A Day with TrackMasters At Laguna Seca
06-27-2011, 02:11 PM
#26
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: MBworld
Posts: 20,943
Received 744 Likes
on
725 Posts
bone stock E55 AMG
where's ur video sun?? 
Awesome Awesome Awesome! I was just there this weekend! I ran with Speed Ventures and I ran in the "Intermediate" group. Was going to jump to the "Advanced" group but decided to stick in the same group so I can jump in my friends' cars for rides and vice versa! It was an ABSOLUTE BLAST! Definitely one of THE BEST track experiences ever and I will DEFINITELY go again! We should roll together sometime! I think it would be awesome! 
***EDIT***
I ran on another set of stock wheels with Toyo R888's and they were AWESOME. Also had the car aligned and corner balanced the day before the track. These two things along with the coils definitely helped the car out A LOT. I'll let you know the next time I'm thinkin about rollin out there and if it's possible, would love for you to roll also! I think it'd definitely be a fun time with a fellow AMG'er!
***EDIT***
***EDIT***
I ran on another set of stock wheels with Toyo R888's and they were AWESOME. Also had the car aligned and corner balanced the day before the track. These two things along with the coils definitely helped the car out A LOT. I'll let you know the next time I'm thinkin about rollin out there and if it's possible, would love for you to roll also! I think it'd definitely be a fun time with a fellow AMG'er!
***EDIT***
06-27-2011, 03:42 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 6,725
Received 558 Likes
on
368 Posts
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Gorgeous stuff John. Loving Flint Grey more and more every day.
Those titanium shims from Evosport protect the calipers from heat? I plan to eventually replace my rotors with Evosport units, as they're cheaper than factory rotors, and better.
Those titanium shims from Evosport protect the calipers from heat? I plan to eventually replace my rotors with Evosport units, as they're cheaper than factory rotors, and better.
06-27-2011, 11:37 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
11 Posts
2007 E63 w/P30 and Eurotech CF Diffuser
Yes the Ti shims act as an insulator between the pad and the pistons to avoid over heating the fluid. Not sure I had too much problem with that, but some. Race cars use Ti brake pistons so less of the heat makes it to the fluid.
There are also rotors that are coated with Titanium Oxide for racing applications and for heavy vehicles. The heat does not transfer to the rotor nearly as much, but the rotor surface gets incredibly hot... And as a result sheds heat much faster.
Check these out, http://www.reddevilbrakes.com/page/page/1001014.htm
Also look at the break in procedure on the lower left menu. Wild. Note the discussion on brake fluid thermal cycling.. Interesting.
Lastly check out the reduced stopping distances on the fleet vehicles.
Last edited by Jon2007E63P30; 06-27-2011 at 11:40 PM.
11-07-2011, 04:26 PM
#31
MBWorld God!
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: on my way
Posts: 30,655
Received 3,399 Likes
on
2,844 Posts
2012 CLS63
seriously loved this.....thanx for sharing...can't wait to get to a track!
11-07-2011, 05:12 PM
#32
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
04 E55, 96 993tt
Not all of us fall into that category...but yes this forum is more about getting the E55/E63 down the 1320 than around the track. Nice times 1:51's for a car that I've heard described as "driving a hippo thru a mud pit" is decent. Btw, my E55 is no track rat(road track) that is for sure...but that's not what it was designed to do or why I bought it.
However, I am very happy to see people taking theirs out and having fun with them! Once you've done Open Track days its really hard to find too much else that is as much fun(car related). Great post and if your out at Laguna again please share your experience with those of us who love Corners with our full-throttle acceleration
Chad
However, I am very happy to see people taking theirs out and having fun with them! Once you've done Open Track days its really hard to find too much else that is as much fun(car related). Great post and if your out at Laguna again please share your experience with those of us who love Corners with our full-throttle acceleration
Chad
11-07-2011, 05:35 PM
#33
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
04 E55, 96 993tt
Sorry forgot to ask. What pads and fluid were you using? all stock? If so that's even more impressive considering the tonage you are hauling down on a very brake intensive track.
Here's a pic of my under 200hp 157K mileage "Victim" that ran low 1.43's at Laguna. Man I miss that ol 3.2 Carrera. Laguna what a wonderful track to race on.
Again great post Jon.
Chad
Here's a pic of my under 200hp 157K mileage "Victim" that ran low 1.43's at Laguna. Man I miss that ol 3.2 Carrera. Laguna what a wonderful track to race on.
Again great post Jon.
Chad
04-27-2012, 08:46 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
11 Posts
2007 E63 w/P30 and Eurotech CF Diffuser
Yes, stock pads and fluid. To be honest, the MB OEM fluid is really good. The pros giving hot laps at the track never have problems from multiple laps. Most of the problems come from students with poor breaking technique.
Remember, I had 140 compound Hankook RS-3 tires.
By the way, during the Pro AMG Academy, I managed a 1:50.00 in a 2011 E63 and stock tires. To put that in perspective, the fastest lap of the whole weekend by a student was a 1:47.1 in and SLS (I did a 1:47.2 in the SLS). In the same condition, the pro instructor did a 1:40.xx in the SLS on a cold morning track.
Like your Carrera!
Remember, I had 140 compound Hankook RS-3 tires.
By the way, during the Pro AMG Academy, I managed a 1:50.00 in a 2011 E63 and stock tires. To put that in perspective, the fastest lap of the whole weekend by a student was a 1:47.1 in and SLS (I did a 1:47.2 in the SLS). In the same condition, the pro instructor did a 1:40.xx in the SLS on a cold morning track.
Like your Carrera!
07-02-2012, 09:21 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
08 E63 AMG
For those on the PL, this is a copy and paste.
So the night before the event and I am getting my stuff ready. Figured I would bring what I needed in case my rear pads needed replacing. Then I started putting on my R-s3 track tires (I only live 45min from the track), checked the rear brakes and decided they needed changing NOW. Actually very easy. The only tools I needed were a screw driver and small hammer. Knock out 2 pins, push back the pads, replace, put back the retaining clip and pins. I did remember to avoid over flowing the brake fluid in the reserviour. Spent 30minutes trying to remember where the PBOX was stashed. Filled out self tech forms and liability waiver. Sacked out.
Got to the track at 7am. Paid my fee and got placed into the lowest group labeled as "intermediate".
I decided to pay for a driving instructor that day. Jonathan Frost, who works at Skip Barber and was one of my instructors at the AMG Academy Advanced class in Nov 2009. It was not cheap. It was well worth it. frostyspeed@yahoo.com
The first session was slow. I will say that I picked up from the AMG Academy experience faster than I would have thought. The adrenalin was so high my left foot started to shake. Like being up un a 24ft ladder without a safety line. What was interesting was that learning the basic line was pretty quick. However, by far the biggest benefit of the instructor is making you think that extra second ahead of where you would normally be thinking. That is HUGE. The secondary benefit was he decided I should be in the faster "mixed" group and simply made it happen with the event organizers (Track Masters, Doug Gale).
The second session is a 18 minute video and not the most exciting. The smoke in the background is a controlled burn for fire fighting pratice. There was a lot of traffic which was a bit intimidating. Plus, you don't try to pass a Miata when they are trying to pass someone else. I am also trying to learn my line. One of the holdups was a convertable Mazerati which would hold up the Miata in the turns but was way to fast on the straight. At about 8:10, the Miata gets by in turn 4. We have to wait to get by, the thing has enough HP to hold me and the Porsche off for the front straight, but they are looking in their mirrors and start to over drive in turn 2. The Porsche takes him between 3 and 4 (10:10) and I take him coming out of 4. Now I am keeping up with the Porsche and he starts over driving. At 11:53 he uses the 4 wheel drive to put down 4 black marks in turn 2. He starts overdriving and at 13:25 totally misses turn 11 and gives me the point by. Yes!!! I am starting to get comfortable. The checkered waves at 15:29, not quite enough time to catch the Miata.
So now the third session.. The Rx7 in front is driven by an idiot we will see again later in a Cadillac STS. At 1:45 a Porsche passes me out of turn 11. Watch the RX7 move out on him at 1:51. At 2:10 the Porsche passes, and the RX7 driver comes and bad mouths him for it!!! Idiot. I get past him out of 4 and cook turn 5 a little. Me and Jonathan were busy complaining about this guy than driving (attention to the task is SO important). At 4:13 I get another point by from a Mustang. For the rest of the session I am effectively solo on the track, nothing in my mirrors, and time for focus on the proper line and technique.
Fourth Session. "I can't believe I caught an Exige!!!! Glad we have it on video". We look up and the damn camera was off. So really, I did catch him before he caught up with the old M3. Really! But then the checker comes out. Lap times now down to 1:51.86.
Final Session. Starts out with me letting by a GT3 out of the pit we thought we would hold up. At the end of the first lap (1:38) you can see that turns out not to be the case. We get held up by a Cayman for a lap. The GT3 takes on the front straight (3:40) and I take him after turn 4 (4:20). Now here I am chasing down a Porsche GT3. Between 5 and 6 we think he was letting off a bit for the sound measurement, and with an equal launch from 11 he would pull on me. We did a couple laps of this, but I finally got a good exit from 11, kept with him (7:18), filled his mirrors in 2, and got the point by out of 5. Yeah baby!!! The track is all mine again until 11:54 where I catch a NSX! I would have passed on the front straight, but he was to far to the inside and I did not want to pass on the outside (13:08). He finally gives way as we enter 5 (13:53). Now (14:35) I catch up with 2 guys held up by the same idiot that was driving the RX7 but now he is in a caddy STS. One of the Porsches points me by out of 11 (14:57) because he has gotten frustrated, I have passed him before, and he wanted to see how I dealt with this idiot. The high HP Porsche gets by, and I should have been able to pass easier than I did because I was worried he would come over. He did a bit (15:11), but with Jonathan urging me, I got by and then watched him in the mirror get totally out of shape in 2. After that, we were both gone. But now I am on the tail of another Porsche. Watch him drive his mirrors through 5 (15:51) and 8 (16:22 - he turned in way early). I taste blood and push too hard out of 11 (16:55), but the checkered flag saves him. I did my fastest lap of the day, a 1:50.88.
I had a blast!!!
Lessons learned and other info:
1. People do not know how to use their brakes. I made up tons of distance on everyone under braking. The GT3 in particular. I understood this the first time I got a hot lap in Vegas, I learned how finally with Jonathans help and I got less fade than at Thunderhill.
2. People do not know the right line. The 2 I found in particular were the late apex on 8 going into the corckscrew and 6 exit where staying right allows you to put power down sooner. To a lesser extent, the exit from 2 people tended to finish the turn late where I was more straightened out and was applying power before the apex.
3. Turn 5 is more complex than it looks. You are judging entry/exit speed based on a flat turn, but it turns up left and banks. Turn out a little sooner and apply power sooner. The turn tends to push you back to the left and compression gives traction.
4. Turn 1 falling away full throttle takes confidence. I did it once and was so pleased I did not get on the brakes fast enough. Session 5, 9:25, I hit 120MPH. Then look at my screwed up turn 2. I could probably hit the 120 and do the turn correctly if I was totally focused.
5. The paint on our calipers turns permanently bronze when heated with track temps.
6. I NEVER went into limp mode. Temps were 75F. Engine oil temps 129C worst case.
7. I did not turn off traction control, I used S, manually down shifted in turns 2, 5, and 11 to be in the right gear to exit. Never went past 4th gear. Note that a blinking traction control light was rare due to the limited slip and the very sticky tires. Plus, I was getting MUCH better at modulating throttle again thanks to Jonathan.
8. Doug Gale and TrackMasters is a class event. 2 - 458, 2 - 430, a CLK63BS (in the advanced group), a Lambo convertable, Mazerati, tons of Porsches (I call them "victims").
9. Almost forgot. Tommy Kendall drove this track in a C63, with me and another person. Both TK and I are big guys, and he did it in a 1:44.xx. Knowing what it took me to do the 1:50.88, TK is super human. Incredible.
I just wasted my morning at work. Hope you enjoyed.
So the night before the event and I am getting my stuff ready. Figured I would bring what I needed in case my rear pads needed replacing. Then I started putting on my R-s3 track tires (I only live 45min from the track), checked the rear brakes and decided they needed changing NOW. Actually very easy. The only tools I needed were a screw driver and small hammer. Knock out 2 pins, push back the pads, replace, put back the retaining clip and pins. I did remember to avoid over flowing the brake fluid in the reserviour. Spent 30minutes trying to remember where the PBOX was stashed. Filled out self tech forms and liability waiver. Sacked out.
Got to the track at 7am. Paid my fee and got placed into the lowest group labeled as "intermediate".
I decided to pay for a driving instructor that day. Jonathan Frost, who works at Skip Barber and was one of my instructors at the AMG Academy Advanced class in Nov 2009. It was not cheap. It was well worth it. frostyspeed@yahoo.com
The first session was slow. I will say that I picked up from the AMG Academy experience faster than I would have thought. The adrenalin was so high my left foot started to shake. Like being up un a 24ft ladder without a safety line. What was interesting was that learning the basic line was pretty quick. However, by far the biggest benefit of the instructor is making you think that extra second ahead of where you would normally be thinking. That is HUGE. The secondary benefit was he decided I should be in the faster "mixed" group and simply made it happen with the event organizers (Track Masters, Doug Gale).
The second session is a 18 minute video and not the most exciting. The smoke in the background is a controlled burn for fire fighting pratice. There was a lot of traffic which was a bit intimidating. Plus, you don't try to pass a Miata when they are trying to pass someone else. I am also trying to learn my line. One of the holdups was a convertable Mazerati which would hold up the Miata in the turns but was way to fast on the straight. At about 8:10, the Miata gets by in turn 4. We have to wait to get by, the thing has enough HP to hold me and the Porsche off for the front straight, but they are looking in their mirrors and start to over drive in turn 2. The Porsche takes him between 3 and 4 (10:10) and I take him coming out of 4. Now I am keeping up with the Porsche and he starts over driving. At 11:53 he uses the 4 wheel drive to put down 4 black marks in turn 2. He starts overdriving and at 13:25 totally misses turn 11 and gives me the point by. Yes!!! I am starting to get comfortable. The checkered waves at 15:29, not quite enough time to catch the Miata.
So now the third session.. The Rx7 in front is driven by an idiot we will see again later in a Cadillac STS. At 1:45 a Porsche passes me out of turn 11. Watch the RX7 move out on him at 1:51. At 2:10 the Porsche passes, and the RX7 driver comes and bad mouths him for it!!! Idiot. I get past him out of 4 and cook turn 5 a little. Me and Jonathan were busy complaining about this guy than driving (attention to the task is SO important). At 4:13 I get another point by from a Mustang. For the rest of the session I am effectively solo on the track, nothing in my mirrors, and time for focus on the proper line and technique.
Fourth Session. "I can't believe I caught an Exige!!!! Glad we have it on video". We look up and the damn camera was off. So really, I did catch him before he caught up with the old M3. Really! But then the checker comes out. Lap times now down to 1:51.86.
Final Session. Starts out with me letting by a GT3 out of the pit we thought we would hold up. At the end of the first lap (1:38) you can see that turns out not to be the case. We get held up by a Cayman for a lap. The GT3 takes on the front straight (3:40) and I take him after turn 4 (4:20). Now here I am chasing down a Porsche GT3. Between 5 and 6 we think he was letting off a bit for the sound measurement, and with an equal launch from 11 he would pull on me. We did a couple laps of this, but I finally got a good exit from 11, kept with him (7:18), filled his mirrors in 2, and got the point by out of 5. Yeah baby!!! The track is all mine again until 11:54 where I catch a NSX! I would have passed on the front straight, but he was to far to the inside and I did not want to pass on the outside (13:08). He finally gives way as we enter 5 (13:53). Now (14:35) I catch up with 2 guys held up by the same idiot that was driving the RX7 but now he is in a caddy STS. One of the Porsches points me by out of 11 (14:57) because he has gotten frustrated, I have passed him before, and he wanted to see how I dealt with this idiot. The high HP Porsche gets by, and I should have been able to pass easier than I did because I was worried he would come over. He did a bit (15:11), but with Jonathan urging me, I got by and then watched him in the mirror get totally out of shape in 2. After that, we were both gone. But now I am on the tail of another Porsche. Watch him drive his mirrors through 5 (15:51) and 8 (16:22 - he turned in way early). I taste blood and push too hard out of 11 (16:55), but the checkered flag saves him. I did my fastest lap of the day, a 1:50.88.
I had a blast!!!
Lessons learned and other info:
1. People do not know how to use their brakes. I made up tons of distance on everyone under braking. The GT3 in particular. I understood this the first time I got a hot lap in Vegas, I learned how finally with Jonathans help and I got less fade than at Thunderhill.
2. People do not know the right line. The 2 I found in particular were the late apex on 8 going into the corckscrew and 6 exit where staying right allows you to put power down sooner. To a lesser extent, the exit from 2 people tended to finish the turn late where I was more straightened out and was applying power before the apex.
3. Turn 5 is more complex than it looks. You are judging entry/exit speed based on a flat turn, but it turns up left and banks. Turn out a little sooner and apply power sooner. The turn tends to push you back to the left and compression gives traction.
4. Turn 1 falling away full throttle takes confidence. I did it once and was so pleased I did not get on the brakes fast enough. Session 5, 9:25, I hit 120MPH. Then look at my screwed up turn 2. I could probably hit the 120 and do the turn correctly if I was totally focused.
5. The paint on our calipers turns permanently bronze when heated with track temps.
6. I NEVER went into limp mode. Temps were 75F. Engine oil temps 129C worst case.
7. I did not turn off traction control, I used S, manually down shifted in turns 2, 5, and 11 to be in the right gear to exit. Never went past 4th gear. Note that a blinking traction control light was rare due to the limited slip and the very sticky tires. Plus, I was getting MUCH better at modulating throttle again thanks to Jonathan.
8. Doug Gale and TrackMasters is a class event. 2 - 458, 2 - 430, a CLK63BS (in the advanced group), a Lambo convertable, Mazerati, tons of Porsches (I call them "victims").
9. Almost forgot. Tommy Kendall drove this track in a C63, with me and another person. Both TK and I are big guys, and he did it in a 1:44.xx. Knowing what it took me to do the 1:50.88, TK is super human. Incredible.
I just wasted my morning at work. Hope you enjoyed.
I'm thinking ofsigning up for on on October ~~ Just wondering can you not over take
any cars?????
07-03-2012, 03:35 PM
#36
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
93' Ultrasonic Blue Mica LS6/T56 RX7 R1 weekend/ 2007 4Runner V8/ 08' prius
Awesome work at Laguna! Although it looks easy, it's a difficult track to master.
The RS3's are very good street tires, they are just as good as most r-compounds out there. Better than toyo R888's. What sizes did you run? I'm surprised you ran OEM brakes because you could have late braked even more in the corners if you ran some pads, lines & fluids.
I enjoyed watching the videos, it's a true test to get out there and put the car through it's paces on the road course.
The RS3's are very good street tires, they are just as good as most r-compounds out there. Better than toyo R888's. What sizes did you run? I'm surprised you ran OEM brakes because you could have late braked even more in the corners if you ran some pads, lines & fluids.
I enjoyed watching the videos, it's a true test to get out there and put the car through it's paces on the road course.
07-04-2012, 03:32 AM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
11 Posts
2007 E63 w/P30 and Eurotech CF Diffuser
Awesome work at Laguna! Although it looks easy, it's a difficult track to master.
The RS3's are very good street tires, they are just as good as most r-compounds out there. Better than toyo R888's. What sizes did you run? I'm surprised you ran OEM brakes because you could have late braked even more in the corners if you ran some pads, lines & fluids.
I enjoyed watching the videos, it's a true test to get out there and put the car through it's paces on the road course.
The RS3's are very good street tires, they are just as good as most r-compounds out there. Better than toyo R888's. What sizes did you run? I'm surprised you ran OEM brakes because you could have late braked even more in the corners if you ran some pads, lines & fluids.
I enjoyed watching the videos, it's a true test to get out there and put the car through it's paces on the road course.
I really never had any problems on brakes. I have all the good pieces as you may have read above and on some other threads. But, let's be honest Susie Stoddard does 10 seconds faster than I do on this track in an SLS. Changing my brake setup ultimately is second or third order on my track time during a 20 minute session.
