Supercharger Info
#51
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E55, Supercharged Z4 (sold)
Havoc,
What did you use as your core for the intercoolers? To replace the old intercooler you bascially just have an open box that splits after it leaves the rear of the engine on it's way to the new intercoolers correct?
I can't tell how big those intercooler cores are compared to stock but I'd bet a dollar to a bag of donuts that they're bigger and would flow more then stock. Could be wrong.
What did you use as your core for the intercoolers? To replace the old intercooler you bascially just have an open box that splits after it leaves the rear of the engine on it's way to the new intercoolers correct?
I can't tell how big those intercooler cores are compared to stock but I'd bet a dollar to a bag of donuts that they're bigger and would flow more then stock. Could be wrong.
#52
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E55, Supercharged Z4 (sold)
As far as increaing output for a stock 55K SC I can relay this info. It comes from Haitham from superchargerperformance.com. Came highly recommended from a guy I sold the supercharged Z4 too. Take it for what it's worth.
I was told that it was dangerous to exceed the maximum RPM's for the supercharger so prolonged high RPMS and a super big pulley was potentially a bad mix. Problems included bearings going bad, rotor harm due to expansion from heat and the tight tolerances they have. Remember, this is before any intercooler action. He stated that rotors have been known to eat at each other and the housing causing boost leaks etc.
From my calculations a 190mm pulley put you at 13,722 rpms at 6500rpm engine speed. The supercharger was rated for 13,500 rpms.
That is according to this compressor map
https://mbworld.org/forums/3293028-post2.html
Now I can't confirm 100% that this is the exact specs for a 55k SC but it is what's been passed around. It was mentioned that superchargers have maximum constant rpm's and a max rpm for short periods of time. Say 13,500 and 14,000 for 10 seconds so it may be safe to exceed this for a short burst. To me this makes intuitive sense.
It was also mentioned to me that replacing the supercharger oil was a good idea especially if you're going to be giving it lots of heat. Like any "lifetime oil" it was though that replacing it around the 50k miles mark was a good idea. I believe it uses Mobil 1 Jet Oil II.
Hope that helps!
I was told that it was dangerous to exceed the maximum RPM's for the supercharger so prolonged high RPMS and a super big pulley was potentially a bad mix. Problems included bearings going bad, rotor harm due to expansion from heat and the tight tolerances they have. Remember, this is before any intercooler action. He stated that rotors have been known to eat at each other and the housing causing boost leaks etc.
From my calculations a 190mm pulley put you at 13,722 rpms at 6500rpm engine speed. The supercharger was rated for 13,500 rpms.
That is according to this compressor map
https://mbworld.org/forums/3293028-post2.html
Now I can't confirm 100% that this is the exact specs for a 55k SC but it is what's been passed around. It was mentioned that superchargers have maximum constant rpm's and a max rpm for short periods of time. Say 13,500 and 14,000 for 10 seconds so it may be safe to exceed this for a short burst. To me this makes intuitive sense.
It was also mentioned to me that replacing the supercharger oil was a good idea especially if you're going to be giving it lots of heat. Like any "lifetime oil" it was though that replacing it around the 50k miles mark was a good idea. I believe it uses Mobil 1 Jet Oil II.
Hope that helps!
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
Did you gut the OEM I/C under the blower?
One thing with I/C... again bigger is better but only insofar as you are able to add timing ... if you are running a smaller I/C and the engine does not pull timing adding a bigger cooler is not going to help much with max power - maybe some thermal efficiency ....But now I am not saying your setup will not yield better results... it should ... but it may not result in more power, but you will be able to use the power non stop I would hope.
Given the volume of those I/C's I expect you will need a significant increase in boost to get back to where you are before all else being equal in terms of volumetric flow etc...
Lets face it the only nett difference between a Stock SLR motor and a highly tuned motor from this board is not the power output (ok mbe there is a 20-30hp gap) but the SLR can deliver the power non stop alll day... clearly the SLR motor has been completely engineered for purpose - ours too but for a different purpose.
One thing with I/C... again bigger is better but only insofar as you are able to add timing ... if you are running a smaller I/C and the engine does not pull timing adding a bigger cooler is not going to help much with max power - maybe some thermal efficiency ....But now I am not saying your setup will not yield better results... it should ... but it may not result in more power, but you will be able to use the power non stop I would hope.
Given the volume of those I/C's I expect you will need a significant increase in boost to get back to where you are before all else being equal in terms of volumetric flow etc...
Lets face it the only nett difference between a Stock SLR motor and a highly tuned motor from this board is not the power output (ok mbe there is a 20-30hp gap) but the SLR can deliver the power non stop alll day... clearly the SLR motor has been completely engineered for purpose - ours too but for a different purpose.
Have you actually see the IC core of the E55? It's patheticly small.
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
As far as increaing output for a stock 55K SC I can relay this info. It comes from Haitham from superchargerperformance.com. Came highly recommended from a guy I sold the supercharged Z4 too. Take it for what it's worth.
I was told that it was dangerous to exceed the maximum RPM's for the supercharger so prolonged high RPMS and a super big pulley was potentially a bad mix. Problems included bearings going bad, rotor harm due to expansion from heat and the tight tolerances they have. Remember, this is before any intercooler action. He stated that rotors have been known to eat at each other and the housing causing boost leaks etc.
From my calculations a 190mm pulley put you at 13,722 rpms at 6500rpm engine speed. The supercharger was rated for 13,500 rpms.
That is according to this compressor map
https://mbworld.org/forums/3293028-post2.html
Now I can't confirm 100% that this is the exact specs for a 55k SC but it is what's been passed around. It was mentioned that superchargers have maximum constant rpm's and a max rpm for short periods of time. Say 13,500 and 14,000 for 10 seconds so it may be safe to exceed this for a short burst. To me this makes intuitive sense.
It was also mentioned to me that replacing the supercharger oil was a good idea especially if you're going to be giving it lots of heat. Like any "lifetime oil" it was though that replacing it around the 50k miles mark was a good idea. I believe it uses Mobil 1 Jet Oil II.
Hope that helps!
I was told that it was dangerous to exceed the maximum RPM's for the supercharger so prolonged high RPMS and a super big pulley was potentially a bad mix. Problems included bearings going bad, rotor harm due to expansion from heat and the tight tolerances they have. Remember, this is before any intercooler action. He stated that rotors have been known to eat at each other and the housing causing boost leaks etc.
From my calculations a 190mm pulley put you at 13,722 rpms at 6500rpm engine speed. The supercharger was rated for 13,500 rpms.
That is according to this compressor map
https://mbworld.org/forums/3293028-post2.html
Now I can't confirm 100% that this is the exact specs for a 55k SC but it is what's been passed around. It was mentioned that superchargers have maximum constant rpm's and a max rpm for short periods of time. Say 13,500 and 14,000 for 10 seconds so it may be safe to exceed this for a short burst. To me this makes intuitive sense.
It was also mentioned to me that replacing the supercharger oil was a good idea especially if you're going to be giving it lots of heat. Like any "lifetime oil" it was though that replacing it around the 50k miles mark was a good idea. I believe it uses Mobil 1 Jet Oil II.
Hope that helps!
#55
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E55, Supercharged Z4 (sold)
I was talking about the clutch, not the internals. The gearing changes it to 23,000rpms JakPro1 provided the data sheet that showed a max rpm of 13,500. Just semantics though, I know. Also, I know they are running huge pullies but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
#56
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Havoc,
What did you use as your core for the intercoolers? To replace the old intercooler you bascially just have an open box that splits after it leaves the rear of the engine on it's way to the new intercoolers correct?
I can't tell how big those intercooler cores are compared to stock but I'd bet a dollar to a bag of donuts that they're bigger and would flow more then stock. Could be wrong.
What did you use as your core for the intercoolers? To replace the old intercooler you bascially just have an open box that splits after it leaves the rear of the engine on it's way to the new intercoolers correct?
I can't tell how big those intercooler cores are compared to stock but I'd bet a dollar to a bag of donuts that they're bigger and would flow more then stock. Could be wrong.
![Supercharger Info-securedownload-1.png](https://mbworld.org/forums/attachments/w211-amg/383106d1542322078t-supercharger-info-securedownload-1.png)
These coolers were built with cooling and flow in mind. Each top mount cooler has the same size core as our stock intercooler, but has double the surface area and should flow more than double the amount of air. And that's just one!
They have yet to be tested and are unfinished. I plan on attaching some AMG name plates and going with a brushed finish with clear coat.
078.jpg?t=1275008574
#57
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, I basically have an open box that replaced my stock intercooler; however it has dual 3" piping to stop the turbulence and give the boost better direction which you can see in the pic below. It's sitting on top of the S/C.
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/securedownload-1.png)
These coolers were built with cooling and flow in mind. Each top mount cooler has the same size core as our stock intercooler, but has double the surface area and should flow more than double the amount of air. And that's just one!
They have yet to be tested and are unfinished. I plan on attaching some AMG name plates and going with a brushed finish with clear coat.
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/078.jpg?t=1275008574)
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/securedownload-1.png)
These coolers were built with cooling and flow in mind. Each top mount cooler has the same size core as our stock intercooler, but has double the surface area and should flow more than double the amount of air. And that's just one!
They have yet to be tested and are unfinished. I plan on attaching some AMG name plates and going with a brushed finish with clear coat.
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/078.jpg?t=1275008574)
#58
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
Sorry Blackbenzz for all the high jacking.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Guys please PM me if you have questions.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#59
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes the OEM core is a real joke but I think I would have used the OEM I/C housing instead of the 2 pipes to feep the new I/C's ...
#60
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
#62
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Yes, I basically have an open box that replaced my stock intercooler; however it has dual 3" piping to stop the turbulence and give the boost better direction which you can see in the pic below. It's sitting on top of the S/C.
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/securedownload-1.png)
These coolers were built with cooling and flow in mind. Each top mount cooler has the same size core as our stock intercooler, but has double the surface area and should flow more than double the amount of air. And that's just one!
They have yet to be tested and are unfinished. I plan on attaching some AMG name plates and going with a brushed finish with clear coat.
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/078.jpg?t=1275008574)
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/securedownload-1.png)
These coolers were built with cooling and flow in mind. Each top mount cooler has the same size core as our stock intercooler, but has double the surface area and should flow more than double the amount of air. And that's just one!
They have yet to be tested and are unfinished. I plan on attaching some AMG name plates and going with a brushed finish with clear coat.
![](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/MBHavoc/078.jpg?t=1275008574)
havoc, what I dont get about the design on these top mounts is.. Why vadim didnt taper the end caps and slope the the metal down to direct the flow of air into the intake ports. rather than force it to bounce off a 90 degree angle.
When ever you are trying to guide any un-manned thing in a a direction. you want to deliberately guide it in the right direction.... I know that sounds like common sense, but its true. In this case its air flow. Your airflow needs to be deliberately manipulated to direct the flow of air into the intake ports.
Think of it as an A/C vent in your SL. By making an adjustment to the vents you can tell the air what way to flow... whether its directed right at your face or on your arm.
Well the same is true for your top mounts. If you pointed the direction of air down to the intake ports I would bet $100 you would see better results. Rather than having the air deflect off a a 90 degree wall.
I know your project is not done, So maybe you have time to take this small issue and have it addressed.
On a side note, if you look at the RENNtech top mounts. They slope the air flow down into to the intake ports. Also so does your stock surge tank... As it has something like a velocity stacks cast into it to help the air flow better.
Last edited by MBH motorsports; 05-28-2010 at 05:54 PM.
#63
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![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
Thanks for the input!
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#65
Super Member
Not sure the relevance to this topic but I have a 195mm pulley and on the dyno I saw peak IAT temps of 85f. This is with a Large HE, rear water tank and Water/meth (50%) and #10 nozzel. I the begining of the pull the temps would go below ambient by 2-5 degress and finnish aroud 5 over. So i feel it is possible to control IAT with a larger pulley. I'm playing with the idea of spraying a very small amouth through the Sc to help wih rotor temps and seal...
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
Not sure the relevance to this topic but I have a 195mm pulley and on the dyno I saw peak IAT temps of 85f. This is with a Large HE, rear water tank and Water/meth (50%) and #10 nozzel. I the begining of the pull the temps would go below ambient by 2-5 degress and finnish aroud 5 over. So i feel it is possible to control IAT with a larger pulley. I'm playing with the idea of spraying a very small amouth through the Sc to help wih rotor temps and seal...
#68
Super Member
Supposedly Methonal is non crossive to SC rotor coatings(teflon) But you never know till you try?, Its not really pratical but i'd rather just be using water through the SC but I cant imagine pluming another tank to the that little of a job. As far as gains, It does cool but I have't seen an "large" power gains in dyno numbers or track times. Time will tell if the merits are there.
#69
MBWorld Fanatic!
Supposedly Methonal is non crossive to SC rotor coatings(teflon) But you never know till you try?, Its not really pratical but i'd rather just be using water through the SC but I cant imagine pluming another tank to the that little of a job. As far as gains, It does cool but I have't seen an "large" power gains in dyno numbers or track times. Time will tell if the merits are there.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Last edited by chiromikey; 06-01-2010 at 11:47 PM.
#70
Former Vendor of MBWorld
i've always been interested in this, not as much from a power adder standpoint but as a chemical intercooler since our oem set-up is so inadequate and we don't have room for anything else. my thought has been that previous attempts had the nozzle located in the wrong place (before the i/c) as this will tend to heat the i/c (if you're running ice in the reservoir) or cool the core rather than the intake air if you're not. i like the idea of plumbing it after the i/c which, iirc, is what you've done. either way, i'll be looking forward to more results! ![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#72
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Yeah I got a chance to study the stock intercooler. We all know its not in the ideal location, its kinda small, there is not a lot of room... It might take some trial and error, but it will get done. I'll hit you up when its done, maybe you can come out and check it out when I get it finished. BTW, lets get a beer soon....
Last edited by MBH motorsports; 06-02-2010 at 11:09 AM.
#73
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C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
I did some searching on the web and also read that our S/C is a highly efficient Lysholm-type supercharger manufactured by IHI. I also found that 1.8L in mention a few times on this forum but I can't confirm that anywhere else on the web. ![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Found these pics which might be of help.
![](http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb196/splintersAMG/M113supercharger.jpg)
![](https://mbworld.org/forums/attachments/w211-amg/146722d1230770717-full-amg-5-4l-specs-m113k-intake-manifolds.jpg)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Found these pics which might be of help.
![](http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb196/splintersAMG/M113supercharger.jpg)
![](https://mbworld.org/forums/attachments/w211-amg/146722d1230770717-full-amg-5-4l-specs-m113k-intake-manifolds.jpg)
from the Mercedes Official web-site/AMG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With the V8-KOMPRESSOR engine Mercedes-AMG has set a new standard. Its performance capability is not its only impressive feature. It also exhibits excellent power delivery which is designed for the highest dynamism without suppressing the effortless superiority of its generous 8 cylinders. Technical innovations are included: for example the mechanical turbocharger which is located between the two cylinder banks. Two aluminium shafts – one of which is coated with teflon – push up to 1850 kg of air per hour into the combustion chambers at a maximum engine speed of 23000 rpm. In the meantime the belt-driven supercharger is not running constantly but is activated by the engine speed and state of charge through an electromagnetic clutch. All this occurs in fractions of a second such that movements of the gas pedal are implemented almost instantaneously. The compact charging module contains an integrated charge air cooler which effectively cools down the air before it enters the combustion chambers. The low-temperature cooling unit, a powerful suction-type fan in the engine radiator and a separate oil cooler ensure that the supercharged engine functions within the optimum temperature range under all operational conditions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Last line is a lie lool, about the good cooling.
so it is a 1.85L S/C, but they are saying the S/C internal speed is 23k rpm when engine speed is 6500 rpm
check it
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/#/5-5l-v8-kompressor
Last edited by Ali_E55; 08-07-2010 at 01:38 AM.
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
they are putting again the IC in the same location ![Confused](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
![](http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9706/m157ic.jpg)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
... but this time it is bigger (maybe 3 times ) and its external case seems made of some kind of special heat-protecting material
with the cooled flow going through this .. snail![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![](http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6011/m157icflow.jpg)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
![Confused](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
![](http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9706/m157ic.jpg)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
... but this time it is bigger (maybe 3 times ) and its external case seems made of some kind of special heat-protecting material
with the cooled flow going through this .. snail
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![](http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6011/m157icflow.jpg)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us