


What about the thought that at W.O.T, the air passing through the intake tubes is moving at such a velocity, that the couple of degrees that you gain at idle, have no effect on performance when you're running flat out?

Discuss.
the insulation would help prevent the heat transfer from the engine bay to the plastic air intake tubes or boxes prior to WOT. So at WOT when air rushes in, it will not pick up as heat much when traveling through the tubes and boxes as it would have before when not insulated/heat wrapped.

this can help keep temps down at the track if you are not moving with your car on i would imagine while in the staging lanes.

a data logger is really needed to confirm all of this with the hood down and under driving conditions.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jturkel View Post
the insulation would help prevent the heat transfer from the engine bay to the plastic air intake tubes or boxes prior to WOT. So at WOT when air rushes in, it will not pick up as heat much when traveling through the tubes and boxes as it would have before when not insulated/heat wrapped.

this can help keep temps down at the track if you are not moving with your car on i would imagine while in the staging lanes.

a data logger is really needed to confirm all of this with the hood down and under driving conditions.
+1

The thing I wonder about, though - once everything in the engine bay gets up to temp equilibrium... will the insulating wrap slow down how quickly the tubes cool off? Logically, it would seem to... but IDK. Datalog FTW!
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM View Post
+1

The thing I wonder about, though - once everything in the engine bay gets up to temp equilibrium... will the insulating wrap slow down how quickly the tubes cool off? Logically, it would seem to... but IDK. Datalog FTW!
this has come up before, and its interesting to think about. there are special intake wraps (that are specially made for insulation on intakes) and then there are the exhaust wraps that people use on the intakes as well. i always imagined that they made the intake one for a reason and not just to make more money and aesthetics.

the exhaust wraps act as a barrier for heat to transfer from the engine bay to the intake, but does it also trap heat in the intake once there and preventing its dissipation? after all, this is the purpose of wrapping the exhaust with exhaust wrap, is it not?

also, perhaps the insulation works so well, the tubes and boxes don't get that hot and the heat to be lost is little to negligible?

this, again, would be something interesting to monitor with a data logger. i'll hopefully be getting mine soon and can do some tests why i buy material. JustPete already has his intake wrapped and will be getting data logging too, so he might do some tests and beat me to it!
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Benz-O-Rama View Post
Devil's advocate here.....

What about the thought that at W.O.T, the air passing through the intake tubes is moving at such a velocity, that the couple of degrees that you gain at idle, have no effect on performance when you're running flat out?

Discuss.
If you are at speed -- and WOT -- I suspect you are right. The air moving through the tubes would be very close to ambient, with little time for heat transfer. The effects would be more helpful at lower speeds, at less than WOT.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:17 AM
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nice, and it looks badass imo.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:29 AM
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I've used wraps of one kind or another on intake components for decades and found the ones with a foil barrier on one side work much better than plain wrap. The plain wrap was originally used on exhaust headers and works OK but not nearly as well as the foil backed shield.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Benz-O-Rama View Post
Devil's advocate here.....


What about the thought that at W.O.T, the air passing through the intake tubes is moving at such a velocity, that the couple of degrees that you gain at idle, have no effect on performance when you're running flat out?

Discuss.
Well to pull the nerd in me out, if you assume it does work and you get a 13degree change and that a good estimate is every 10degrees F is worth 1% in HP you get about 5hp for $20. Not bad...

Might not have much of an effect at WOT but might be decent while driving around town or when in traffic and you decide to use the beast to get away from traffic.

Anyone run Redline's Water Wetter or a coolant additive to make the intercooler more effective?
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:28 AM
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If the tubes were metal, I could possibly see this being worth it.

Given that the tubes are pretty short, and plastic, a minor temp change is simply not going to have much, if any effect on power production.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:53 AM
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I run water wetter, and didn't notice much of a difference in coolant temps. Maybe one notch lower every once in a while, on a hot day. I don't have a datalogger for the E55, though.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:38 AM
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There are a couple options from DEI...

Cool-Tape (which would be a lot better than the velcro thing they offer, since our tubes aren't perfectly rounded)- http://www.designengineering.com/pro...p&pid=30&tid=1

The aforementioned air intake velcro tube: http://www.designengineering.com/pro...p&pid=33&tid=5

Reflect-a-Cool cut-to-fit heat shields: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DE...2/?image=large

Another kind of cut-to-fit heat barrier tape (looks like the opposite of exhaust header tape): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TAY-2531/?image=large

Last edited by Nait Sirhc; 08-14-2009 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by speedpeddler View Post
I've used wraps of one kind or another on intake components for decades and found the ones with a foil barrier on one side work much better than plain wrap. The plain wrap was originally used on exhaust headers and works OK but not nearly as well as the foil backed shield.
To add to this...the gold tape is the most effective stuff on the market. If you're going to go through the effort do it right the first time even it it costs a bit more.

I was at the Grand-Am races recently and was amazed at some of the components that the teams were wrapping in the the gold tape to keep heat out. I personally have portions of my cold air intake in my 996 wrapped in this stuff as it tends to heat soak durring long sessions at the track.

http://www.designengineering.com/pro...sp?m=sp&pid=75

picture from the races afew weeks back as exmaple. Many of the teams had the entire intake tract including manifold wrapped.
Heat Wrapping Intake Tubes - Does Work!! (Supporting Data and Pictures)-picture864.jpg
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AudiOn19s View Post
To add to this...the gold tape is the most effective stuff on the market. If you're going to go through the effort do it right the first time even it it costs a bit more.

I was at the Grand-Am races recently and was amazed at some of the components that the teams were wrapping in the the gold tape to keep heat out. I personally have portions of my cold air intake in my 996 wrapped in this stuff as it tends to heat soak durring long sessions at the track.

http://www.designengineering.com/pro...sp?m=sp&pid=75

picture from the races afew weeks back as exmaple. Many of the teams had the entire intake tract including manifold wrapped.
on that link, it says the gold reflective material is capable of withstanding 850F. So if this is the best out there, why do other such as these:

http://www.designengineering.com/pro...p&pid=30&tid=1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TH...5/?image=large

...say they can handle up to 1500-2000F? The first link is "1 mil aluminized material bonded to a light weight, woven fiberglass" and the second link is "aluminized Heat Barriers are made up of woven silica with a flexible aluminized finish".

And what makes all of these better to use to wrap than exhaust wrap? Is it that while they reflect heat and prevent the heat from being taken up by the intake, they do not prevent the intake from dissipating the heat like the exhaust wrap might do?
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jturkel View Post
on that link, it says the gold reflective material is capable of withstanding 850F. So if this is the best out there, why do other such as these:

http://www.designengineering.com/pro...p&pid=30&tid=1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TH...5/?image=large

...say they can handle up to 1500-2000F? The first link is "1 mil aluminized material bonded to a light weight, woven fiberglass" and the second link is "aluminized Heat Barriers are made up of woven silica with a flexible aluminized finish".

And what makes all of these better to use to wrap than exhaust wrap? Is it that while they reflect heat and prevent the heat from being taken up by the intake, they do not prevent the intake from dissipating the heat like the exhaust wrap might do?

good questions...the gold stuff says 850 deg and the aluminized woven says 1500 deg and the other link posted 2000 deg!!! I've seen the gold stuff from Grand Am cars quite often, both DP and GT cars use it...

I'm subscribed to this thread I think there is a best solution out there; we just need to find out what it is!
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jturkel View Post
on that link, it says the gold reflective material is capable of withstanding 850F. So if this is the best out there, why do other such as these:

http://www.designengineering.com/pro...p&pid=30&tid=1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TH...5/?image=large

...say they can handle up to 1500-2000F? The first link is "1 mil aluminized material bonded to a light weight, woven fiberglass" and the second link is "aluminized Heat Barriers are made up of woven silica with a flexible aluminized finish".

And what makes all of these better to use to wrap than exhaust wrap? Is it that while they reflect heat and prevent the heat from being taken up by the intake, they do not prevent the intake from dissipating the heat like the exhaust wrap might do?
Heat rating isn't really the concern here. They're basically stating the tape or wrap won't come apart at those temps.

What you're looking for is how effective the material is at REFLECTING heat away from the item you're trying to protect against heat soak. I find it funny they don't publish a number stating exactly how much heat any of the chrome or wraps will keep out...just that they won't fall apart at XXX temp. They Do however publish the gold will reflect 80% of all radiant heat.

Header wrap is actually meant to keep heat IN the header and move the heat release further downstream in the exhaust system. While it does insulate some...it's still going to heat soak itself eventually as it doesn't have the reflective properties like the chrome or gold. That's why the intake sleeves are made of the chrome. It's the best balance of reflective properties without a huge price. The gold isn't cheap but it does the best job of reflecting heat away from the surface that it's on of any of them.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AudiOn19s View Post
Heat rating isn't really the concern here. They're basically stating the tape or wrap won't come apart at those temps.

What you're looking for is how effective the material is at REFLECTING heat away from the item you're trying to protect against heat soak. I find it funny they don't publish a number stating exactly how much heat any of the chrome or wraps will keep out...just that they won't fall apart at XXX temp. They Do however publish the gold will reflect 80% of all radiant heat.

Header wrap is actually meant to keep heat IN the header and move the heat release further downstream in the exhaust system. While it does insulate some...it's still going to heat soak itself eventually as it doesn't have the reflective properties like the chrome or gold. That's why the intake sleeves are made of the chrome. It's the best balance of reflective properties without a huge price. The gold isn't cheap but it does the best job of reflecting heat away from the surface that it's on of any of them.
That's really the idea ... just insulating the tubes from the heat. The cool air running through them will maintain the reduction by acting as a force opposite the insulation barrier.

I'd bet my life the difference for a long duration is less than 2 degrees while looking 10x better.

Now ... having said that ... you wanna do some racing ... wet the wraps. You lose bigtime.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JustPete View Post
That's really the idea ... just insulating the tubes from the heat. The cool air running through them will maintain the reduction by acting as a force opposite the insulation barrier.

I'd bet my life the difference for a long duration is less than 2 degrees while looking 10x better.

Now ... having said that ... you wanna do some racing ... wet the wraps. You lose bigtime.
I won't argue the fact that all materials mentioned in this thread will do the job of lowering intake temps. You're spot on there that even insulating them with the wrap is going to help out with the amount of heat these things generate under the hood.

Andy
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