KLR CLS

So I have been looking into options for Ring Gear swaps. I already have a factory LSD being a P030 car. Everything I have investigated seems to point to the fact that 05-08 SRT-8 Cars use the same getrag/Mettingen diff as the e55. The Quiafe LSD is the same part for both cars. They look physically the same. The stock ring gear options are even the same( 2.82, 3.06).

I beleive the 215mm ring gear options available for the SRT-8's will work for us. They have 3.06, 3.23,3.55,3.73, AND 3.92 Options.

The TCM/EGS is the same siemens/VDO part in both cars, just with diffenent coding. They are easily reporgrammed in the LX platform with things like the Diablo tuners. Kleemann can also reprogram the the TCM/EGS in our cars for different ratios.

Can anybody confirm the ring gear diameter on the e55 diff, or do you know the original getrag/Mettingen model/part number?

I may try this shortly with a 3.23. I was going to go with a Pro Torque 2800 Billet Stator stall, mostly for the launch, but I think new gears would reduce the stress on the trans, and provide the same torque multiplication, and provide a performance/acceleration benefit in everyday driving not just for launching at the track.

Thoughts?

shardul

iTrader: (1)

you are onto something i have heard someone in the past talk about the same diff being used on the SRT-8

KLR CLS

I am 99% convinced these will work. Think I am going to order a set. Any Vendors want to sponsor the TCM/EGS Reprogram in the name of science( cough*EC*cough*Kleemann*Cough) The game is afoot.....

shardul

iTrader: (1)

pm jerry i am sure he will like to take a stab at it

Jakpro1

Gotta have tcu programmed for it or it's limp mode city. Kleeman has the file for up to 3.06, but not 3.23

KLR CLS

The TCM is literally the exactly same unit as LX platform cars. You can buy a 229.99 Diablo predator to tune that TCM for LX cars. I can't image the CAN bus being so differnt. Also if Kleenman can do 3.06 they can do anything, it's just math. Unless Kleemann is just buying a code from someone else and reselling it.

splinter

Certainly seems easy enough on the Chrysler… link

chawkins2001

I have gone down this path many times and always seem to be, the car will go into limp mode as the coding is not there for the swap. I would not bother with a 3.23 man. If you are going to go big, go at least 3.55 or 3.73. Given your top end will suffer quite a bit but who wants to go 180mph. Your CLS will feel like a monster down low with a 3.55 or 3.73 I would much rather have my beast run 10's all day long than go 180mph on the highway.

That with a quaiffe swap might be a better investment than a pulley swap and tune in terms of 1/4 drag. That is, if they can ever get the coding correct for the diff upgrade. To top it off, I would have a super light weight carbon fibre driveshaft made to spool the ring and pinion up even faster and reduce vibration.

KLR CLS

3.55's will be crazy with my torque!...But just crazy enough to try! I agree, I will never need to go 200 mph, but 130+ in the 1/4 would be nice! Working on the coding options now. Stay tuned. I WILL MAKE THIS WORK!

chawkins2001

I will be the first to upgrade my rear end, been waiting for this for a while now, will go with 3.55 at least

chiromikey

lx "experts" have been saying this since the existence of srt8 modding and every single one of them have blown up amg transmissions with that belief in mind. good luck but be very careful who you listen to or you'll end up spending a lot of money on new hardware as well.

KLR CLS

I have read about the issues with valvebody mods etc, but not convinced that isn't due to installation or something else. I have seen pics of opened valve body's from NAG1 cars, and they are litterally OEM mercedes parts with mercedes part numbers( see herer: http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=17590). There is no doubt that the TCM's are indeed the same Siemens EGS52. I have pics confirming this down to the same controllers. Surely the coding is different, but nothing that can't be easily modified. I am working on something with EC, but failing that I have another avenue. Getting real excited about this.

Pete

chiromikey

i agree mb hardware is borrowed for the lx platform but it's definitely not controlled under the same parameters. that imho is where the problems arise.

looking forward to your progress!

chawkins2001

I could not imagine our cars with this upgrade, you think you have a tq monster now, what till you swap out your ring and pinion.

sgtstanko

The valve bodies are IDENTICAL, as a matter of fact buying a valve body from MB for my Jeep is cheaper than buying it from Chrysler or Jeep. All these horror "stories" are more related to sloppy installation. The NAG1 valve body has external connectors that if installed improperly will blow out or cause fluid leaks.

The SRT LX guys now have a new MOPAR TCM that raises the line pressure and shift points via the Diablo hand held. The SRT8 Jeep guys have learned that it wont work in the Jeep because our handheld does not have access to that cell. However, to get around that we install the TCM in an LX make the changes then install it in the Jeep. It fools the ECU and gives us the RPM and line pressure desired.

chiromikey

if programming the tcm is as easy as that, why haven't you done this in your e55?

and i highly doubt you were there during all the vb installs. knowing some of the people that performed these installs, i'd highly doubt they performed it "sloppily"!!!

sgtstanko

What are you talking about??? When did I say it could be done or I wanted to do it to mine. If you stop to actually read what I stated, it was about the SRT8 LX to the SRT8 Jeep. Again, if you READ I never stated this could be done to an E55. There is no handheld programmer for these dinosaurs.

and "You highly doubt"??? So you dont know for fact?? You know what.... you have a big keyboard and a mouth to match. What you need is to learn how to open a tool box. I have replaced a few NAG1 valve bodies and have first hand knowledge, unlike you who only "know people who" and "highly doubt".

You have made a few comments in the past on my postings and demonstarted to me you lack of automotive knowledge.... and you just did it again.

chiromikey

lol, i know what you said and my point is that if it can't be done on an e55 then don't offer it to the conversation as if it has any relevance. and you're right, instead of saying "i highly doubt..." i should have said, I DO KNOW FOR A FACT that you haven't been present for every vb install so please don't insult everyone's intelligence by somehow implying that you were.

sorry if you don't like my big keyboard calling out lx guys acting like everything on their cars are plug-n-play parts off the w211 platform. i've watched good friends lose lots of money believing these people and until more r&d shows otherwise i'll continue to speak my mind whether it offends you or not.

sgtstanko

LMAO......There you go again.... spurtting out opinion like a fit of diaherria. Thinking your someone who has revelence on this forum because you have 4,000 post contributing nothing based on nothing. No dyno sheets, track time, pictures...not a damn thing! Not having any personal experience, but taking up good space with negative opinion.... based on what??? Supposed "good friends"(which I doubt you have) that didnt have enough sense to recognize when gravel was being poured in the their Vaseline??? Dude some of "your friends" have more money than automotive sense. Otherwise you wouldnt be whining so much about things you really dont understand or have first hand experience with. You wouldnt know a NAG1 valve body if it came to you in a pizza box.

You dont know sht. What you should do is buy a screw driver and a couple of allen wrenches(you can google those two items), take an automotive class or read a couple of Hot Rod Magazines so you at least sound like you know what your talking about...... instead of basing "fact" off what you read on the internet or some rummy friend of your tells you. You are way to emotional about the SRT8 platform sharing the sacred MB emblem. Too bad.....because fact is ...it does!!

Just because you own an old E55 doesnt make you some expert. Trust me, based off some your history and comments you are FAR from someone who should be giving advice. You remind me of a lost ball in tall weeds!

You can go back on every one of your threads and you have nothing to contribute but opinon. Arent you the guy that the members call out and never shows for any track meet? Incompetence to those that recognize it.... abounds off your keyboard pal.

Like you stated in your post....."I was right"....you just keep on repeating that to yourself and you'll be ok!

BTW......Your comments remind me of of an old saying....."A wise man listens while fool chatters". Think about that one Mikey!

chiromikey

your last statement hit the nail on the head!

please, there's no need for spin...just because i'm hoping others don't make some of the same mistakes that have already cost people time and money doesn't make my post negative.

as far as the digs on my character or whether or not i have friends, i find it sad that you feel the need to make personal attacks. regardless, i'm not sure who you have me confused with and it's obvious you haven't been on this forum long enough to know me or my history, but my personal experience modding and racing the w211 e55 outweighs most people here...and that DEFINITELY includes you! not that i need to prove anything to you and i'm sorry to point out MORE of your misinformation, but i've been attending amg track events, pioneering mods, and providing quite useful dyno/track/data logging info since before you owned an e55 or srt8. you speak about my post history as if you've even gone through it. i suggest you do because you will find every piece of criteria you claim represents positive contribution to this forum.

it's guys like you that have pushed many of the early contributors of this forum on to other less confrontational venues.

btw, i have the utmost respect for the srt8 platform so please don't try to imply otherwise.

skratch77

You will get slower in the 1/4 with those gears.our cars are geared almost perfect in the first 3 gears.We need custom 3rd and 4th gearing to make 3rd redline at 125 mph to get faster times.

I did gearing on my m3 and on the street it felt faster but lost time shifting gears more tracking it.

If a could I would make first 3 mph longer,second 2 mph longer,third 3 mph shorter and 4th 15mph shorter

I have problems with tc kicking in now and would use my torque and longer gearing to an advantege and the car would be in a better peak power band going into 3rd down the 1/4

KLR CLS

It depends if the acceleration benefits of the gearing improve performance in the 1/4 more than the added delay from shifting. No matter what, in gear acceleration and power to the ground will be improved with shorter geaing.

Looking at the math I am debating the 3.06 vs the 3.23 for comprimise of street perfomance vs the track. You have a point that the torque we make definately allows for longer gearing. I can also get a whole stock 3.06 SRT8 diff for like $400 pumpkin and all. I could then just swap my LSD into that housing and not have to worry about swaping the pinion gear, making for a simpler install.

Soon as I hear back on the EGS coding I will make a decision. Hell maybe I'll try them both!

Here is a list of max RPM per gear for different ratios with my hoosiers as the rooling diameter starting with stock:
RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
500 4 7 10 14 17
600 5 8 12 17 21
700 6 9 14 20 24
800 6 11 16 23 28
900 7 12 18 26 31
1000 8 13 20 29 35
1100 9 14 23 32 38
1200 10 16 25 35 42
1300 10 17 27 38 45
1400 11 18 29 40 49
1500 12 20 31 43 52
1600 13 21 33 46 56
1700 14 22 35 49 59
1800 14 24 37 52 63
1900 15 25 39 55 66
2000 16 26 41 58 70
2100 17 28 43 61 73
2200 18 29 45 63 76
2300 18 30 47 66 80
2400 19 32 49 69 83
2500 20 33 51 72 87
2600 21 34 53 75 90
2700 22 36 55 78 94
2800 23 37 57 81 97
2900 23 38 59 84 101
3000 24 40 61 87 104
3100 25 41 63 89 108
3200 26 42 65 92 111
3300 27 43 68 95 115
3400 27 45 70 98 118
3500 28 46 72 101 122
3600 29 47 74 104 125
3700 30 49 76 107 129
3800 31 50 78 110 132
3900 31 51 80 113 136
4000 32 53 82 115 139
4100 33 54 84 118 143
4200 34 55 86 121 146
4300 35 57 88 124 149
4400 35 58 90 127 153
4500 36 59 92 130 156
4600 37 61 94 133 160
4700 38 62 96 136 163
4800 39 63 98 138 167
4900 39 65 100 141 170
5000 40 66 102 144 174
5100 41 67 104 147 177
5200 42 69 106 150 181
5300 43 70 108 153 184
5400 43 71 110 156 188
5500 44 72 113 159 191
5600 45 74 115 162 195
5700 46 75 117 164 198
5800 47 76 119 167 202
5900 47 78 121 170 205
6000 48 79 123 173 209
6100 49 80 125 176 212
6200 50 82 127 179 216
6300 51 83 129 182 219
6400 51 84 131 185 222
6500 52 86 133 188 226
6600 53 87 135 190 229
6700 54 88 137 193 233
6800 55 90 139 196 236
6900 55 91 141 199 240

2.82
RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
500 4 6 10 14 16
600 5 7 12 16 20
700 5 9 13 19 23
800 6 10 15 22 26
900 7 11 17 24 29
1000 8 12 19 27 33
1100 8 14 21 30 36
1200 9 15 23 33 39
1300 10 16 25 35 42
1400 11 17 27 38 46
1500 11 19 29 41 49
1600 12 20 31 43 52
1700 13 21 33 46 56
1800 14 22 35 49 59
1900 14 24 37 52 62
2000 15 25 38 54 65
2100 16 26 40 57 69
2200 17 27 42 60 72
2300 17 28 44 62 75
2400 18 30 46 65 78
2500 19 31 48 68 82
2600 20 32 50 70 85
2700 20 33 52 73 88
2800 21 35 54 76 91
2900 22 36 56 79 95
3000 23 37 58 81 98
3100 23 38 60 84 101
3200 24 40 62 87 105
3300 25 41 63 89 108
3400 26 42 65 92 111
3500 26 43 67 95 114
3600 27 45 69 98 118
3700 28 46 71 100 121
3800 29 47 73 103 124
3900 29 48 75 106 127
4000 30 50 77 108 131
4100 31 51 79 111 134
4200 32 52 81 114 137
4300 32 53 83 117 140
4400 33 54 85 119 144
4500 34 56 87 122 147
4600 35 57 88 125 150
4700 35 58 90 127 154
4800 36 59 92 130 157
4900 37 61 94 133 160
5000 38 62 96 136 163
5100 39 63 98 138 167
5200 39 64 100 141 170
5300 40 66 102 144 173
5400 41 67 104 146 176
5500 42 68 106 149 180
5600 42 69 108 152 183
5700 43 71 110 155 186
5800 44 72 112 157 189
5900 45 73 113 160 193
6000 45 74 115 163 196
6100 46 76 117 165 199
6200 47 77 119 168 203
6300 48 78 121 171 206
6400 48 79 123 174 209
6500 49 80 125 176 212
6600 50 82 127 179 216
6700 51 83 129 182 219
6800 51 84 131 184 222
6900 52 85 133 187 225

3.06
RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
500 3 6 9 12 15
600 4 7 11 15 18
700 5 8 12 17 21
800 6 9 14 20 24
900 6 10 16 22 27
1000 7 11 18 25 30
1100 8 13 19 27 33
1200 8 14 21 30 36
1300 9 15 23 32 39
1400 10 16 25 35 42
1500 10 17 27 37 45
1600 11 18 28 40 48
1700 12 19 30 42 51
1800 13 21 32 45 54
1900 13 22 34 47 57
2000 14 23 35 50 60
2100 15 24 37 52 63
2200 15 25 39 55 66
2300 16 26 41 57 69
2400 17 27 43 60 72
2500 17 29 44 62 75
2600 18 30 46 65 78
2700 19 31 48 67 81
2800 19 32 50 70 84
2900 20 33 51 72 87
3000 21 34 53 75 90
3100 22 35 55 77 93
3200 22 37 57 80 96
3300 23 38 58 82 99
3400 24 39 60 85 102
3500 24 40 62 87 105
3600 25 41 64 90 108
3700 26 42 66 92 111
3800 26 43 67 95 114
3900 27 44 69 97 117
4000 28 46 71 100 120
4100 29 47 73 102 123
4200 29 48 74 105 126
4300 30 49 76 107 129
4400 31 50 78 110 132
4500 31 51 80 112 135
4600 32 52 82 115 138
4700 33 54 83 117 141
4800 33 55 85 120 144
4900 34 56 87 122 148
5000 35 57 89 125 151
5100 35 58 90 127 154
5200 36 59 92 130 157
5300 37 60 94 132 160
5400 38 62 96 135 163
5500 38 63 97 137 166
5600 39 64 99 140 169
5700 40 65 101 142 172
5800 40 66 103 145 175
5900 41 67 105 147 178
6000 42 68 106 150 181
6100 42 70 108 152 184
6200 43 71 110 155 187
6300 44 72 112 157 190
6400 45 73 113 160 193
6500 45 74 115 162 196
6600 46 75 117 165 199
6700 47 76 119 167 202
6800 47 78 121 170 205
6900 48 79 122 172 208
3.23
RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
500 3 5 8 12 14
600 4 6 10 14 17
700 5 8 12 17 20
800 5 9 13 19 23
900 6 10 15 21 26
1000 7 11 17 24 29
1100 7 12 18 26 31
1200 8 13 20 28 34
1300 9 14 22 31 37
1400 9 15 24 33 40
1500 10 16 25 36 43
1600 11 17 27 38 46
1700 11 18 29 40 48
1800 12 19 30 43 51
1900 13 21 32 45 54
2000 13 22 34 47 57
2100 14 23 35 50 60
2200 15 24 37 52 63
2300 15 25 39 54 66
2400 16 26 40 57 68
2500 16 27 42 59 71
2600 17 28 44 62 74
2700 18 29 45 64 77
2800 18 30 47 66 80
2900 19 31 49 69 83
3000 20 32 50 71 86
3100 20 34 52 73 88
3200 21 35 54 76 91
3300 22 36 55 78 94
3400 22 37 57 80 97
3500 23 38 59 83 100
3600 24 39 60 85 103
3700 24 40 62 88 106
3800 25 41 64 90 108
3900 26 42 65 92 111
4000 26 43 67 95 114
4100 27 44 69 97 117
4200 28 45 71 99 120
4300 28 46 72 102 123
4400 29 48 74 104 125
4500 30 49 76 107 128
4600 30 50 77 109 131
4700 31 51 79 111 134
4800 32 52 81 114 137
4900 32 53 82 116 140
5000 33 54 84 118 143
5100 34 55 86 121 145
5200 34 56 87 123 148
5300 35 57 89 125 151
5400 36 58 91 128 154
5500 36 59 92 130 157
5600 37 61 94 133 160
5700 38 62 96 135 163
5800 38 63 97 137 165
5900 39 64 99 140 168
6000 40 65 101 142 171
6100 40 66 102 144 174
6200 41 67 104 147 177
6300 42 68 106 149 180
6400 42 69 107 151 183
6500 43 70 109 154 185
6600 44 71 111 156 188
6700 44 72 112 159 191
6800 45 73 114 161 194
6900 45 75 116 163 197

skratch77

Were on the same page!!! here is a picture of me trying different tires to basically change the ratios and trying to get 3rd gear higher in the rpms crosing the 1/4.

I have it down to.

F14 18s forgesters since they are very light and
265/35/18 nt05 that is 25.31 in inflated or a 275/35/18 with 25.63

So Im basically playing with ratios threw tires.

Looking at your 3.06 ratio your car is going to shift into fourth at 113 MPH,that is going to kill your 1/4 and will give you a harder time getting out the whole from spinning.

KLR CLS

Part of the problem its the relatively short dr's we run. I might switch out to a taller set like the 28"m&h race masters. That would solve some of the gearing at the track and be closer to my street tire diameter of 27.4". The other thing to bear in mind is that the trap mph goes down quite a bit with gears, but so does that et.

Bottom line is gears improve acceleration dramatically and improve seat of the pants feel like almost nothing else. On the street it would be crazy fun and that's where I spend most of my driving time. Maybe i'll switch to 1/8 track ;-)

KLR CLS

Getting alittle closer folks. I have 3.06 gears and a whole spare 3.06 pumpkin coming.I also received my mopar TCM and did alittle quick testing. It plugs right in and car starts with no errors. Goes into gear fine. Took it for a quick spin and it shifted into 3 gears, but seemed like the response and TC slip was not quite right. Might be because the trans is expecting shorter gear, and thus the characteristics of the trans and TC lockup is different. S is displayed on the gear indicator, but its not shifting manually. I think this is because the SRT8's you have to move the gear selector into "Auto Stick" to Shift manually, which likely sends a trigger to the TCM to put it in manual mode. Reverse engagement was also rough. There is an adaptation process that you need to do to calibrate the TCM, which I have not done yet, so that might help. It's not perfect, but its a start and at least it confirms the car will go with a 3.06 control ratio programed in the TCM

Jerry at EC is also close to having something for me to try so shouldn't be too long. I will keep you all posted.

Pete