Forged Pistons Were to get them
#26
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kjlindgr - Are you worried about the Swain coating compatibility with the Alusil bores? What was CP's feedback?
What is the process to coat the bores with Nickasil or Alusil and the cost involved? I am sure this is very specialized with only a few places in the U.S that can do this.
Interesting thread.
Yasin
What is the process to coat the bores with Nickasil or Alusil and the cost involved? I am sure this is very specialized with only a few places in the U.S that can do this.
Interesting thread.
Yasin
#27
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kjlindgr - Are you worried about the Swain coating compatibility with the Alusil bores? What was CP's feedback?
What is the process to coat the bores with Nickasil or Alusil and the cost involved? I am sure this is very specialized with only a few places in the U.S that can do this.
Interesting thread.
Yasin
What is the process to coat the bores with Nickasil or Alusil and the cost involved? I am sure this is very specialized with only a few places in the U.S that can do this.
Interesting thread.
Yasin
It is not the piston you have to worry about running in either Nikisil or Alumisil,, it is the type of rings.. The piston skirt should be coated either way..
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
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#28
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
If you are deadset on modifying the engine, go with Nickasil and a custom set of forged pistons. There are a few companies that have great sucess modifying motorcycle and Porsche engines with Nickasil. Many engines come with Nickasil from the factory. The only downside is high sulfer gas. But, my best recollection, I think all the high sulfer fuel has been removed from the pumps due to emmission issues. However, not long ago in the grand sceme of things, BMW had huge issues with the sulfer content in the fuel and it was causing the Nickasil to deterioriate. BMW replaced many engines from the failure.
If you really want to go crazy, have the liners replaced with iron ones and bore and stroke the engine to 7+ liters. That would solve any power needs you may have. Check out some of the Porsche 928 boards. They are doing some crazy things to the engines.
#30
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2003 W211 E55, 2003 W220 S600
Yes that is the reason why i need to replace or over haul my engine. Cyl 8 Piston has a quarter sized hole melted through the piston trying understand why this happened. But needless to say im thinking maybe i can get the forged pistons & maybe a ported and polished head installed if the dealer is willing to do the install. My friend is my S.A SO this may work.
What tune and mods did you have on your car or was it a stock?
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
The piston is the issue as well as the rings in an Alusil bore. In the nickasil bore, it's the rings. Most high quality pistons will work with the nickasil coating. However, with the Alusil bore, it's tough to find a piston that is compatable with the bore. You can't use an uncoated piston in the Alusil and the only ones, I'll say it again, that make coatings that work in the Alusil bore are Kolbenschmidt and Mahle. These engines are way too expensive to be a testbed for someone elses coating that's not used by the manufacturers.
If you are deadset on modifying the engine, go with Nickasil and a custom set of forged pistons. There are a few companies that have great sucess modifying motorcycle and Porsche engines with Nickasil. Many engines come with Nickasil from the factory. The only downside is high sulfer gas. But, my best recollection, I think all the high sulfer fuel has been removed from the pumps due to emmission issues. However, not long ago in the grand sceme of things, BMW had huge issues with the sulfer content in the fuel and it was causing the Nickasil to deterioriate. BMW replaced many engines from the failure.
If you really want to go crazy, have the liners replaced with iron ones and bore and stroke the engine to 7+ liters. That would solve any power needs you may have. Check out some of the Porsche 928 boards. They are doing some crazy things to the engines.
If you are deadset on modifying the engine, go with Nickasil and a custom set of forged pistons. There are a few companies that have great sucess modifying motorcycle and Porsche engines with Nickasil. Many engines come with Nickasil from the factory. The only downside is high sulfer gas. But, my best recollection, I think all the high sulfer fuel has been removed from the pumps due to emmission issues. However, not long ago in the grand sceme of things, BMW had huge issues with the sulfer content in the fuel and it was causing the Nickasil to deterioriate. BMW replaced many engines from the failure.
If you really want to go crazy, have the liners replaced with iron ones and bore and stroke the engine to 7+ liters. That would solve any power needs you may have. Check out some of the Porsche 928 boards. They are doing some crazy things to the engines.
#33
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2004 W211 E55K, GL550
First off i want to say thanks to all the guys on here who have gave me and offered there help and expertist. As far as the mods i have on my car it is pretty much bolt ons, Headers,pulley,(H.E & johnson pump) these 2 i really don't concider performance mods but preventitive mods,K&N filters and secondary cats & resinators deleted,tune was done by Jeremy when he was at power chip. From what i have heard and seen he is a very trusted & knowledgeable professional. So as far as the finger pointing on my half i don't want to do any of that yet till i can have them pull apart the motor & further investigate what really happened as far as the detination in the cyl. So again thanks for all the great advice and opinions. I will keep you guys posted on what happens.
#34
First off i want to say thanks to all the guys on here who have gave me and offered there help and expertist. As far as the mods i have on my car it is pretty much bolt ons, Headers,pulley,(H.E & johnson pump) these 2 i really don't concider performance mods but preventitive mods,K&N filters and secondary cats & resinators deleted,tune was done by Jeremy when he was at power chip. From what i have heard and seen he is a very trusted & knowledgeable professional. So as far as the finger pointing on my half i don't want to do any of that yet till i can have them pull apart the motor & further investigate what really happened as far as the detination in the cyl. So again thanks for all the great advice and opinions. I will keep you guys posted on what happens.
I remember sometime late last year you were asking me about Jeremy and my thoughts of his tune. Like always I highly recommended him and still do. If I remember correctly your car made good power with a tune/pulley at FMU last August (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tor-union.html). Since then it seems as though you added a few things which a re-tune would definitely be in order. If you don't mind me asking who did the re-tune? I know Jeremy did the initial tune but is he also responsible for the re-tune, or did you go back to PC after Jeremy left. I understand you're not blaming Jeremy but I'm just looking for clarification. Once again sorry to hear of your motor and unfortunately it's something we're all scared of.
#35
Out Of Control!!
First off i want to say thanks to all the guys on here who have gave me and offered there help and expertist. As far as the mods i have on my car it is pretty much bolt ons, Headers,pulley,(H.E & johnson pump) these 2 i really don't concider performance mods but preventitive mods,K&N filters and secondary cats & resinators deleted,tune was done by Jeremy when he was at power chip. From what i have heard and seen he is a very trusted & knowledgeable professional. So as far as the finger pointing on my half i don't want to do any of that yet till i can have them pull apart the motor & further investigate what really happened as far as the detination in the cyl. So again thanks for all the great advice and opinions. I will keep you guys posted on what happens.
#36
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2004 W211 E55K, GL550
Sorry to hear of your unfortunate outcome.
I remember sometime late last year you were asking me about Jeremy and my thoughts of his tune. Like always I highly recommended him and still do. If I remember correctly your car made good power with a tune/pulley at FMU last August (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tor-union.html). Since then it seems as though you added a few things which a re-tune would definitely be in order. If you don't mind me asking who did the re-tune? I know Jeremy did the initial tune but is he also responsible for the re-tune, or did you go back to PC after Jeremy left. I understand you're not blaming Jeremy but I'm just looking for clarification. Once again sorry to hear of your motor and unfortunately it's something we're all scared of.
I remember sometime late last year you were asking me about Jeremy and my thoughts of his tune. Like always I highly recommended him and still do. If I remember correctly your car made good power with a tune/pulley at FMU last August (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tor-union.html). Since then it seems as though you added a few things which a re-tune would definitely be in order. If you don't mind me asking who did the re-tune? I know Jeremy did the initial tune but is he also responsible for the re-tune, or did you go back to PC after Jeremy left. I understand you're not blaming Jeremy but I'm just looking for clarification. Once again sorry to hear of your motor and unfortunately it's something we're all scared of.
#37
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
BlownV8 - Thanks for the reply and post..interesting stuff. Not that I would but can the 5.4L E55 really be punched out to 7L and still maintain block strength even though it might be running iron liners? I have seen only a few 928 blocks punch out past 6L, and I frequent the 928forums, I do recall a 7L 928 block.
I'm currently looking into increasing the stroke to 3.80" from our stock 3.62" with 5.7" Ti rods making that a 383 cu in / 6.28L. I know that's possible, but I'm trying to find out if a longer rod is possible and what's the max stroke I can go with.
#39
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I am also looking into iron sleeves for my exta block and end up in the a 6.2 litre range.. Darton sleeves can get it done!
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
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#40
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#41
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2005 E55 AMG - - 2005 SL55 AMG - - - - - - 2006 SLK55 AMG - - - - - - 2013 Ducati Diavel AMG -
My engine is currently disassembled. My valve springs were never upgraded and the valves floated and struck a piston and trashed the cams. My heads are ported and polished and have oversized valves with VRP/PTE cams. Since all the valve train needs to be rebuilt I decided to upgrade the bottom end as well. I’m now going with a different piston design with higher compression, stroked titanium rods, and trying to get some custom high lift cams made.
And yes I'm using a different engine house this time!
#42
...You can't use an uncoated piston in the Alusil and the only ones, I'll say it again, that make coatings that work in the Alusil bore are Kolbenschmidt and Mahle. These engines are way too expensive to be a testbed for someone elses coating that's not used by the manufacturers.
...
...
Are you really trying to get us to believe that none of the specialized coating processors (i.e. Swain) have figured out how to make a coating to work with Alusil bores? I mean, let's be honest, Alusil isn't exactly cutting edge and has been around for decades.
#43
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
I have heard some people trying their coatings in the an Alusil bore but I have not seen any long term results. If it works, I would be the first to jump on board. I and many others have tried different coatings over the last decade or so but I have not seen any that have worked over the long haul. The only thing I have seen that works is to use a Mahle or Kolbenschmidt piston made from Alusil or cote the cylinders with Nickasil or Lokasil. You can then use an aftermarket piston and not worry about scuffing with the Nickasil.
Another issue, even if you have a coating that works, when using an aftermarket piston is that the aluminum is different than the bore and has a different expansion rate. The aftermarket forged pistons expand 30% to 50% more than a stock Alusil piston. What's that mean to someone who is rebuilding their engine? You have to run .0040 or greater clearance. What's that do? It causes high oil consumption and piston rattle on start-up.
Here is some interesting reading.
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_bo...rybodys_ideas/
http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep4/EP10-2008_18.pdf
http://www.lnengineering.com/whynickies.html
Call someone who rebuilds these engines full time:
http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/m...ne-booklet.pdf
#46
Super Member
I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. Got a question I'm hoping someone could answer:
Does anyone know (for sure) what coating MB uses to line the cylinder? I believe its Alusil but need to confirm.
I'm in the process of building a CLK55 engine I recently purchased.
JE told me they could make a set of forged pistons that will directly replace my stockers. The cost should be around $1500 for the set.
Does anyone know (for sure) what coating MB uses to line the cylinder? I believe its Alusil but need to confirm.
I'm in the process of building a CLK55 engine I recently purchased.
JE told me they could make a set of forged pistons that will directly replace my stockers. The cost should be around $1500 for the set.
#47
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Accaully the re-tune was done at fluid at the time jeremy was contacted via phone and files were sent via email cant say for sure how much info he received over the phone or email and if he was able to view the files in order to make the proper adjustments to the files for the re-tune. AGAIN i would like to stress that i am not mad or upset at anybody that has done any type of work on my car. I just hope we all can learn from whatever comes out of this unfortunate situation that i am in. Thanks for your thoughts and concerns and agian i will give more info once i learn more and figure out what really happened.
not the first issue with FMU...
#49
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. Got a question I'm hoping someone could answer:
Does anyone know (for sure) what coating MB uses to line the cylinder? I believe its Alusil but need to confirm.
I'm in the process of building a CLK55 engine I recently purchased.
JE told me they could make a set of forged pistons that will directly replace my stockers. The cost should be around $1500 for the set.
Does anyone know (for sure) what coating MB uses to line the cylinder? I believe its Alusil but need to confirm.
I'm in the process of building a CLK55 engine I recently purchased.
JE told me they could make a set of forged pistons that will directly replace my stockers. The cost should be around $1500 for the set.
#50
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
JE has been providing pistons for Porsche applications for years. Porsche cylinder walls are basically the same as MB's. Although not listed, they probably already have pistons for the 113. I know they also have pistons for Ferrari as I have them in my C4 12 cylinder.
http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Au...e/Porsche.aspx
http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Au...e/Porsche.aspx