blackbenzz

So is there anyone running E85 yet?

amdeutsch

If you do expect some issues with tank, fuel lines and pump, injectors, etc. You may not care but the next owner will have to fix it.

blackbenzz

Are you saying this from experience? I've spoken to a few reputable tuners and they said it should be fine. You just need your car to be able to supply around an extra 30% of fuel

vegas55amg

Why would anybody even consider running E85, or even regular 87 octane gas is beyond me......

how much might you actually save, a couple of hundred bucks a year? is it really worth it? if I was that worried about saving money I'd be driving a frickin' Camry....

(run the numbers this way, lets say you drive your car 12,000 miles per year, and lets assume you are averaging 15 MPG - not unreasonable if you have a lead foot) So you would be using 800 gallons of fuel per year (12k/15).

now if regular gas is on average .20 (cents) cheaper than premium, you would be saving $160 per year (800 x .2).

No thanks - I'll continue to put premium in my high performance AMG's!

blackbenzz

Wow, are you being serious??? It's not about saving money on gas for me, it is about getting a colder burning, higher octane fuel. You can make more power on E85 than pump gas and it runs cooler than race gas! You can run more boost and more timing with E85 and that means more power! Guess I'm just gonna have to show you all how.

motorkas

Unfortunately - I have no knowledge or advice to offer but I can't wait to see what you're going to learn and give back to the community -

amdeutsch

Have you ever heard the term corrosive? Maybe you ought to STFF E85 and materials involved for being able to use it.

And yes, I did in a E85 capable car. STFF MBW.

citylightva

I guess not everyone knows about E85...Bentley said they could've run the SS on super beast mode on E85, but cut it back to save mpg. I'm still surprised more people don't race on this...Good luck man, that's some good thinking though aren't our computers not very adaptable..? I would think without the proper engine management, you'd basically have to run nothing but E85 since the map wouldn't adjust for the lower octane if you mixed..???

amdeutsch

E85 actually has higher octane. Maybe you ought to STFWeb also.

blackbenzz

You might be thinking about methanol. Why dont you do some more research on the topic. Many cars have switched to E85 and are making alot more power. The gasoline you buy at the pumps already has 10% ethanol in it. Car manufacturers have been making the fueling systems suitable for E85 for over a decade now. I will be doing my research before proceeding but thanks for your not so helpful response. Maybe you should STFF and report back with some useful info. I have several friends running E85 in their cars without a problem. Being a moderator you should watch what you say and set an example.

Citylightva- You are correct about the ECU not being able to adapt to different fuels such as 93 octane vs E85 but I bought a flasher thing that will allow me to switch tunes when I am not nearby an E85 station.

BenzoBoi

Worth the wait

Ahmad this is funny as I was thinking about this today and actually logged on to do some research on the idea and see if there was a history.

E85 is wave of the future, as GDI was to port FI five years ago.

AmDouche....you need to back off a bit...were just curious. Ever heard the term "constructive criticism"???

400RWHP

This is a very true statement. I have an old school Eagle Talon TSi and it is heavily modded. I was running 24 PSI boost and around 12 degrees timing on premium gas before detonation became an issue. When I went to a 60%/40% E85/Premium mix, I was able to run 30 PSI and 19 degrees of timing without detonation. That is significant. The car made almost 80 more WHP just by switching fuels. Yes I went through a ton more fuel as someone stated, but it is about performance not MPG.

That all being said, there is a chance it can corrode aluminum such as some fuel rails or lines and can also affect rubber seals on injectors. However, if you wanted to run a small 10-20% mixture I HIGHLY doubt that would be an issue. Now if you wanted to run higher mixes, then simply change the entire fuel line system to Aeroquip or whoever's braided stainless steel lines which are made for this and many other types of racing fuels. Also might want to change your injector o-rings to viton rubber. The whole system changeover would be inexpensive, perhaps $1000 start to finish. The problem it would seem here would be getting a tune to run a large mix like 60%/40%. You would definately want to adjust timing and boost to get the most out of it. Just putting the E85 in for the sake of putting it in will actually slow you down some. You have to be able to turn up the wick for this to be compelling.

If anyone is really interested in this, I have an entire spreadsheet that shows what E85 will do when mixed with any type of regular gasoline, including effective octane ratings, rate of consumption and required fuel system and injector capacity. I have extensively worked with E85 and it is nothing short of amazing, but it is tricky and you have to be careful, because when it starts to detonate it gives very little warning before you burn a hole in a piston or worse.

Also, to anyone thinking of using E85, be cautious if you live in an aerea with colder winters, as they change the E85 mix quite a bit based on regional temperatures, so you may get a weaker mix one day, and have your car all jacked up for the 'good stuff' and boomie blamo.



Regards

citylightva

Or read it the way I wrote it, meaning the lower octane of the 93 pump gas...Thanks...

vegas55amg

I stand corrected. I see E85 at the pumps, if memory serves it is cheaper than regular, and the cars I always seem to see that are rated to use it are the domestic SUV's and trucks, so I always assumed it was an "economy blend" and I assumed the octane was 85 (I think lower octane gas like 85 is available in the high rocky mountain states). Apparently it is even higher octane than premium!

However, I didn't buy an AMG Benz that is already highly tuned from the factory to risk damaging it with something that it was not designed to run.

I just got rid of my modified Toyota MR2 Turbo - it was a cheap car that was easily modded, and it was easily faster than many 100k plus Porsche's - plus worst case scenario, a replacement motor could be had for under 3k if needed! Not the same thing as replacing a 6.3 liter AMG motor!

930chas

I think now that you have the flash unit this is very doable. Have Jeremy give you a custom e85 tune, and see what happens. Time for you to road trip up to NY! More boost, more timing and more powaaa!! Hell yes!!

400rwhp, I would definitely be interested in seeing that spreadsheet. That is valuable information.

Brian....amdouche!!

JAYCL600

Maybe consult with Chris Green, hes done a few conversions on Porsches, and has the fastest K24/18G 996tt running straight E85, hes done some amazing things with E85. chris@uspmotorsports.com

DAGREEKNYC

problem with ethanol is once the slightest bit of moisture is introduced into the fuel system or tank it causes phase seperation of gas and ethanol . Ethenol cleans the metal lines and tanks and creates alot of sediment , Once this is picked up in a glob in the tank lets say it becomes a nightmare .

If E85 has more than the standard 10% i wouldnt put it in my car .

amdeutsch

I did. And if you STFF'd the W203 forum you'll see experience with E85. And 10% is a h3ll of a lot different than 85%. You will also find that MB only had certain cars capable of running E85. But then again, from your post, you already know this. So, lets see; if your friends do it it must be OK.

I ran my old C both ways. STFF W203 forum

blackbenzz

I already saw that thread. Whoopdy do you ran E85 in a flex fuel Mercedes. I'm talking about doing things outside the envelope. You ran E85 to save money not make more power. Really? 10% is different than 85%??? Thank God we have a math wizard on the forum to help us out with such difficult math! I guess since nobody else had gone tens on pump gas it means it can't be done since MB didn't make the cars to run that way right? Stick to your slow car and let me have some fun. I do my research before I do stuff (One of the reasons I started this thread which I'm regretting now). I was the first to do several things with my car that other people said can't be done. I have been reading up alot on E85 and it seems cars made after 1995 don't have the issues that most of you are talking about. Worst case scenario you spend under a grand and switch everything over to E85 friendly materials, which at this point I'm not convinced is necessary.

E85 does attract moisture but seperation doesn't occur until 20% of the mix is water. I don't plan on pouring water in my gas tank. E85 does clean out the tank and lines and thats why you change the fuel filter ~500miles after you switch over to E85. Thanks to those that actually gave some input on the subject

JAYCL600

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...orn-horse.html

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...sion-dyno.html

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/n...900hp-e85.html

ABALONE

Hehe, just show them instead BB You and I know E85 is the sh*t

I'm going for E85 this winter, and my tuner says it's nemas problemas, and he is the best out there in my country

I just need bigger injectors and maybe a better/modded fuel rail to support the added fuel. I think it will work really well on our S/C cars.

// Magnus

skratch77

e85 is a great option to make power,but its just not a easy way for us to use it.If you have the hardware to tweak your car then yes.

my friends run it on the s4s and before a race they do like 40mins of tweaking the tune on the street with there laptops ect.

For us I say get a 104 map done and maybe a 116 map

in the end you will find your self wanting to tweak the file and going back and forth with the tuner will become an issue.Like if its 50d out and the baro is in the 30s you have another 20-30whp sitting there that you cant use because your limited to the tune thats on the car.

Nait Sirhc

I run 100% e85 in my DSM and it's essentially the greatest thing since sliced bread. That said, I would NOT screw with it in the E55 unless I had a full set of datalogging tools and access to Lambda readings on WB02s.

You can lean out on E85 to stupidly huge ratios before you see knock, but once you do, you're in big trouble. I've run as lean as 14.1 @ WOT (spiked to 110% IDC, 51.3 lb/min airflow) without seeing any knock.

The problem I think you'd run into on the E55 is the volume. It requires 30% more fuel. Unlike a DSM, you can't just slap new injectors into the E55 and call it a day. Can our injector duty cycles even support blasting 30% more fuel @ WOT? Not to mention the pump...

Seconding all the comments about it corroding common fuel system materials. I'm not sure what the E55's components are made with, though. The newer C300s apparently run off E85 just fine, though... the loaner I have right now states it accepts either E85 or 91.

edit: All that being said, however, go for it! I would love to see someone pioneer this on the 55K. If all of the problematic variables were removed (corrosion, fuel delivery volume, etc) then there is no reason this would not be awesome. I'm not sure, however, that the benefits would outweigh the cost.

skratch77

nait you bring up a good point,most guys running 180-185 pulleys with all the bolt ons will run into problems getting enough fuel with the stock e55 injectors.

I dont think they can support 550-600whp on e85