rockthemullet

Damn, I was really hoping for better results

E55Greasemonkey

Tell me about it

Here are my dyno sheets. On a good note, my 1st run with meth on made the most power.

Also, I may have accidentally added too much meth to the existing water in the tank, making the cooling suffer. My tests have shown, no matter what nozzle size, and of course it is well known, water cools best. When I start adding meth the cooling effect lessens. Tomorrow it's back to 100% water. I did not try the 100% water yet with the DO1 nozzles and max pump pressure.

E55Greasemonkey

Not much to report, other than what others have already said...the DO1, even with the pump pressure increased and running 100% distilled water isn't big enough. Pretty bored with pulling the SC off every other weekend to change nozzles. I hear ya Bramage on the #10 post-IC, however, the #7 was too big for my setup as the car misfired with 100% water and bogged with 80% water, and didn't cool at all with 50/50 (To be fair I was also running a #3 pre-SC). Remember I'm only running the smaller SC pulley. It's in the 90's here every day. IATs starting at 115+ doesn't help things much. Until someone shows some hard data, track runs or dyno runs, or a real full pass data log showing the 115 IAT dropping below 100 and holding... I'm starting to think this was a waste of time and money, except for the experience. I do think this will work to drop your IAT slightly..but at the same time the water/meth being used to do it is likely causing a power loss, negating any gains from the lower IAT. I may go to a #5 post-IC but at this point I'm completely unimpressed with the meth injection. Not really worth it if you are not tuning for it. Even when I had my IAT holding at 122F vs the 158F with it turned off..I could not feel any difference in power on full pulls. Maybe would have been better off running a very small nitrous shot.

austingtir

On my diesel i can drop my EGT from over 700deg C to 550deg C with the number 7 nozzle. Its pretty much purely to quench the diesel im dumping in it to make power otherwise its going to melt stuff. If I turn off the water and not my chip it will eventually burn my motor up going over 700deg constantly.

I think you should give it one last try with a #5 or 6. If that doesnt do it give up on it.

I get what your saying about not worth it without tuning for it... with my diesel I can get away with just dumping fuel in it and then using water/meth to pull the temps down (still needs to be the right nozzle size though). Its not that easy on a petrol engine.

I also think you should look at your ignition system something doesnt sound right to me with that 7 nozzle and it misfiring and so on.

The trick is getting the balance right.

Also IAT temp readings are not the best way to scientifically reference whats going on. You need EGT a wideband and then the IAT might be usefull.

Georgee6086

Track results. I won't post every pass but in a nut shell picked up mph with the meth. 1.5 hour drive to track, shut the car off for 10-15 mins, idle the car in staging lane for 10 mins,Ambient 80, Iiat starting pass after burnout 130, rip off an whopping 2.055 60ft and 12.52et at 113.10mph, hot lap the car and ran a 12.58 at 115.41 , 2.04 60ft with the meth unfortunately I could not tell the iat at the end of the pass because my scanguage flew of my dash when I launched the car. Let the car sit for about 1hr proceed to stage ambient dropped to 74, iat before pass 100, iat after pass (with meth) 103 1.90 60ft , 12.114et, 116.31 mph, hot lap the car and ran a 12.44 at 117.85mph 2.14 60ft with meth again

Previous best et without meth was 12.32 at 113 with a 1.89 60ft
Today's best pass was 12.1 at 116 with meth.
Previous highest mph without meth was 114mph
Today's highest mph with meth was 117.85 hot lapping

Ambient was the same but it was a different track BUT today's track is notorious for slower times.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

i am running 2 nozzles #7 each in my car without any issue, one nozzle right bank and the other left bank after IC and my IAT sensor in the surge tank, 50/50 mix, without meth my iat are between 170/180 F with meth iat at 110/115 F, definitely the car is monster with meth.
you cannot feel the difference on the dyno nor the graph will show more hp cause the car will not heat on the dyno with one gear, down the road or at the track is were you can see the difference, cause the car will heat more with first second third and fourth gear.
your nozzle is tooooo small.
please increase ur nozzle and try with another car on the road with and without meth and post us results.

E55Greasemonkey

Thanks for the info. Are you running a 50/50 mix?

Georgee6086

I am running -40 turbo power wiper fluid, the MSDS spec sheet indicates a 45-50% methonal concentration and 50-55% water. So the mix is some where near 50/50.

I benched flowed my nozzel and it flowed approx 115ml in 10 seconds with my 150psi pump. So maybe check to see how much your nozzel is actually flowing

After my runs I would pull over right away to check the heat on the surge tanks just by putting my hand on them and they were both equally cool, front to back, left to right.

I will be adding a #1-3 nozzel before the supercharger to keep it cool, it was getting really hot after the runs.

E55greasemonkey, if you do pull the blower off again I would recommend the Denroll position just for the sheer fact that you can change the nozzels soo easily. Just make sure you drill it dead nuts center, that was my biggest fear because if it's off to one side I don't think the other half of the motor will get any spray if it's not centered.

Also As I mentioned in a previous post that I am spraying manualy. I would start to spray after 3500 rpm at wot only and did not get any bog. When you nail it from a dig your getting instant boost so maybe your spraying to early in your rpm range. I read others were also getting bog if they started spraying too early in the rpm so they added the zeixtronics (or something) to control the meth pump.

In my case I think the meth is doing its job although my times were not that impressive. It did increase my mph. Now it's time to Learn how to drive this sled.

rockthemullet

I get bog down low and right after shifts. I'll be fitting the Zeitronix control and eliminating the boost referenced control that came with my kit

E55Greasemonkey

rock..grab a bottle of yellow HEET (99% methanol) and mix 10% methanol to water by weight. You'll be pleasantly surprised how much better the car feels with that little bit of mix.

rockthemullet

Yep, once she fires again (likely tomorrow if it doesn't rain), that's the first thing I'll be doing. After reading your findings, I think the benefit is worth the slight decrease in cooling ability

MindBend

For inquiring minds, here's a log of a run with Snow Performance meth on Weistec blower. (nozzle placed after the S/C). Note how the IAT's actually start dropping at the top, and AFR's in sweet (safe) spot. Timing also good.

After chasing IAT temps, I've become a huge fan of the meth! Yes, RBJ, I'd even put it on your turbo car...should be crazy easy now!

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Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

You said "after the S/C"
Pretty sure you meant to say "after the T/B" right?

BagMan

Alright. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a kit.

I was really hoping to avoid pulling the blower, but it doesn't look like that's possible.

My wife's going out of town for a couple of weeks, so I'll have an extra car while I do this and some other stuff.

One question is left: Where do I get the plastic dowels for the supercharger R&R?

Denroll

I went to Ace and had some rods cut in foot long sections.

BagMan

Thanks. What size? 3/8"?

Denroll

I think so. I'll check real quick. I took one of the bolts in and got something slightly smaller in diameter than the threads.

I had a 2x4 that I put across the front of the engine bay that I rested the front of the s/c on when I was lifting it out. By myself using my massive muscles.

BagMan

Haha. Thanks

Denroll

I just checked, it's 1/4 inch. The 3/8 was really close to the diameter of the threads of the bolt I brought in.

BagMan

Thanks D.

Now tell me I can sneak a right angle drill with a stubby bit behind the intake to tap the nozzle...

Denroll

Hmm, that might be possible, but I'd be worried about the shavings. You could put some grease on the bit to help collect the shavings.

BagMan

I'm thinking about stuffing a rag in there and running a shop vac through the other side

Georgee6086

The section you will be drilling is not flat I think it's too risky, if the nozzel is a little off to one side than 1/2 your motor won't get the meth but your iat sensor won't know cuz it's still getting wet. Its too hard too tell if it's perfectly straight at the angle your drilling when the blower is on the car, not enough room, don't risk it just pull it off or buy a converter and drill it when the trannys out.

rockthemullet

I ordered M8 threaded rod from McMaster... cut them in half so I had four total

I would strongly recommend not trying to do this without pulling the blower, I just killed an engine with debris into an intake port

E55Greasemonkey

Just to update my setup... I finally have it working to my satisfaction, mostly. I have settled on a DO3 post-IC and a DO1 pre SC (after TB) with the pump pressure set to maximum. I know what some of the opipnions are here, but my car, and my setup, cannot handle any more water. Going to a larger nozzle means then, adding more meth,and I don't need more fuel, considering I am not removing any from the tune. I am running a 15% meth/85% distilled water mix and will try a 20/80 mix when this tank runs out. I have tested both the stock IAT location as well as my relocated IAT sensor in the surge tank elbow. Both show the same results, with the only exception seeming that the stock IAT location will hold a lower temp slightly longer after letting off the boost, which is inconsequential. In the extreme Florida heat and humidity, I am managing to hold 20F over ambient on a 1-2-3 gear pull. Today was 92F outside and temps held to 112F. On a hotter day, 98F outside the temps held at 118F. On both days turning the system off showing IATs hitting between 150-160F. My A/F with meth on seems to hover around 10.9-11.2. With meth off I cannot watch the gauge to get a good reading as the car seems to start adding fuel after 120F or so. My base (canned) tune is slightly rich, hovering around 11.3-11.4 in more moderate outside temps (80's).

I had a short 8" stainless line made for my post IC nozzle, then added a check valve on the end. The pre-SC line is longer (18") and I will also order a shorter line for it and either move my solenoid closer (on the firewall near the intercooler outlet) or simply run both the check valve and solenoid. This has helped with the labored engine restart after shutting the car off after a run.

Turning the progressive part of the controller "off" (thanks hulk!) seems to work best. I did have to turn the "on" dial around 9 PSI as I was getting injection at part throttle and part load, at too low RPMs (~2000rpm) ..This is where the progressive controller alone does not let me fine tune the injection where I want it, I had to compromise with a higher initial "on" setting.

I am looking forward to my next track outing when the weather cools. My last run at 65F ambient started me at the lights around 120F and 155F through the traps. I felt the car pull timing as soon as I left the lights...the car felt "flat" but still ran 11.61@120.7mph. With the meth now working, I should see 85F or so max throughout the 1/4.

The only problem is, now that the IAT's are under control, I am considering added a 168 crank pulley...I've been eyeing the new Weistec pulley...Which may start a vicious circle of fighting IAT's again, and dialing the system back in for the higher boost. It just never ends does it?