alltrac

have to disagree with that...If you lower the charge temp say 30deg as the air and water mix going through the supercharger, then thoses gains will be realized throughout. I had a turbo car back in the day with water injection pre turbo. The gains were huge! The turbo blew through water to air intercooler similar to ours. Space was a concern at the time so i couldnt upgrade to an air-to-air. The air-to-water couldnt do the job with the mods the car had,,,hence the try at water injection. The difference was night and day. Eventually, I went to a huge air-to-air...but a single nozzle in front of the turbo was well worth it...ask the guy who used to beat me badly in his Mazda 13B Turbo II until the water injection when I walked him multiple times after the install. Dual nozzles apper to be ideal, but one nozzle will help.

TTMotorsports

With a M3 nozzle, there is such a small amount that is actually being sprayed, the meth will cool the rotors and help with the sealing for maximum boost. I've had numerous discussions with Dan Labonte about the M113k's and, while the second nozzle placement he recommended originally didn't really work because of the proximity to the MAP and IAT sensors, the pre-blower location did.

You can always just use a single nozzle before the intercooler if you have any reservations about spraying into the blower.

stevebez

+1

E55Greasemonkey

Old post, and I know you've sold the car..but was it 30 degrees cooler when the nozzle was before or after the IC? I am thinking to duplicate yours/ttm's nozzle placement after staring at the s/c setup for 3 days with no other good solution. The only other option for post-intercooler is to spray from the bottom straight up to avoid hitting the pressire

E55Greasemonkey

pressure sensor directly, or putting it where the iat sensor is and relocating the iat in a surge tank (a hassle because of how it mounts)

Joncl

You can just use one nozzle where shardul used it for hadilaw install. I have seen it done there numerous times and it works flawlessly

E55Greasemonkey

Are you running meth yourself? It seems hadilaw's car is no longer around, kind of makes me go hmmm...

Joncl

I read he had an accident

MAN55LE

I've heard this as well, and when I get mine installed, I'll be doing a single nozzle in that location as well

E55Greasemonkey

I spoke with Devil's Own today. The only way they recommend spraying pre-intercooler is with a drain **** installed there as the mist will hit the core and tend to puddle. When puddles form bad things can happen,they recommend setting it up to minimize any chance of bad things happening. They were good with spraying pre SC and set up many systems this way without problems. I will do the dual system, because I think keeping the SC itself cool is a good start. #3 in the inlet pre-SC, #7 at the Shardul location. (That is the techical term) My opinion, the benefit is a smaller nozzle here for better evaporation and less liquid to foul the map sensor or wet the iat sensor. This also allows access to both nozzles without pulling the sc. If the map sensor fouls I will have an aluminium standoff (spacer) made

E55Greasemonkey

(continued) to move the sensor further away.Hopefully I will have a report in a couple weeks. I may possibly run a slightly leaner tune around 12.0 before meth but leave the timing as-is. Just thinking aloud as I don't have experience with this.

Shifter

So are you sure the meth is ok for the sc blades

MAN55LE

I'm not sure but I thought I read somewhere that it eats away at the special coating on the supercharger screws.

Joncl

It will, meth is corrosive even at 50/50 mix, I would not do pre blower for longevity sake

E55Greasemonkey

From what I can find, all the companies who sell the systems say it's OK to run it before the S/C. Will it wear the coating on our rotors? I guess I'll find out. If it does, there doesn't seem to be any detrimental effects. You'll find 1000 different opinions on either side of the fence too. There are also different types of coatings.

E55Greasemonkey

I just go by what the Meth kit companies say:

From Snow:

To add some information to this thread, we have been doing pre-rotor injection for years on all types of positive displacement blower without issue. In fact we recently had a gentleman post on our forums who runs an M90 Eaton blower on a Mercury Marauder. After a lot of heavy injection, he had the blower removed for porting. It looked brand new. We also had an employee with an 04 Mustang Cobra who did a lot of hard driving and is still using the system, probably 3 years plus of injection now with no problems whatsoever.

This not only makes installation easier, it also greatly reduces the blower case temperature and avoids heat soak on repeated runs.

MAN55LE

Hey many different types of superchargers and certain ones are more efficient than others and had better compression for forced induction, our Lyshom twinscrew superchargers are more efficient compared to the others....to diminish that coating and seal I don't see a benefit..... Going to put a link that you can read and there's another six pages of it, it's very informative and might help us understand all superchargers a little better, on the left side of the website it gives information on all types of vehicle maintenance....http://www.custom-car.us/superchargers/basics.aspx

Shifter

I guess we need to know the type of coating on the sc blades.

E55Greasemonkey

I'll be spraying such a small amount it will probably evaporate fast enough not to be an issue. We'll see.

RedBullJnky

You could always set it up like I did. After the IAT sensor and no tune.

Joncl

Redbull what were your iats after a run at MIR?

E55Greasemonkey

I think that will be counter productive, as the IAT will still see a high temp and pull timing. Then you have the richer mixture to deal with from the meth. I just want to keep my ECU from dumping timing more than anything else.

MAN55LE

One nozzle meth, trunk tank, killer chiller.........anyone have that setup installed?

RedBullJnky

My IATs never went over 110 because I had ice in the tank and two HE with two pumps (one rear mounted) and it was 48*.
I disagree. The lower combustion chamber temps allows max timing for the programming. Water/meth slows the burn rate making smoother power and allowing higher pressures without detonation.
I was also able to maintain peak power through redline.

rockthemullet

The car is using the IAT sensor to adjust timing so while the combustion chamber may see a cooler charge, the ECU is still pulling timing based on the IAT sensor unless the CL is programmed differently. If you can show me a datalog that shows timing unchanged when your IAT sensor is reading 110, I'll buy you a beer.

I have mine halfway between the end of the core and the IAT sensor, as close to horizontal as I could get it. I'm on E85 so I'm running straight water instead of a meth mix.

Before the water injection, on a 60-130mph pull my IATs would run 80-155°F.
After the water injection, on a 60-130mph pull my IATs would run 80-95°F and flatline... effectively teetering that 95°F barrier when the ECU starts to pull timing