Benz-O-Rama

My next set of mods will have to be in the cooling dept. Either larger H/E and rear reservoir, or cooling the combustion chamber directly with meth.

I have no experience with meth, so I'm also concerned about something going boom. I probably wouldn't use it to get more aggressive with timing and boost, but rather to keep IATs from getting too high and the ECU pulling timing.

I need to educate myself a bit, I think.

tgoss

Shardul,

Are you guys pleased with the results of the single nozzle instead of doing a dual nozzle progressive kit?

TIA

shardul

iTrader: (1)

yes from what i have seen the single nozzle setup works well.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

yes as long as you use water or a water/meth misxture just to control IATs you will be fine. Problems start coming when you start tuning for meth and add timing etc.

LOCO 05' E55

Have heard meth can put you right around ambient if not below at WOT!! How true is this?

shardul

iTrader: (1)

that is what i have heard also. But with a single nozzle and 185mm they were at 104-107 in 95F ambient that is what i have seen

bassn_07

IMO, meth shouldn't be ran without some type of logging feature. I have several fail safes and alarms that will warn me well in advance to get off the throttle if a problems should occur. I also have a kill switch inside the cabin that's easily accessible in case something in my system should fail. Make no mistake, meth will take your engine quickly if you're not careful.

I usually see right around 80-90 degrees depending on ambient temps. For example, on a 60 degree day I will get right around 80 and on a 95 degree day I'll see 90. I've spoken with Devils Own and they believe my system is very well dialed in and recommended not tweaking it anymore. I have the ability to easily change when i activate the meth, from IAT's, RPM's, TP, and boost. Or I could setup complex triggers to meet several of these parameters. For instance, I could turn on the meth if the TP goes above 85% at 6 pounds of boost and trigger an alarm if IAT's go above 100 degrees. The options go on forever!

Just be careful and make sure you don't take the meth lightly.

tgoss

That's good news. Are you running a single or dual nozzle set up?

LOCO 05' E55

. Tx for sharing, those are great numbers and sounds like it is pretty well dialed in..for me safety should be first at this point so I got me the Labonte stg 4 kit,which I'm sure is right up there with Devils O. kit when it comes to safety features..my car just doesn't like the 180mm so I'm hoping that will change and my car stops pulling the little timing it has in it

bassn_07

I hear Labonte makes a great kit. I take it that you're running the progressive system? A progressive system seems like a great idea but I would think that a turbo system would benefit more from that. On a turbo the boost gradually builds but on our supercharger full boost is almost instant. On WOT throttle runs my logs show that I'm at full boost within a second. Either way I look forward to seeing your system in action.

Edit: I will say that meth isn't the miracle mod that will make our cars soo much faster. It will help us run safer and cooler but without tuning for it the gains will be minimal if any. On a good note my EGT's are also down 100 degrees.

LOCO 05' E55

Totally agree- the results I'm looking to get is to lower my IATs way lower than 150 after quick 100mph runs..I never ran a large reservoir tank so for me this should make a huge difference if not is coming right off! but I could only imagine if you tune for it..right now consistency is key

Worth the wait

Alan, thanks for all your input, it is greatly appreciated.
I have a few questions, if you wouldn't mind clarifying a few points of confusion for me that may help others with better understanding of meth.

I am not sure how you have your system tuned, so that might be it.

I am planning on simply spraying a mostly water based mix in the same location as Shardul used. It will be activated via boost, so used exclusively for WOT runs to keep IAT's under 140. I am not tuning for it at all. At the track I will be using race gas (100 combined rating) with my "race map" which is designed to advance timing a bit to utilize the higher octane.

My understanding is that I really wouldn't be at any risk if the meth quits. The idea being that it is only to control temps, so if it quits I am exactly where I am today. Obviously my IAT's would rise, causing the car to pull timing and eventually shut down the SC...thus robbing power.

So where is the danger?


While I haven't done consistent logs at the track, I imagine with IAT's over 150 for the back 1/8 I am leaving power behind because the car is pulling timing in response to elevated IAT's. At the next outing my 2 goals are improved 60" (driver mod ftw...lol) and more precise logging. I want to see exactly what my IAT's and timing are through the full run.
I expect a meth injection system would allow the engine to run more timing through the whole 1/4 mile run if I am able to reduce IAT's to less than 140.

This has to translate to more power and better times, no?



Not trying to contradict your statements, just trying to figure it out as best I can.

Thanks guys!

bassn_07

My biggest fear wasn't running out of meth or having it fail but instead hydro locking the engine. I'm not sure how often it happens but it does. Just imagine you're out there blasting away and all of a sudden your pump doesn't stop pumping, check valve failure, or even solenoid failure. This was never a concern until it almost happened to a friend and fortunately his engine survived.

I'm definitely no expert on water/meth, I just did my research and set my system up accordingly. You guys should do the same. Please just don't be naive and think it's a risk free mod with no possible consequences. Our engines are too expensive to take lightly.

Please feel free to give your opinions on the subject, I'm sure we could all learn...I know I still am. The words "Make no mistake, meth will take your engine quickly if you're not careful." may have been overly exaggerated but that's honestly what I'm scared of. Obviously not scared enough not to run the system but I feel I addressed all my concerns with a counter and feel quite confident. Good luck boys and have fun with the meth!!!!

stevebez

I have hooked up my WI to run with fuel injector duty cycle.... I can add the parameter of adding more (or less flow) according to boost but as Alan says our boost is pretty linear.

I have no doubt the system will not add power, but will reduce the chances of being robbed of power on longer runs. This also will add additional stresses on the motor which in itself can have its consequences.

One thing that worries me is if you spray without full vaporisation the IAT sensor gets a wetbulb reading which is lower than the true dry air temp (bit like blowing air over something thats wet - it instantly feels colder), which may allow the ecu to run the motor to a more marginal level in terms of timing, so something else to consider.

Hydrolocking is a major concern for me and I think I may add a checkvalve to the system to avoid vacuum drain through the system.

Philly Single

There's some huge threads on meth injection over on supraforums.com - dyno or drag section. I used it for years on my Supra and loved it...but true, some guys did have problems. Wish I had my thread handy....I had documentation (dyno and logs) showing with and without meth.

Def thinking about something like this for the S65.

Jay

Worth the wait

Great points guys!
Hydrolock, I honestly never thought of that. Been concerned about flow stopping, never considered the pump NOT stopping...lol. Thanks Alan.

I understand and agree that meth will not add power in most scenarios, however I certaintly hope the lower IAT's equate to quicker 60-130 runs and higher traps.
Oh well, I guess the only way to find out is to slap some meth on that ***** and run the snot outta her

bassn_07

I'm Mr. Overkill when it comes to protecting my engine...ask others that know me. I run a check valve, solenoid, and a kill switch inside the cockpit to easily shut down all power to the pump. I would basically need 3 things to fail at the same time in order to prevent hydolocking my engine. It's a slim chance of that ever happening but in case it ever does I feel prepared.

Just make sure you don't go oversize on the nozzle. A larger nozzle will possibly richen up your AFR's to a point that you'll definitely be slower without tuning for it. What seems to be working great for me is the M10 nozzle which added about 1/2 point of fuel. I could easily remove a 1/2 point of fuel through tuning and still feel safe if the meth should fail at WOT. All though with my logging features I'll know well before that.

Bramage

Hydrolock is the biggest fear outside of going lean. Vacuum in the engine could siphon fluid, and when you go to start...


I will be doing the Solenoid, check valve and cut out switch as well. Someone is helping me, can’t say who

LOCO 05' E55

"Just make sure you don't go oversize on the nozzle. A larger nozzle will possibly richen up your AFR's to a point that you'll definitely be slower without tuning for it." So too large a nozzle or going with two nozzles might cause the same scenario ah...I've also been told is not recommended to spray pre-blower because of the corrosion it would cause the blades and bearing eventually..one seems to work just fine apparently..

shardul

iTrader: (1)

LOL there is no secret to installing a meth kit it is not rocket science

Worth the wait

Yeah, but you live in Texas. Clearly you guys are smarter than the rest of us.....

Clearly we are over thinking this a bit, but better over than under.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

not smarter we just choose to share our findings
sharing is caring

bassn_07

It's definitely not rocket science but a careful approach should be taken when installing. Sure it's easy now since Sneaky did all the leg work but up until now how many people talked about it? We owe Sneaky a big thanks on the trial and error of the meth setup.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

yes as i mentioned in my first post on this thread this would not have been possible without Nicholas aka sneakyneon's help

i am waiting to follow you on the killerchiller mod

Bramage

It is rocket science....

Methanol (CH3OH) can be produced from the Marian atmosphere with little difficulty. This fact makes methanol an attractive propulsion fuel option for Mars exploration missions. Using methanol as a rocket propulsion fuel also addresses key issues in current state-of-the-art hydrocarbon cooled rocket engines, such as coking, environmental compatibility and ground processing operations, from exhaust product and safety standpoints, respectively. Coking is a major problem that limits the op-eration and performance of such systems. Methanol can be decomposed endothermically, in the presence of a catalyst, into carbon monoxide and hydrogen, absorbing a great deal of enthalpy in the process. It can also absorb more enthalpy for a given temperature change than hydrogen, making it a superior coolant. A methanol fuel rocket system can use the test and operational infrastructure that are currently in place to support current hydrocarbon fueled engine systems. Additionally, it is likely that no exotic, advanced technologies will be required to develop low-cost, modest perform-ance methanol fuel rocket engine systems. Use of this low-cost propulsion system technology should provide significant improvement in life cycle cost, reliability, and safety of future space sys-tems, as well as make both manned and unmanned Mars exploration missions, attractive, realistic cost options.