Esh

According to GM, the only thing people want out of a performance car is to mash on the gas and brake pedals.

People put up with it because they don't know any better. Perhaps we have all been spoiled by MB. I still see 10 year old MB's that are tight and rattle free, soft leather, and running smooth.

Sad to see the brand new American cars rattling...

Just mash the pedal and go I guess...

way2evil

They wanted 59k. Galves came back with 40k and KBB came back with abit higher that that. If a dealer would give me 40k for it why should I pay them 59k for it? I hope its sitting on the lot right now and I can go bargain them for it.

What happens to lease turnins?

Roupin

Not sure what the standard is but I know our car went to a local dealer auction.

220S

There's a member here (shchow) who was shopping the W212 E63 a while back. But it looks like he picked up a 2010 CTS-V instead. Be interesting to hear his take on it. He also has a 2008 M5.

vegas55amg

Man I feel your pain.

My first really nice car I bought brand new was a 2001 Corvette Z06.

scary fast, but still a GM POS. the cheap plasticky interior wore on me badly, the creaks and groans, the small electrical gremlins, the ****ty A/C, and the damn thing starting leaking within 6 months. a $50k car leaking with only 5k miles on it.

My wife drives an Infiniti QX56. We looked at the Cadillac Escalade. same GM garbage. before my test drive I noticed a large gap around the plastic surround for one of the door switches, I put my finger under it and actually flipped out the entire plastic piece! the salesman in the passenger seat mumbled something about it must be a one in a million factory defect, I reach across him, put my fingernail under the same plastic piece on his door and flip it out on the floor. That was the last time I wasted any time visiting ANY GM dealer.

VCA_AMG

Some people get this, some people don't.

It's as though the GM fans literally cannot see/recognize/admit the quality deficit mentioned in this thread. The quality difference is epic and unavoidable. I'm not surprised the modules flipped out of the surrounds...typical GM unfortunately.

ItalianStallion

Being the MBW loyalist I am...I'll break the veil of secrecy...LOL

The CTS-V was a great performing car. It is basically an American-built E55 AMG. That means that it has a more muscular motor, responds better than, and even outhandles the big Benz. It also represents horrible quality. I had basically the same problems listed, but the supercharger was so much fun that I forgot about all of that.

The Caddy forums aren't that bad...but a lot of guys find excuses "well for a 65k car, you expect that compared to a 100k M5." Which is sort of true, but still, they could have done a much better job and attempted to make it squeek free.

The M5's interior tolerances and the Caddy's were a world apart. Yet my M5's SMG tranny was a nightmare and needed to be replaced twice.

The SL55 AMG was also a joke as the convertible top was falling apart, the power steering broke, and the motor would shut down and freeze up after driving through the rain.

The Caddy's actual motor and performance was flawless. I did have the diff whine though.

TopEndS62

Why am i not surprised...... Caddy owners will defend the 56k price-tags...... "Not all that glitters is gold"..... Translation cts-v is just a shinny copper....

06E55

I concur that GM is garbage. Every GM I have ever owned, no matter the price still has a shabby build quality and ill-fitting/looking interior. I even looked at a few Z06s and passed.... To me, it isn't about the price but the overall package...

vegas55amg

exactly.

I'd MUCH rather get a 2 year old MB or BMW than a brand new Cadillac or Chevy Corvette.

a new car is only "brand new" for a few months, but the cheap placticky interior is forever. everything fits like a cheap suit......

600hpvette

When I was ironing out my deal with MB for my E63 I test drove a CTS-V. I drove an E63 extensively and an M5 before testing the CTSV. I was shocked on how bad the interior was, I did like the Recaro seats or whatever the race seats were called. Then the salesman says I cannot go over 3k RPM in the test drive, MB salesman didn't give a crap, he let me punch it. I have to say the E63 was the complete package and still makes me smile EVERY SINGLE DAY I go to work....its almost a perfect sedan..

I hope to go the rest of my life and not experience GM service ever again....talk about horrible! I voided my warranty on purpose when I had a vette!

Greg

220S

Greg, curious as to how many miles you've put on your E63 now. I remember when you bought it (that great deal from FJM)

600hpvette

about 5400 miles so far.

TMC M5

I have had a CTS-V for about a month and half now and put about 2,600 miles on it. I have had the occasional clicking wheel, the sunroof creaks (it only seems to happen when the shade is closed) and a rear differential whine (seems to only happen on left turns). Apparently the differential whine can be cured with an additive to the diff. fluid. With all those annoyances listed, I still love the CTS-V.

I came out of a 2005 CL65, so I am kind of laughing at the suggestion that MB experience is any better than the Cadillac. I only had two ABC suspension and two separate lower control arm failures, and numerous annoying ABC/ABS/SRS/CEL lights going off on the dash and then magically disappearing. After the car hit 40K miles the creaks started coming. Maybe the build quality has improved with the E63 models.

I have owned an AMG, M, RS, SRT, SVT and I can honestly say the best service and least problems were with the Jeep SRT8 I owned.

The worst dealer experiences are with the Audi RS6 and CL65 AMG. The Audi was taken for a 40+ mile "test drive" to make sure it's CEL problem was "fixed" .

About three months ago, the CL65's MB wheel lock key disintegrated while I was trying to loosen one of the wheel locks to take off a wheel that was losing air. I took it into Euro Motorcars in Bethesda (which I usually avoided by going 60 miles up to another MB dealer). They found $1,200 of warranty work (lower control arm and trans gasket plug) to do while they took off the four wheel locks with a master key. They charged me 1 hour labor to take off 4 bolts...they didn't even take off the wheel and put the FULL SIZED SPARE like I had asked them (because "it was a small leak, so we feel the car would be unsafe to use the spare"). After getting the car home and coming out a few hours later to see the tire had lost 20psi of air...I flipped my lid, called the dealer and demanded a full refund of $135 for their "hour" of labor (which the service manager accommodated).

Anyway...sorry for the rant...I haven't had to go to the Cadillac dealer yet. Hopefully, I have better luck with them.

Tom

TopEndS62

we all the know the issues about the cl-class..but that is not the case here... OP is comparing his newly acquired CTS-V to his w211 e63.

TMC M5

The follow-up posts in this thread seem to show a bit of a double standard with the GM bashing. I was merely pointing out that $180K+ car from MB/AMG had it's share of annoying problems as well. I found them annoying (as I do the CTS-V's), but I wouldn't trash all MB's/AMG's. In fact, I still think the CL65 is a great car as its strengths/virtues far out weigh it's faults. This is the same way I feel about the CTS-V.

Tom

Blacksport350

I bought the original CTS-V for my wife to drive and it lasted 6 months before we couldn't stand it anymore. I put all the right mods on it and got all the updates and while it was fun to stomp on and had an eargasmic roar from the Corsa exhaust, it was the biggest POS that has ever graced our garage. We aren't talking minor things here, we are talking wheel hop so bad that if you lost traction from a dig you would seriously risk breaking the differential (not a small issue with these cars) or an axle, electronics that never worked, radiator issues, and a reverse lockout that disengaged at 99MPH which is a BIG problem when 4th goes to 120MPH so it was really easy to hit reverse shifting to 5th at 120MPH!

While finish quality good be excused for the low price of $57K, the major issues above couldn't.

We briefly entertained giving the new one a shot and then came to our senses. Good thing as she just took one out for a track day and was happy to report that while it was a great car, it had many of the inexcusable issues of the first gen car.

I don't expect much from the $60K~ category anymore but I do expect a car that works as intended so I feel your pain!

mikeevo

I dont really want to come off as GM bashing , Just for the money they are asking for. You only get hardcore performance none of the fit and finish your are REALLY paying for. I see some of you are listing the CTS-V at $65,000 , not the case. I went looking and the cheapest I could find on a lot, was closer to $78,000 with a few options. maybe I can order a bare bones but I dont see that kinda of money in this car. if you really could get one at low$ 60,000 out the door then I can see arguing for this a great bang for the buck. but I cannot see that happening. So I wish GM well. they have alot our money and I want them to pay it all back as I am a penny pincher, I cannot see myself buying one of these unless the quality steps up... I agree with others no car is perfect and sometimes the dealer service and followup can make minor problems a minor issues , I havent had that kind of luck with most of the American brands. MB and BMW hands down better service.

hgerhardt

I wouldn't be so quick to lambast the CTS-V. I drove 3 of them before buying my '09 E63, and I only bought it because I got a $30K discount.

The CTS is in its 3rd model year. The W211 in its 3rd model year wasn't the greatest either... SBC, airmatic, electronics... there's a thread going on right now on the problems the early W211's have.

My '09 E63 has a creaky pano roof, and I see from this forum that that's normal. The interior trim has some huge gaps, the cloth on the bottoms of the doors you have to be extremely careful with, lest you scuff the light gray with your size 13's. The adaptive trans sucks after it's adapted itself to lazy city driving... and then you punch it lightly and instead of downshifting, it upshifts, waits, and then downshifts... When you're on it for a while, it's great. But not during lazy driving. The 6L80 in the -V is better. The steering in the -V is better than my E63, much more communicative. And the Recaros are easily as good as the AMG seats. The standard CTS seats absolutely suck, though.

Repair-wise, my '09 has needed a new folding seatback latch that the dealer took two tries to fix, and left really ugly black grease stains on the gray leather and door windlace molding. The idiots even managed to crack the package shelf. They're still waiting on that part. Can't even begin to tell you how PO'd I was/am from that ordeal. The wheel alignment was off from day 1. The front grille had a flaw in the chrome, which the dealer replaced and then forgot to torque the screws, so one of them fell out a week later. The Comand screen was scratched on the showroom floor and was replaced.

FWIW, my dad bought an '09 CTS (not the V) a year ago and it's been flawless. Is it overall as nice as my '09 E63? No. And that's why I bought the E. But flawless it ain't. And the dealer service is pathetic...

Heinrich Gerhardt

VCA_AMG

The only thing worse than GM service is GM sales. They think the CTS-V is a Bentley, and treat their customers like dirt. I've owned enough GM vehicles to know the service sucks. Only recently have I discovered how bad GM sales is, and it's pooooor.

06E55

Let's not confuse problems with service technicians with vehicle problems. They are totally separate issues and can happen no matter what vehicle brand you own.

I have an 06 E55 and have NONE of these "huge gaps" in the interior that you refer to... I have ridden in several other E55s/E63s and haven't seen this in these either, nor most other MBs I have ridden in/driven. The adaptive driving thing you refer to can be easily fixed (search for "sneaky ECU reset really works" [or something along those lines]), and as people suggest, it really does work! I do this once a week and my vehicle turns me on every time I drive it and punch it! I have the pano roof creeks in my 06, but almost EVERY vehicle I have ever driven that has a normal-sized sunroof (let alone the size of the sunroof on this vehicle) has these creeks.

Personally, I did NOT like the feel of the steering in the CTS-V... The Vette is much better than the E, but it is a sports car... The E isn't! As far as the Recaro's... They are OK. I love my dynamic seats. My driver's side seat is always turned on and I have dialed the seat in to fit me like a glove. My wife has an 09 C300 and although I will say her seats are softer, I would much rather sit in mine (plus I can get a nice massage).

Also, service can be what you make of it. Personally, I do all of the normal service required for my E55 (oil change, transmission flush, serpentine/supercharge belt changes, brakes, differential flush, etc.) myself rather than letting my dealership touch my car... I know it is done right and I get the satisfaction of working on my car myself (I have always enjoyed working on cars ever since I helped change the oil on my dad's F150 when I was a little tike...)...

As I have said before, there are many cars that can outperform the E55 now... And I have driven most of them. I bought my E55 as a daily driver, and that is exactly what it is. In the year and a half that I have owned it, I have put over 25,000 miles on it. The only flaw it has had thus far is an airmatic suspension failure, which was fixed under the NEW car warranty. The CPO warranty kicked in recently... I keep my car looking like new inside and out (including my engine compartment and underneath of my vehicle). I lubricate everything and inspect everything on a regular basis. I usually things before they become problems... For me, I just couldn't find anything to compete with the E55 as a daily driver when I bought it...

TopEndS62

So you didnt have reverse lockout?
Front wheels clicking when turning?
Rear end popping?
Dash creaking?
Cheap plastic dash that scratches when you look at it?
Interior trim falling apart?
Rain sensing wipers not working?

Instead u had a scratched command that was replaced

vegas55amg

+1 on that.

when I was at the dealership to buy my aforementioned 2001 Z06 Corvette, the salesman who initially descended on me in the parking lot like a hungry shark tried to tell me that "the automatic transmission is MUCH faster than a 6-speed". I mentioned the Z06 ONLY came with a 6-speed, and was much faster than an automatic trans vette, and he continued to argue with me, telling me he "knew much more about these types of cars, because he used to work at a porsche/jaguar dealer".

obnoxious man. I requested another salesperson, and then before I finalized the deal, I had the general manager assure me that the initial salesman would get NO part of the commission.

there's nothing more annoying than somebody who works either at an upper end store (think Saks 5th avenue) or luxury car dealer, who acts like they are "above" the customer because they work there. it's not like they can afford to shop there........

TMC M5

99% of ALL dealers just spew nonsense. A few months back I walked across the street from my work with a co-worker who wanted to see a Nismo Nissan 370Z that was on the dealership floor. The salesman walks overs and starts saying how fast the 370Z is. He starts saying how it will blow away a new Corvette. I started to smile and shake my head. My co-worker asks me in front of the dealer "is that true?". I said "absolutely not...not in straight line or around a road course". The dealer was like "are you sure???". I said, "positive...the Corvette weighs a little less and has about 80hp more". He had this confused look on his face afterwards. Salespeople will say whatever they think you want to hear..to buy that particular car that is sitting on the lot...

I have had an MB dealer (Euro Motorcars again) ask me straight out "can you really afford this?". I was looking at a used ML63 last year and I told him they were asking too much (which they were compared to other non-CA MB dealers).

Tom

NCE500

In re-reading this thread, TMC's comments sound just like mine at a couple of months into the 09 CTS-V. While I've owned my share of high end "project cars" and recognize that one needs patience to fully sort out problems with a car, I was done with the CTS-V after 11 months as per my comments above. That was a record for me.

I'm not keen to bash competitor's cars, only to state my real world experiences, but I'd be interested to hear TMC's input at the 12 month mark on his CTS-V.