Smaller S/C pulley and eliminate S/C Clutch?
Thread Starter
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,834
Likes: 65
From: Texas
2003 CL55
Smaller S/C pulley and eliminate S/C Clutch?
Anyone looked into just removing the S/C Clutch system and going direct drive? I know the S/C clutch can slip, chirp , go bad and cost around 1200-ish plus labor?
Since I had custom ASP idler and tensioner pulley`s made, I was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engadged most the time anyway; just the way I like it..
Since I sold my extra S/C clutch and pulley, not sure how all this will fit but should not be to hard..
I see a lot of advantages in doing this..
1) Able to increase or decrease boost with easy S/C change
2) No slip, chirp or delay in wanted boost on demand
3) Not getting raped to replace Clutch fails when it fails.
Disadvantages, would be slight loss of low RPM cruise MPG but I hardly ever see that scenario..
Sure there are a bunch more advantages but that is a few off the top of my head.
Since I had custom ASP idler and tensioner pulley`s made, I was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engadged most the time anyway; just the way I like it..
Since I sold my extra S/C clutch and pulley, not sure how all this will fit but should not be to hard..
I see a lot of advantages in doing this..
1) Able to increase or decrease boost with easy S/C change
2) No slip, chirp or delay in wanted boost on demand
3) Not getting raped to replace Clutch fails when it fails.
Disadvantages, would be slight loss of low RPM cruise MPG but I hardly ever see that scenario..
Sure there are a bunch more advantages but that is a few off the top of my head.
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 35
shrimp boat
About time somebody try this. This should work like stock if you can incorporate some by-pass valves into the system. Let us know how it go. I believe this will be far more superior than the stock set-up. Two big thumps up for you!!
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Southern Cali (Ontario)
I have a smaller S/C clutch pulley on my C32.. it works great. Engages like stock, but the boost comes in sooner. Boost comes in about 500rpms sooner than stock. Can't explain why.. but it really does.
I have seen a smaller S/C clutch pulley for 55 car.. in fact (Code 3) tried to install on my car but could not take out the clutch pulley bolt.. and needed remove the radiator to use impact gun. We didn't have the time and so we left for another time.
Eventually I believe that part was sent to JackPro, since he had Brandon build it for him and he paid for it.
It uses the same size bearing, but reduced slightly. If I remember correctly.. the reduction was not much.. but if tuned correctly..it would yeild more boost.. (as long as the by pass valve is controlled)
If you can work with ASP to make this work.. Or if Jack Pro can send it to you for examination.
It used the same plates as stock.. just the pulley was smaller.
I have seen a smaller S/C clutch pulley for 55 car.. in fact (Code 3) tried to install on my car but could not take out the clutch pulley bolt.. and needed remove the radiator to use impact gun. We didn't have the time and so we left for another time.
Eventually I believe that part was sent to JackPro, since he had Brandon build it for him and he paid for it.
It uses the same size bearing, but reduced slightly. If I remember correctly.. the reduction was not much.. but if tuned correctly..it would yeild more boost.. (as long as the by pass valve is controlled)
If you can work with ASP to make this work.. Or if Jack Pro can send it to you for examination.
It used the same plates as stock.. just the pulley was smaller.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
Anyone looked into just removing the S/C Clutch system and going direct drive? I know the S/C clutch can slip, chirp , go bad and cost around 1200-ish plus labor?
Since I had custom ASP idler and tensioner pulley`s made, I was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engadged most the time anyway; just the way I like it..
Since I sold my extra S/C clutch and pulley, not sure how all this will fit but should not be to hard..
I see a lot of advantages in doing this..
1) Able to increase or decrease boost with easy S/C change
2) No slip, chirp or delay in wanted boost on demand
3) Not getting raped to replace Clutch fails when it fails.
Disadvantages, would be slight loss of low RPM cruise MPG but I hardly ever see that scenario..
Sure there are a bunch more advantages but that is a few off the top of my head.
Since I had custom ASP idler and tensioner pulley`s made, I was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engadged most the time anyway; just the way I like it..
Since I sold my extra S/C clutch and pulley, not sure how all this will fit but should not be to hard..
I see a lot of advantages in doing this..
1) Able to increase or decrease boost with easy S/C change
2) No slip, chirp or delay in wanted boost on demand
3) Not getting raped to replace Clutch fails when it fails.
Disadvantages, would be slight loss of low RPM cruise MPG but I hardly ever see that scenario..
Sure there are a bunch more advantages but that is a few off the top of my head.
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From: Philly
997TT, C192 GT63, W464 G550, MS Plaid
i was always wondering why noone made an "upper pulley". even if the clutch is still there. i personally would not mind going without a clutch, if the ECU doesn't freak out.
Thread Starter
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,834
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From: Texas
2003 CL55
prodigymb i was always wondering why noone made an "upper pulley". even if the clutch is still there. i personally would not mind going without a clutch, if the ECU doesn't freak out.
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 13
From: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I sound like like a broken record but the Benz ECU is just satan.
Vadim tried welding his supercharger clutch years ago but ECU picked up that it was not disengaging and hello limp mode.
Friggin Benz. Great product but like escaping Alcatraz to mod beyond the basics.
Course someone did make it out of The Rock so keep on trying guys!
Oh on smaller SC pulley, gotta be careful on slippage but worth a shot for sure. I say though if you are gonna spin the crap out of the supercharger, just put on a monster crank pulley. Can't believe the sizes Ali from overseas says they are putting on their cars. 205MM
Must look like a dishplate!
Vadim tried welding his supercharger clutch years ago but ECU picked up that it was not disengaging and hello limp mode.
Friggin Benz. Great product but like escaping Alcatraz to mod beyond the basics.
Course someone did make it out of The Rock so keep on trying guys!
Oh on smaller SC pulley, gotta be careful on slippage but worth a shot for sure. I say though if you are gonna spin the crap out of the supercharger, just put on a monster crank pulley. Can't believe the sizes Ali from overseas says they are putting on their cars. 205MM
Must look like a dishplate!
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,642
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From: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado
E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
>>>" was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engaged most the time anyway; just the way I like it."<<<
The system is for drive-ability and economy, have you put some jumper wires to the clutch so that it is always on? To see how it would run? Give that a try before you make the smaller pulley.
I see what you are trying to do, and I understand the clutch is preventing the use of a smaller pulley on the SC. Smaller pulley = more boost thats fine, but a smaller pulley = more slip.
I think the only2 55s that are direct drive w/o bypass is hooleyboy any way he has a N/A 55 with a 55K SC on it, and
Black benz but he has a Kleenman SC I think.
Last edited by Yacht Master; Jan 20, 2010 at 06:34 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 3
From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
The major hurdle to doing this is not the mechanics, it is what Jackpro1 has described, the electronics.
You have a few issues:
-ECU knows when it should not be seeing boost; hence it will not like seeing boost all the time because it knows that should not be.
-ECU connects/disconnects supercharger in more scenarios than just certain rpm/throttle input; hence if it cannot disconnect, it will get upset.
-ECU maps are designed to have NO boost at certain rpm/throttle input levels; therefore adding boost to those portions of the map could = kaboom
-ECUs full interaction with S/C clutch assembly is poorly understood; trying to mess with it will likely turn up additional, even more complicated issues.
I agree with this statement: Our ECUs are the devil, and it does not help that our aftermarket, for the lack of better works, TOTALLY SUCKS.
-m
You have a few issues:
-ECU knows when it should not be seeing boost; hence it will not like seeing boost all the time because it knows that should not be.
-ECU connects/disconnects supercharger in more scenarios than just certain rpm/throttle input; hence if it cannot disconnect, it will get upset.
-ECU maps are designed to have NO boost at certain rpm/throttle input levels; therefore adding boost to those portions of the map could = kaboom
-ECUs full interaction with S/C clutch assembly is poorly understood; trying to mess with it will likely turn up additional, even more complicated issues.
I agree with this statement: Our ECUs are the devil, and it does not help that our aftermarket, for the lack of better works, TOTALLY SUCKS.
-m
Thread Starter
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,834
Likes: 65
From: Texas
2003 CL55
I was under the impression you wanted it under boost all the time.
>>>" was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engaged most the time anyway; just the way I like it."<<<
The system is for drive-ability and economy, have you put some jumper wires to the clutch so that it is always on? To see how it would run? Give that a try before you make the smaller pulley.
I think the only2 55s that are direct drive w/o bypass is hooleyboy any way he has a N/A 55 with a 55K SC on it, and
Black benz but he has a Kleenman SC I think.
>>>" was also looking into just going direct drive.. Hell, My S/C is engaged most the time anyway; just the way I like it."<<<
The system is for drive-ability and economy, have you put some jumper wires to the clutch so that it is always on? To see how it would run? Give that a try before you make the smaller pulley.
I think the only2 55s that are direct drive w/o bypass is hooleyboy any way he has a N/A 55 with a 55K SC on it, and
Black benz but he has a Kleenman SC I think.
I think locking the clutch is not that major of a change , as far as saftey goes.. We are just talking about having very low rpm boost under 2K (like most S/C set ps) .. I drive 70 plus on the hwy and my S/C is engadged at that speed anyway.. Not much fuel economy to save there.. Tuning has evolved and this may be an option now..
I am going with a larger crank pulley in a couple of weeks but interested in the direct drive later down the road.. I do not like clutch slip, clutch engadging or paying 1200 plus to replace a unit that does not do much for my performance goals.. Yes, my warranty may cover it but for how long and then if there is better solution..
Just thinking ahead with this mod..
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,484
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From: Abu Dhabi
C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
hi all,
did someone notice that stock S/C pulley comes in 2 different sizes ?
the dealership replaced my friends S/C pulley under warrenty and the new one is from side to side 90mm while mine which is still the factory one is 93mm. it sounds small different 3 mm, but if u calculate the ratio it will be about 3.3% more.
is it for G55 or SL55 2007+ ?
PS: Jakpro1 >> large pulleis do look like dishplates.
a always tell them bring some food to serve it on these pulleys.
did someone notice that stock S/C pulley comes in 2 different sizes ?
the dealership replaced my friends S/C pulley under warrenty and the new one is from side to side 90mm while mine which is still the factory one is 93mm. it sounds small different 3 mm, but if u calculate the ratio it will be about 3.3% more.
is it for G55 or SL55 2007+ ?
PS: Jakpro1 >> large pulleis do look like dishplates.
a always tell them bring some food to serve it on these pulleys.
Last edited by Ali_E55; Jan 22, 2010 at 07:43 AM.
