jangy

agreed with splinter


to OP: not the best topic title IMO

blackbenzz

Link? The Kleemann sc has WAYYY better intercooling and I was told it is more efficient. I'd like to see your findings.

jangy

I'll ask and see what he says. It was a while back on a C55. His reasoning was to get the bigger SC and he said it was the opposite of what you are saying. Which one did Hooley go with?

You almost need to do it on the same or two stock cars to tell the difference. Comparing a C55 with it and your car isn't exactly apples. I thought even you were considering it at one point?

AMGSC

I've always thought the same...that the OEM E55 blower was 2.3 while the Kleemann was a 2.2litre. Vadim measured them both at the shop and they are identical in outer dimensions. HOWEVER, I've talked to Cory MANY times and he insists that the OEM 55k is 1.8L and the Kleemann is 2.0L (version with electronic fuel pump). He mentioned that the OEM can spin faster primarily because of the hollow rotors (less rotational mass) and a 2-1 step up ratio. He told me that I should run no more than 12psi with my blower but with the OEMs you can run more. He also mentioned that the OEM blower makes a standard 14.5psi but after the intercooler it's only about 7.5psi due to it's inefficency compared to the Laminova intercooler that maintains the same boost with no loss. I reminded him that I am asking about the V8 versions and not the V6 versions of both blowers and he said of course.

Yes, now that I know that the OEM 55k blowers are less expensive and still available as replacements, I'm leaning on selling my Kleemann blower and retrofitting an OEM 55k blower. I agree with you all now. So what if the bearings wear out as long as I can find a replacement blower when that happens.

AMGSC

Well...Ahmad's CLK55 with a slower gear ratio than a C55 ran a ridiculous 10.70 ET which is an MB V8 record while Hooley's C55 ran a solid 11.74 ET. Both cars boost levels were set at 7.5psi I believe.

AMGSC

I asked Cory if I can quote him on this in my PM to him and he said OK....

Sure, I don't see a problem with that. To clarify though, KLEEMANN no longer uses AutoRotor superchargers, as they sold the the rotor profile license for their larger superchargers to Kenne Bell and no longer produce them.

-Cory


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMGSC
Once again. Thanks a bunch!!! Can I quote you on this on mbworld?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory @ Kleemann
Hey Robert-

the 113K engine uses an IHI built 1.8L screw-type supercharger which has a 2:1 step-up ratio inside the SC transmission. KLEEMANN used AutoRotor 2.2L screw kompressors.

Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMGSC
Cory,
Can you confirm which blower has a larger displacement and whether the OEM 55K model that is made by IHI the Autorotor design OR the Lysholm design. I believe the older Kleemann twin-screw was made by Autorotor 2.2 (4 male x 6 female lobes) correct? Or was the Kleemann actually the Lysholm 2.3 (3 male x 5 female lobes).

Thanks again for helping out a loyal customer.

Robert aka "AMGSC"

hooleyboy

as far as I know...The 2:1 ratio that is being talked about is the ratio between the crank pulley and snout pulley. The stock crank pulley on a 55k SC is 152mm and the snout pulley is 76, half of 152. SO for every rotation the crank makes the SC makes 2 rotations, =2:1 ratio.

As I posted in another thread, that ratio changes when you add a lager crank pulley to the 55k, that ratio changes.

I kind of have a hard time believing if you ripped the rotors out of the AMG SC you couldn't fit 2L of fluid in there.

According to this AMG SC chart below, the displacement of this blower is 2.3L. After some contact with Whipple they think the AMG blower is a 2.3L.

I dont know what other people are running who have similar setups and boost levels, But 11.74 at 119mph in 2550DA tells me this car has some more in the tank if the weather is right.

Needless to say Blackbenzz has better overlapping cams vs's my NA cams. Along with a beefy trans and high-stall converter.

All these factors, cams, trans, much better weather, could be all it takes

As far as I know, without getting way off the topic. some way the cams and the torque converter have a relationship. Every place I called (not to many) wanted to know my cam specs when I was looking for a HSTC.

jangy

I'm not going to get into this pissing match but too many people here have played with our SC to know.

blackbenzz: I missed a part of your post. You mentioned supperior IC and I give you that. Nobody claims the 55K IC to be very efficient and many of us are working on that. As far as the SC itself, I disagree with the efficiency statement.

To the size debate: It is and always has been a 2.3L. For a member to get information from an SC maker and claim it to be a resolved issue is a bit back to my point of this thread (mostly in TITLE) being "a blanket statement that is in the grey zone."

I'm not digging at Kleeman, but in this thread alone we have the blatant claims (not by Kleeman) that anything above a 168mm is harmful and that the 55K SC is undersized. Now, that doesn't end up looking fishy to members here when we know that Kleeman ONLY sells a 168mm and have their own SC that people of late have been seriously questioning over using one off of a 55k motor?

To the OP: Be less dramatic in your titles. Cory is very knowledgable but anyone's OPINION can be debated.

Add a disclaimer here: I have recently become a Kleeman fan (since i see them in more MB development) so this is not to hate on the company but to STOP the rumors that MB owners are continuing to spread. The days of lore selling stuff was done long ago.

AMGSC

Can you please call Cory since he must be pulling my chain because I've asked him at least a half dozen times? Last time I checked they make stuff for OEM 55K cars so they should know the displacement of the factory blower but it seems everybody else disagrees including Vadim.

And YES Cory said those exact words. As I said call him yourself if you think I'm lying. This ain't rumor. Check the thread that Marcus started that suggests the same thing. Premature SC wear using supersized pullies.

I'm not hating the OEM blower because I just bought one myself brand new. I just need to be absolutely sure I'm choosing the right one to install AND how much boost I can get away with. The other one will sit in my garage as a backup.

btw...Do you think it that Kleemann does not know how to make a pulley larger than 168mm? They CHOOSE NOT to for a reason but I don't think that reason is their lack of capability of simply enlarging the diameter.

AMGSC

I did'nt know that cams, beefier tranny and torque converter can make a full second difference but I'm glad I got all those installed recently. What about your custom long tubes? That should give you an edge correct? btw...I'm buying a set from you once I sell my Kleemanns

jangy

Do you want my opinion, or is this simply your attempt to start a pissing match again? In my opinion, kleeman has chosen not to pursue certain options not because they are not viable but because Kleeman does not see them as financially viable. Kleeman came up with one of the best tunes for the E55k using an early ECU file. Once the secondary injection flash came into play, I felt that Kleeman lost their edge by denying a need to update the tune instead of just reflashing newer cars with the same '03 based tune. Now, they are making a new attempt at these cars because the TQ managment tuned cars have shown better ets and top end.

You are missing much of my point. I am one of the ones that is questioning the efficacy of the 178mm on my setup and am wanting to see what the difference is by going to a smaller one. BUT, I am not doing this because i feel my bearings are strained and it isn't fair for you to start a thread that implies such.


The bearings are NOT getting w0rn out as evidenced by all the miles that we have put on the 178mm pulleys. Even the ones that are wearing out of normal use are being repaired CHEAP, so what is your point?

Mrbig

So it possible that a 168 mm works better because the blower stays cooler and the power is more consistent

cruzinquick

No but Density Altitude will make all the difference. When you start hitting the track and setting a baseline be sure to get DA readings to be able to accurately chart your progress. I suggest a Performaire PA2 from Biondo Racing.

ttus

there generally seems to be some sort of failures on these AMG superchargers regardless if one installs after market pulleys or not. WOW, its amazing to know how many people don't know AMG supercharger's have replaceable oil.

https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...arger-oil.html (and other sites as well)

Mobil came out with a 3rd generation oil for the replacement of the Mobil jet oil II and a 4th generation is in the line up.

on the Mobil jet oil 254 (3rd Gen.) the thermal properties has been increased with less thermal breakdowns for higher rpm bearing temps/high temp gears.

so it is possible to have zero failures on these pulley system(and AMG superchargers) with bearing upgrades and/or proper aviation oil change in these AMG superchargers. The more these AMG superchargers are used for track/drag purposes the sooner or earlier for supercharger oil changes. For those who have never seen a supercharger oil change between 5-10 years; look at the gunk that comes out--that is if your supercharger hasn't already failed! (when the car is tilted or with the supercharger removed the gunk can be seen oozing).

So there is nothing wrong using a 185 pulley kit but, however, with a pulley safety kit to slow and sync the entire pulley system(as a safety net)--and with a upgraded idler 100mm from a 60mm. it seems to work quite well on mine. But i never use my AMG on the track or drag strips. I only use it as a pleasure vehicle and for quick passing on the highways. (my AMG r170.2 was not designed for track purposes).

ttus

morever, also, one can get a metal oil check analysis for metal wear and truly see if there is thermal breakdown due to metallurgical heat or wear or whatnot by aviation laboratories: http://www.skygeek.com/ga-001.html


(heat is the number one enemy in modified vehicles). And to find each and every point of the heat weakness in a modified vehicle is a challenge and when in conjunction with a modified ECU. i am not talking about just IC and the likes. it takes more knowledge than just simply thinking a increased intercooler will suffice in heat soaks.(aerodynamics is key).

Bring in the electrical engineers, mechanical engineers and computer science engineers(these folks can almost about do anything) and see them work in a team.

hint: in a modified intel or AMD computer; the number one goal is overclocking the CPU to the extremes! And this even applies to the graphic cards and hard disks, amd memory chips. You should see some of the massive coolers and coolants(liquid and freon) used when overclocking a x86 or x64 CPU. the bulk of the systems in a pc or server system is the cooling system which is dialed to the precise and accurate single digit temperature when overclocked!

we due know that the 2 most fundamentally important factors in reducing race times is or are: 1)the limited diff and 2)gear ratios. these 2 items alone can create between 1-2 second times in the 0-62 and 1/4 miles times. the Force feeding is the easy part.

take hennessey performance for example; they literally have to create almost 1000hp to knock off 1/2 second. unless the car is super-lite; like the lotus exige in which they modified does bugatti veyron times.

DH1951

The bearing is replaceable for very little money. Check out online videos from DIY mechanics.

w204_racing

DH1951

Good point. My newbie error.
Would I be right in thinking that DIYers are happy with the NACHI bearing?

w204_racing