iceman-kimster

I was driving today and got a message on my display that said " add 1qt. of oil on your next refueling"...
Is that normal?... do I just add a quart of oil and that's it?.. or is there anything else I need to check?

GT-ER

How long have you been going without an oil change?

iceman-kimster

I got my oil changed in September. And I drive my on a daily basis but I work less then 4 miles away... So I put very few miles on it.

nanayaw6

How few is very few, cos mine will go through a quart within 1000 miles

izzyz28

I've seen the message once after about 7,000 or 8,000 miles, but my valvecovers leak. It's always a possibility that the oil level was not brought all the way up to full the last oil change, since it's kind of a guessing game with these cars. Go ahead and add a quart and see how long it takes for the light to come on, though you should probably chage the oil since it's been 6 months.

tgoss

Just add a quart. All will be forgiven

randallaguirre

If it all possible you should try to let you car warm up for 7-10 minutes before putting any load on it. Even in warmer months.

If you drive 4 miles to work without letting it warm up it is consuming more oil than it should your entire commute.

Letting it warm first will allow all engine to run at the tolerances it was designed for.

nanayaw6

Honestly before he adds oil, I think he should go ahead and read the actual level through the service menu. Reason I say this is because the only time I got a drastic oil message on my IC was when my oil level sensor was failing. I added what it said then that thing pops up to say too high.

+1 on letting the warm up each time.

amdeutsch

Letting a car sit and idle nowadays is worse than driving it in terms of warming it up. Plus, letting it sit and idle for that long each time is wasting a valuable resource, GAS.

MrKool

Agreed. A short 2-3 minute warm up is good enough. No need to let the car sit for minutes to get all warmed up, it will warm up FASTER if you drive it (obviously don't step on it as soon as you get out of your driveway)

iceman-kimster

Thanks guys for all the info.. I do let the car warm up for at least 4-5 min everytime before I drive it...
I had the car for almost 2 years and this is the first time I seen that message.. I'll add some oil and keep an eye on it I guess

randallaguirre

Total BS.

Letting a car completely warm up before putting under load can add years to the life of the engine. It decreases blow-by gases. The warmed fluid in the collant actually warms the trans fluid and helps to evaporate condensation in the tranny. It helps to warm the intake to keep cold A/F vapors from condensating on inside of intake runners. There a ton of reasons to let a car fully warm before putting under load. One of the biggest is volumtric efficiency.

You average warming cycle to open/close loop on a EFI car is 7 minutes.

If you're worried so much about "valuable resources" why would you buy a supercharged 5.5L to move a 4000 lb car? Kinda hypocritical.

GT-ER

Add years? So the engine can maybe last, what? 700years?

Sorry, but there is absolutely no proof in what you've just said. As a matter of fact, their is proof against it and even automotive companies agree that letting a car idle to warm up only wastes gasoline. Modern engines have VERY tight tolerances compared to older engines and this are very efficient even when cold. No amount of "warming before driving" will make an engine last longer than it already would without doing this ( which is pretty much forever ).

I'm not talking about romping on it, just regular driving. Going WOT with a cold engine CAN BE BAD in the long run.

randallaguirre

Yes, add years I didn't say something like 700. I merely said "add years", and to just about every system on a car as well.

Your exhaust for instance, the paladium or rhodium(sp) in your cats is meant to warm at a certain rate in order to burn off unspent fuel and air from the motor. At start up a cold engine is given a rich mixture-- driving in this rich mixture mode(open loop) can cause the cats to superheat and eventually burn the cats or melt closed the honeycomb pathways.

Your entire valve train has what is called "lash", these are the tolerances between all moving parts. This lash is decreased as parts warm--dramatically decreasing the forces between these parts--which is meant to be cushioned and lubricated by just a couple thousandths of oil. These minute tolerances can mean the difference between tapping and hammering.

You transmission fluid is also warmed by the warming of the engines coolant. Inside your transmission are many high tolerant parts that rely on your engine warming them up to tolerance.

You entire EFI requires heat to eventually move to a closed loop system. Without a cetain level of heat you will not get enough atomization of the air and fuel... The air and fuel will simply stick to the sides of the runners between the throttle plate and combustion chamber--- thus never reaching a full or close to stoichiometric mixture of 14.7:1. Which runs us back to feeding to much gas to the Cats and burning them up.

I have WAY more experience with building motors than just reading magazines.

I tell you what, if you removed the EPA and the manufactures needing cars to wear out, I bet they would advise letting the car reach closed loop at minimum--- which is around 5 minutes.

Case in point, when I was younger my dad was friends with a guy named Bob Lazier, his son Buddy Lazier was an aspiring Indy car driver(at the time, but later won Indy in 96) Bob and Buddy used to bring me along to the races and practices. One of the things that I thought was really cool was when they would first start the engines they would boil the coolant and then pour it into the motor. WHY, to bring everything into tolerance and avoid any possible wear--- Adding valuable life to a motor.

MrKool

hmm....trying to find it somewhere in the owners manual. Well, there it is, page Page 46, 162, 165, 267, 270...all saying the same thing.."Warm up the engine smoothly"...Allow engine to warm up under low load use"..
I think my lexus's owner's manual clearly states to start driving in a few minutes and warm up the car under low load, it will warm up faster than letting it sit at idle.

soooo...I think I am gonna go with the owners manual.

GT-ER

Again... PROOF!

I too have built engines and transmissions and have more experience than just the regular "I've read it somewhere" knowledge.

What I'm saying is that the difference would be negligible to the point that it may not even be measurable. I've driven cars to nearly 200,000 miles and then disassembled the engine and it shows little wear on it and I have never EVER let a car warm up before use.

As a matter of fact, I once had a 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix which I drove to 120,000 miles and then turbocharged it and drove it to 170,000 miles and then blew a piston ( went lean and I ran a somewhat aggressive spark advance ). When started to tear that engine apart, all the bearings and cylinder walls looked so good that I decided to just replace the broken piston and nothing else and put the engine back in. Ran a leak down test and it passed with flying colors and ran like that for years on end ( sold it soon afterwards so I don't know how many miles it eventually went up to ).

So again, if the difference is an engine lasting 300K+ miles vs. 350K+ miles....then does it even matter? And if it did, what makes you think it wouldn't last longer regardless of warming it up or not?

GT-ER

This is incorrect BTW. The reason it runs in open loop is because the oxygen sensor reads inaccurately when it's cold...thus the reason why it has a built in heater. It has nothing to do with what you just said which makes no real sense.

randallaguirre

UUmmm exactly what I explained is why there is an "open loop startup fuel mapping", otherwise the car would simply start in closed-loop and never need a richer mixture while the engine is warming up. Or in some older vehicles needing an additional cold start injector.

A cold motor will simply not deliver a stoichiometric air ratio. (which is 14.7:1 and the point at which you are maximizing the potential burn rate of every atom of gas)

The most modern of engines have done everything they can to keep moving the injectors closer and closer to and sometimes INSIDE the intake ports to keep the warmup(open loop) process as short as possible.

But, there has to be at least enough distance so the the air charge and mix with the spray pattern of the injector and do everything they can to mix the air and fuel to a perfect 14.7:1 (stoichiometric)

Also, another reason vehicles stay in open loop fuel mapping is to allow the exhaust gasses to reach high enough temp to get an accurate reading which I believe is well over 1000 kelvins.

I used to work for Jim Shofner at AZ Speed and Speed and Marine-- I know fuel injection.

randallaguirre

Funny you should mention this...A longggg time ago my buddy did a "SSEI" conversion from a junk yard on a late 90's Grand Prix. Super quick car.. BUT THE THING CONSTANTLY ATE MOTOR MOUNTS. Especially the bushings in the dog bone mounts.

I imagine you fought these motor mounts too..? Funny thing it would make the steering wheel vibrate VIOLENTLY!

GT-ER

Actually, you said:

Which is NOT what I said.

Wrong again...a cold MODERN engine can EASILY give a stoich A/F Ratio at cold startup...it's just not PROGRAMMED to as it is not ideal on cold startups for reasons other than what you've been stating.

You may know how fuel injection works...but you seem have trouble understanding how a modern engine's ECU works.

You can get a stone cold engine to run at 14.7:1 with ease, it's just not ideal to do due to emissions and quick startup when cold...but it has nothing to do with the ability of the fuel injectors to properly atomize the fuel. This used to be a problem in older carbureted engines and CIS type fueling systems but modern injectors will perfectly atomize fuel even in winter colds.

GT-ER

I've owned two Grand Prix's ( turbocharged both of them ) and have worked on dozens of them and have yet to have an engine failure with them ( except for my blown piston which is irrelevant to the topic ). They do tend to blow head gaskets on higher boost levels but it's irrelevant to the topic. As for the motor mounts...yes...they do suck...lol.

We got WAY off topic though so I don't wish to keep arguing senslessly, this is as far as I go with this.

AMGPilot

WOW, there is a TON of bad info in that post, Hell it's as if Jangy wrote that post